View Full Version : Will Aikido affect my Wing Chun?
sticky fingers
09-01-2001, 08:00 AM
I'm thinking of joining a Shodokan Aikido school which is closeby due to a lack of WC schools here (Osaka Japan). Does anyone know if my WC will be affected by learning aikido? If so, how?
She offered her honour,
I honoured her offer;
so all through the night,
I was honour and offer!!
kungfu cowboy
09-01-2001, 08:33 AM
The neural pathways that are involved by Aikido practice are not the same ones that will be formed, reinforced and trained by practicing wing chun. Splitting your training between more than one art reduces time spent on both, therefore skill in both grows at a slower rate in general. Kirk out. :p
Does the aikido dojo emphasize connection with the opponents center of gravity and breaking his balance rather than just repetition of technique? Do they have good training methods that will develop your ability to feel imbalance, create connection, root external force, and destroy body structure? If so, then you are accomplishing the same goals as in WC, but with a different toolbox. It depends upon what you want to learn and how you want to learn it because some WC schools don't teach or develop the high level skills.
Dzu
whippinghand
09-01-2001, 11:14 AM
If they don't follow the same principles, then one of them must be wrong. You have to decide which one.
Kristoffer
09-01-2001, 11:27 AM
wH- that post was stupid man.. Why would one of them be WRONG? moron...
~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"
whippinghand
09-01-2001, 11:40 AM
uh-huh...
Anarcho
09-01-2001, 01:04 PM
Designing a functioning train and designing a functioning aircraft also require you to follow different principles...I guess one of them must be wrong. It's probably the airplanes. Stupid Boeing.
Sharky
09-01-2001, 03:05 PM
WH - is wing chun the only correct way to fight?
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"What you wan' cry fo? You know that my hammer is heavy and it got kick like tae kwon do, now you gwarn die slow... I'ma show you how to stretch a m0ther****er if you wanna watch tae bo"
HuangKaiVun
09-01-2001, 04:13 PM
sticky fingers, what do you hope to gain from aikido that wing chun doesn't provide you?
wing chun is the correct way to fight for me
:) for a whippinghandesque type answer
Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in
He said there are a lack of WC schools in Japan where he is living, not that he prefers Aikido over WC.
Neither martial art is inherently superior. There is an efficient and economical method of attacking the human body and sometimes even WC people don't do this despite their claims.
Dzu
chongnoi
09-01-2001, 06:31 PM
What is most important in studying a martial art is not so much the style. What is important is finding a good teacher and a good school that you can learn from and are comfortable at. And are you learning what you want to learn. If you are interested in realistic self-defense/fightiing then is the teacher teaching that? And is it realistic and effective? There are good Wing chun fighters and there are good Aikido fighters. there are good wing chun schools and there are bad wing chun schools, same with Aikido. 99% of the public sits around getting fat and watching TV all the time, so IMHO anybody, spending there evenings working out in any Martial art is an accomplishment and better than nothing. Of course I am particular to Wing Chun, but I have seen some really bad wing Chun schools. If you decide to study Aikido, I hope your training goes well for you and you study hard and completely immense yourself in the art and learn as much as you can. Good Fortune in your search and training.
Printer
09-01-2001, 08:15 PM
I have just recently taken up Wing Chun.
I took both TKD and Hapkido in my youth (over 14 years ago). I am still asked in class if I had any prior MA experience. To which they reply: I can tell by the way you punch.
So as to how it will effect you it may be long lasting.
"I feel your pain" as to wanting to train while in Japan, even in their style. I spent a year and a half on Okinawa and a short time in South Korea. MA was everywhere and is in almost everything they did.
Good luck.
lotus kick
09-01-2001, 09:33 PM
Life only offers one path towards happyness. Taking more than one path will not reach the goal any faster. you must deside which ONE path will lead you to your happyness. Any other path is WRONG for you.
lotus kick
09-01-2001, 09:36 PM
he who points, are guilty three fold.
"MORON"
whippinghand
09-02-2001, 01:01 AM
You guys don't get it...
Stranger
09-02-2001, 05:58 AM
See my post on Wing Chun and the SAS on this forum. The wing chun/aiki blend has found support among several elite units.
I don't get mad.
I get stabby.
anerlich
09-02-2001, 07:37 AM
Doing Aikido may affect your Wing Chun. It may even affect it for the better. There have been no scientific trials. Have there?
Doing nothing will probably affect your Wing Chun worse then doing Aikido will. Go for it. If you don't like it or it's screwing you up (IMHO pretty unlikely), stop.
Kristoffer
09-02-2001, 08:40 AM
Im sorry for my last post, but when i started posting on the WC bord not long ago. This whipping hands figure started flaming me with topics like BAN K, and i didnt even post anything to him or anything!! :( :mad: so I still think he is a moron. I will say that to anyone that thinks that 'their' way is the ONLY and the BESt way to fight, and putting down all other martial arts... I may think that what I do is god **** effective and great, and that its better FOR ME, to do. But to put down martial arts like he do reminds me of my mental stage when I was 9, or lower. Grow up
~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"
Anarcho
09-02-2001, 12:26 PM
I know you are, you said you are.
But what am I?
sticky fingers
09-02-2001, 04:19 PM
What responses!! After wading through the crap, it is obvious that some people only read the subject heading and ignore the rest of the post; and some people seem to be able to talk a lot on something they have no idea about.
An empty kettle makes the most noise.
Before anyone brands me a WC traitor or attempts to guide me down the One True Path to Eternal Happiness, let me just say that WC is my main art which I don't intend to lose. But because I now live in Osaka, there aren't any WC schools I can join. There are however lots of Japanese arts available. As someone said, doing something is better than sitting an your ass. As aikido shares similar principles to WC, I am asking people who HAVE EXPERIENCE in both arts. If it complements WC, then perfect I'll join tomorrow. If it affects it adversely, I might still join but try to blend it with WC in some way. Old habits die hard, but WC habits are good habits.
She offered her honour,
I honoured her offer;
so all through the night,
I was honour and offer!!
sunkuen
09-02-2001, 06:16 PM
Sticky fingers,to help make a better decision,may I ask how the principles of wing chun and aikido are related to each other?
kungfu cowboy
09-02-2001, 06:39 PM
Try Shorinji Kempo (http://www.shorinjikempo.or.jp/wsko/) Good stuff!
They both attack the opponent's center of gravity and balance. They both use rooting, alignment of external vector forces, connection with the opponent's center, refined sensitivity, and the body's lines and circles to generate and neutralize force.
Dzu
wingchunalex
09-02-2001, 10:47 PM
the assiistant instructor at my school did jodo and akido for a lone time before he started wing chun, he has been doining wing chun for 9 years now. i've been doing wc for 6, and he integrates them both so well. he still flips me all over the place. akido is good for your spirit, becomeing a better human being is the purpose of all good martial arts training, so i say go for it. :)
know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu
whippinghand
09-03-2001, 08:01 AM
I don't remember putting down any martial art in THIS thread....
Perhaps, my English isn't so good...
However, Sunkuen poses a very interesting question, somewhat related to my post.
Anarcho
09-03-2001, 02:11 PM
There is no other martial art.
Shadowboxer
09-03-2001, 10:13 PM
Aikido and WC differ in a basic way. WC teaches you to attack the centerline. Aikido teaches to avoid and "get off the line". Aikido is more circular, whereas WC is straight/angling. They both seek to be soft and not utilize force vs. force. If you decide to learn Aikido you will learn wrist arts, for control and submissions. You will also learn how to tumble and fall in any direction. These 2 things are what I took with me from 2.5 yrs in Aikido. However, WC is so fast that it is nearly impossible for me to use any of the wrist arts on any of my sihing. WC just attacks differently. But, since you are in Japan, perhaps you can find a harder style which trains with strikes(atemi).
Wei Sui
09-04-2001, 06:27 AM
wing chun has the glue, that is the missing piece...and the key!
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Dai yut tow dai :)
aikido will NOT mess up your wingchun. KARATE or TKD WILL because they use only HARD power not soft.
good aikido is soft and has a lot of chinna, throws, joint locks. That actually goes very well with your wc because wc is also soft.
Nice combo, i never thought of that. Many wc lineages dont do chin na, so this is a good idea. You can also trian shuai chiao to any style .
wujidude
09-10-2001, 06:27 PM
Given that you're already experienced with WC, Adhesive Carpals, then you should be able to practice aikido and integrate it with your WC without losing your WC. Both arts are concerned, nay obsessed, with the opponent's center. I've practiced aikido, but am just a beginner in WC. Already I've found some congruence between aikido's irimi (entering) techniques and WC. Aikido also practices footwork to get off the angle of attack like WC (aikido takes the steps ****her to move around the attacker in tenkan or blending techniques).
Additionally, you might find WC improving your atemi or striking techniques, which are woefully underpracticed in most aikido schools but which are often necessary to distract or stun the opponent before applying the hold.
Depending on the length of time that you're in Japan, you might want to consider a Daito-ryu aikijujutsu school (Daito-ryu is perhaps the major root influence on the martial techniques of aikido). Inquire on the e-budo.com discussion board for the whereabouts of a good instructor/school near you (you might have to travel for Daito-ryu).
Good luck.
Shadowboxer
09-10-2001, 10:20 PM
WC teaches you to fight aggressively and sometimes viciously. Aikido teaches you not to fight but to blend in harmony. IMHO you will "undo" your WC training if you begin to train in Aikido. But it's better than doing no MA at all. So...??
sticky fingers
09-14-2001, 08:34 PM
Much better replies since my last post. The reasons why I'm attracted to aikido is that avoids using force and strength- quite a difference to the other Japanese arts. The dojo also caters to gaijin (foreigners) because there are classes in the mornings. Most gaijin are English teachers and usually work until 9pm so they can't attend the evening classes. There is also a shorinji kempo dojo near my place. I don't know anything about that artexcept that they also punch with a vertical fist. Probably not in the same way as WC though. Kung fu cowboy- can u tell me more about it?
I'm also contemplating jujitsu but haven't found a dojo close by yet. Decisions, decisions
The difference between unclear war and nuclear war is in the way you use the U.N...
unclaimed effort
09-14-2001, 08:56 PM
Shadowboxer, you sure you know what you are talking about?
"IMHO you will "undo" your WC training if you begin to train in Aikido."
Aikido can aid some of Wing Chun's missing gaps. Also gives you a different perspective so you can know what to do if against an Aikidoka. Aikido can help you break your fall if someone keeps throwing you around. Also reverse throws being applied, with some additional Chin-Na to your Wing Chun.
"WC teaches you to fight aggressively and sometimes viciously. "
Says who?? You teach yourself to fight agressively, the art teaches you to fight.
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What is a tree without it's roots? What is a martial art without its basics?
wingchunwsl
09-14-2001, 11:14 PM
sticky fingers, go for it. aikido is better than nothing.
Shadowboxer
09-15-2001, 03:54 AM
Yes, I know what I'm talking about. In a previous post, I said the 2 things I took from Aikido training was the wrist arts (Chin Na) and tumbling. No one should be throwing you if your WC is there. By aggressively/viciously, I mean controlling the center line, chain punches, eye jabs,neck breaks,groin kicks, arm/leg breaks,attacking the neck,etc. None of this is in Aikido. Sticky Fingers will be training new responses. This is why I said he will undo his WC training, although he will notice some borrowed WC techniques. Try to find a Daito-ryu school if you can, as I believe they are a harder style with battlefield techniques still in the system.
unclaimed effort
09-15-2001, 06:41 AM
Different lineage, different focus. My bad, Shadowboxer. My instructor teaches me Daito Ryu
Aikibudo too, but he incorporates it into Aikido as the main art.
"No one should be throwing you if your WC is there."
You wanta bet? Also, I want to note you said NO ONE.
"By aggressively/viciously, I mean controlling the center line, chain punches, eye jabs,neck breaks,groin kicks, arm/leg breaks,attacking the neck,etc."
I understand what you mean, but I also believe that Wing Chun does not have a focus on "breaking" in particular. Wing Chun is not an art that relies on the initial damage of the attack. Rather than to do attacks continually to break your opponent pyscologically ( I can't spell this)... as you advance on him closer and closer with each attack then he starts backing up you step up some more, and continued. Tell me what you have to think of this. (This has nothing to do with anything, but you were on the topic of what Wing Chun does to an opponent so I brought it up)
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What is a tree without it's roots? What is a martial art without its basics?
whippinghand
09-15-2001, 09:22 AM
Perhaps, that is Wing Chun as YOU know it. That's not the Wing Chun that I understand.
Aikido also attacks the centerline, but not necessarily with the same methods used in WC (although there is some overlap). You cannot throw someone or joint lock them without first connecting to their center.
Dzu
whippinghand
09-16-2001, 05:13 AM
you don't need to connect with their centre first, although that is helpful. As in Aikido, as you suggested, WC also attacks the centreline.
Against aikidoka that exhibit 'good uke' syndrome, it probabaly isn't necessary since they are almost doing everything for you.
Against people with some amount of skill or even clueless beginners, control of their center is needed to break their structure or overcome the use of greater physical strength. IMHO if you don't connect to their center first you don't have control of their body. Although you may have different experiences, this is based upon my own experience within Aikido against non-compliant partners.
Dzu
whippinghand
09-16-2001, 10:12 PM
Yes, control of the centre is necessary, but that can be achieved, not necessarily by connecting first, but by executing an attack that, in the process, connects to the centre.
If your focus is to connect there first, with an extremely skillful person, you may NEVER connect to his centreline. WC is not the only style that puts focus on it.
I consider attacking with a strike to be connecting with the center, but not all systems, lineages, or instructors teach from this perspective. To some, a strike is just a means to cause physical damage without disrupting the structure, intention, or timing.
Dzu
whippinghand
09-16-2001, 11:34 PM
It's not a matter of perspective, it's a matter of wording.
Structure can be disrupted without control of the centreline, unless that person's structure is optimum (but that you'd have to discuss with Rene)LOL
unclaimed effort
09-17-2001, 04:01 AM
"Perhaps, that is Wing Chun as YOU know it. That's not the Wing Chun that I understand."
Can you tell me who you are talking to? Both me and ShadowBoxer have mentioned breaking.
If you were talking to me, then that is the way I see it. We have our own ways to use the art, so what? Not like i'm gonna start swinging my arm around, and disobey the Wing Chun "controlling the center" strategy.
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What is a tree without it's roots? What is a martial art without its basics?
Shadowboxer
09-17-2001, 09:04 PM
Let me attempt to clarify some things. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "No one". Instead, I should have said it should be very difficult for someone to throw you by good rooting alone...I trained in Seiodkan for a while and I know what to expect as far as throws go and how to not get into a position to be thrown or counter a throw. IMHO, WC seeks to damage the attacker physically not pyschologically(I've got to agree with WH on this one). Fung gerk is for breaking the knee. My sihing work on an arm break/flow drill. There is one neck break, at my level, that is a kwan sao(di-bong and tan) counter to pak da. I haven't even learned the CK or the BJ yet. I'll bet there are more breaks in there as well- right WH?
unclaimed effort
09-18-2001, 05:03 AM
We all have our opinions, I stand by mines. But I can definitely understand your cause and reasoning of that post.
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What is a tree without it's roots? What is a martial art without its basics?
EmptyCup
09-18-2001, 05:15 AM
Any time you take another style it affects your wing chun. In terms of philosophy and theory, it can lead you to revise your prior concepts in a positive way, or lead you to have more confidence in your prior concepts. In terms of the actual techniques themselves, those also muct alter your wing chun if it didn't come from wing chun right? Now whether it is good or bad is a whole different story... ;)
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