Do You Know Your Lineages History ?

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Following on from another thread on this site I would like to ask all the NPM guys on this site if you are familiar with your lineages history and where your Tang Lang comes from ? How important is it to you to know it ? and are you happy to tell others where your Tang Lang comes from ? ( even if they are not of oriental descent )

[holymantis]

hello feelerstrike,
my lineage come's from michael lee kok seng .
and his master was grandmaster wong kam hoong a student of lor kwan yuk

[BeiTangLang]

Yes, I know the history to a point.

The only importance it holds to me is that it is authentic.

I would hate to buy a Jeep & find out later that its really an H2!
(Actually a pretty good analogy)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Basically, yes. How important? Not much. Unless you're an historian I think it's detrimental to get hung up on lineage and such. There are too many arguements about who has the real mantis and who's the lineage holder, blah, blah blah.

Now if your mantis teacher is showing you katas you might want to reconsider.

I really don't care who signs my paycheck, just as long as I get paid.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

I agree with you . Who has the real northern mantis ? Do we really care ? My point is that you need to know where your tang Lang comes from . It means nothing just to say ' we are a northern mantis ' if you have no idea what northern mantis is . Just because you can do a low stance and put your claws up doesnt mean you can mantis box .
There is to much back biting at the moment ( and probably always ) about who has the more original style of mantis . It is about time that people got on with promoting the style as a whole . The very nature of mantis boxing is to adapt . This is where the history side comes in . In the last 100 years alone there has been some great masters who have added into their lineages extra forms etc which they felt will be of use . If they were not then they would not have added them . Does that mean that anyone who then carries on with these forms is nolonger doing mantis style ? NO . The style grows as intended . or else we would all just be doing the couple of forms that WL created . All the past grandmasters have introduced forms into the system to help it grow .
(Going to cause trouble with this comment but it is my opinion)
Except it seems the masters who have continued at the source and havent openly added anything to the system over the last 100 years . PLEASE IF I AM INCORRECT IN THIS THEN I WILL APOLOGIZE AND STAND CORRECTED.
If you are happy with the quality of what you are learning and have a good idea where it came from then you are learning and will hopefully pass on the style . If you do not then it is no more than a sport martial art that imitates an original .

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Sorry nearly forgot in case anyone is interested I study under Shifu Paul Drummond who was the last closed door student of Master Mo Lam who was the adopted nephew of Master Chi Zhu Hun who was taught by the great Fan Xu Dong .;)

[mantis108]

I believe without understanding the tradition (lineage being part of it) there with be no growth. Without the impact of trends, there will be no growth neither. Evolution is what makes an art stay healthy and strong.

I understand that my style, CCK TCPM, came from Classical Tanglang of Liang Xuexiang. It took on a transformation through the efforts of the Late Chiu Chuk Kai. Now at our generation, we are faced with a challange to further our inheritance in order to answer the impact that MMA has posted towards the TCMA community.

I realized that the transformation that took place wasn't about laminating various elements and pieced together a new style rather it is building on the tradition and the legacies of Classical Tanglang. BTW, we are not talking about just forms. We are rather talking about the system as a whole. Base on this, we don't lost focus on that which is Tanglang yet not affraid to explore and address new challanges such as martial sports or even NHB events. BTW, in a society where rule of law is fairly developed and basic human descency can be expected, there is really not much death match challanges to glorify any more. I know there are people who love to live in the past but I for one would rather go forward. Martial arts to me is to educate a person to become human being (perhaps even beyond that) not becoming a killing machine.

I took pride in my tradition and culture. I have no problem in sharing it with anyone. In fact, I will be most gladly to do so. As long as people are willing to listen, I will go through everything with as much detail as possible if asked (you have to pardon the long windness). I can't share anything that I don't understand, other than that anything goes.

Mantis108

[18elders]

nice post 108.

I think lineage should be very important, know where your mantis came from and that it is true mantis.
People pay big bucks to make sure their dog is pure bloodline.
I think students should care about their lineage, if we don't then mantis will keep getting watered down and you will lose its true roots.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

So does that mean the high dollar purebred can beat my mixbreed terrier (pit bull)? :) To me a dog is a dog, either it can hunt or it can't. If it fills the need you got it for it doesn't matter who it's daddy was.

As you can see I'm just different about these things which is why I don't get so upset about WL as others. To each his own. I just don't like the snobbery and elitism that often comes with bloodlines and lineage. Guess I'm just street and always will be.

(edited question into a new thread to preserve this threads integrity)

[18elders]

i think you missed my point

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Yep, you're probably right. That's my problem, comments like that are lost on me. I just don't get it (serious, not being sarcastic).

A few hypotheticals:

You seem extremely satisfied with your training. Reality breaks down and you learn that Master Shr's bio in not true. How do you feel about what you learned at this point?

You know nothing at all about Wing Chun. Someone comes along and says he'll teach you but actually he teaches you CLF. You win many fights and competitions. Then you find out it isn't Wing Chun. Do you value what you have or drop it like a hot potato and run to the nearest Wing Chun school?

I realize lineage is important to most people and it helps to ensure the correct transmission of information. I just question the importance of learning the exact moves of a fighter 450 years ago as opposed to learning the moves of a current fighter (****, I'm sounding like a MMA guy).

IOW, we both have cars. I have a 2002 Ford Thunderbird and you have a 1923 Ford Model T (much closer to the original). Which one is better than the 1969 Corvette Stingray? Depends on what you're into.

[Oso]

wow, great posts from everyone.

you have to be happy with what you are training and feel that if fits you. Lineage can come into play after that is satisfied if you have an interest.

past experience also is a huge factor, I think. For me, having been somewhat bamboozled for 11 years, lineage was a bit higher priority in finding what I wanted to do next. But, if the training didn't feel right then I would have not chosen as I did.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

It is good to hear peoples views on this subject as to me it is important to know your roots . It is more important to make sure that what you are learning is right for you and you are enjoying it . For the style to go forward into the future it is good to have an understanding of its past .