Other lineage seminars

[YongChun]

Has anyone ever gone to a Wing Chun seminar from a lineage other than their own and thought "hey, those guys are pretty good?" Has anyone changed their mind about some lineage that they thought before wasn't good or vice versa?

Ray

[russellsherry]

hi ray among the best i've been to was wong sihun leurngs i even chi sau with him , i trained with stephan chans semminar at hisn kicking skills were unreal , and i brought my own teachear out to oz randy williams here in which i enjoyed the best but maybe i am biased their , peace russellsherry

[Matrix]

Ray,

Why do you ask??
Are you having an identity crisis? ;)

[Vajramusti]

I have gone to quite a few seminars outside of my lineage and also outside of my style.

The purpose was not to search for a better lineage or style but to understand other good POVs, applications and skills.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Matrix
Ray,

Why do you ask??
Are you having an identity crisis? ;)

Just to get a different topic going. It's hard to predict what leads to what. Also to see if people are open to the ideas of other lineages. I'm not having an identity crisis. I think I know who I am. At least I used to.

Ray

[reneritchie]

Every single one of the friendship seminars. From Ray to John to Marty to Benny to Dzu (and anyone I might have missed!), each provided a valuable and appreciated perspective.

Went to Murrillo Bustamante's seminar a couple weeks ago. He rocked.

I don't really care much about the martial backstory of the person who's seminar I'm attending, I just want information that will make me personally better as efficiently as possible.

[Nick Forrer]

Ive been to two Emin Boztepe seminars

Definitley have a higher respect for/understanding of WT now then i did before.

Not allowed to go to anymore though :(

[reneritchie]

Nick - Because of a personal issue between you sifu and Boztepe, or you're not allowed to go to other seminars in general?

I understand the former, out of respect, but the latter would cause me to re-align my affiliations.

I have heard of the latter, but it's just crazy.

If people charge for lessons, they're the same as a gym membership, a pair of jeans, a comic book, a car dealer.

You pay your money, you get to go where you want.

I don't understand why people in martial arts pay others to be dictated to.

If I buy Astonishing X-Men, I can still buy Planetary. If I buy a Ford, I can still walk into a Nissan dealer. If I go to Monster Gym, I can still get a day pass to Gold's.

None of my teachers in any art have done anything ever but encouraged me to check out others, even when there have been interpersonal problems between some of them.

[YongChun]

I know that was kind of old Hong Kong thinking. If you looked at another sifu or went to another person's seminar then they would kick you out of the organization. Even asking a teacher about how his teacher taught him was looked upon like an insult and having a lack of faith in what he taught. It was foreign and backward thinking in my mind. I can see historically people didn't want to give secrets away to the competition and some of that occurs now for business reasons as well. Those who are confident of their art shouldn't have to worry. But in the world of business a part is always the secret information you don't want the competition to get. I'm almost done cracking the secret Kentucky Fried Chicken formula. Salt and pepper are definitely in there.

Ray

[Nick Forrer]

Hi Rene


Originally posted by reneritchie
Nick - Because of a personal issue between you sifu and Boztepe, or you're not allowed to go to other seminars in general?

Actually neither. Boztepe said unless I joined his org I couldnt come to any more - which is i suppose fair enough (from a certain point of view).

[YongChun]

Emin Boztepe told us the same thing. He gives seminars with the practical purpose of growing his organization I concluded.

Ray

[Matrix]

Originally posted by YongChun
I think I know who I am. At least I used to. Hey Ray,
No insult intended. I was just curious as to what sparked the question. I've attended seminars with other lineages. I always meet great people, so that's why I go.

[reneritchie]

I've heard of that. There are 2 schools from the same org within 2 hours of me. The closer one held seminars that anyone and everyone could go to. The further one held seminars closed to everyone but their own org.

The first felt they wanted successful seminars regardless of who came. The second felt that it was their effort and investment and should benefit their people and not others.

In North America, I think the first model will ultimately be more successful.

[captain]

rene,try this then.recently,ive sent 2 requests for the longer sum nung article yet recieved nothing!am i off the christmas list?

russ.

[AmanuJRY]

reneritchie
In North America, I think the first model will ultimately be more successful.

I agree.

But, it's harder to keep the secret techniques a secret that way.:eek: :rolleyes:

[reneritchie]

Captain,

I've received a couple requests for it and responded, but I don't see any from you. PM me your email and I'll send it right off.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by YongChun
Just to get a different topic going. It's hard to predict what leads to what. Also to see if people are open to the ideas of other lineages. Ray,
Last weekend, someone I know gave a seminar in Victoria. Were you there by any chance?

Peace,

[YongChun]

Hi Bill,

I wasn't at the seminar but a couple of students of mine were. They thought the teacher was very good at his Wing Chun and also was a very good teacher. I haven't talked to these people at length about it but the seminar went over very well from what I hear.

Ray

[Matrix]

Originally posted by YongChun
I wasn't at the seminar but a couple of students of mine were. They thought the teacher was very good at his Wing Chun and also was a very good teacher. I haven't talked to these people at length about it but the seminar went over very well from what I hear. Thanks Ray,
I thought the timing of your question was rather interesting. ;)
You see, the teacher in question is my Sifu, and I know that he is very good. I am really pleased that your students enjoyed their time at the seminar. Please send them by best regards. Small world isn't it. :cool:

[Matrix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
The first felt they wanted successful seminars regardless of who came. The second felt that it was their effort and investment and should benefit their people and not others.
Rene,

What do you define as "successful"?
I'm sure that each group has their own reasons for taking the approach that they do, and these reasons may not be as self-evident as one might think.

[reneritchie]

Successful in terms of enough attendance to cover expenses. It is hard to have a full seminar schedule (several times a year) if you go out of pocket on each one. I've know several schools who have ended up stopping seminars because they could not cover the costs and did not want to go outside their own doors for attendees.

Successful also in terms of helping the art in general, as more people could benefit from more exposure and more perspective.

There are levels of responsibility from ourselves to our classmates to our community.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Successful also in terms of helping the art in general, as more people could benefit from more exposure and more perspective.

There are levels of responsibility from ourselves to our classmates to our community. Rene,
I certainly agree. I just asked the question, because, as we know, everyone's idea of "success" is not the same.

Thanks,

[YongChun]

Sometimes seminars can backfire. Sometimes a teacher in wanting to help his students out by exposing them to much higher level people will lose his students that way. I heard one club had 300 students, all happy as could be and then Emin gave a seminar there and subsequently all of them basically quit.

I think for the most part, students with level 1 skill were comparing themselves to someone with level 10 skill and concluding that their Wing Chun approach was no good. Yet within their same lineage there were people willing to challenge Emin.

A skilled guy can walk into most clubs and trash them for example and claim that it's his superior art that's doing it as opposed to his 25,000 hours that he put into his training. It's a marketing trick.

Ray

[Matrix]

Originally posted by YongChun
A skilled guy can walk into most clubs and trash them for example and claim that it's his superior art that's doing it as opposed to his 25,000 hours that he put into his training. It's a marketing trick. Ray,
You make a good point. Also, the "skilled guy" may not be able to teach worth squat, which means he will be ineffective in transferring his skill/knowledge to those same students.

Having said that, we cannot live in isolation. We should not continue to deceive ourselves into believing that we are training in the best possible manner when the facts may say otherwise. Our training needs to stand up on it's own. If the seminar is pure smoke-and-mirrors, the students will soon find that out. The illusion (if it is that) cannot be held for too long before the cracks appear. You have to believe that what your doing can withstand that kind of test, otherwise it's time for some serious soul searching...

I would also say that I would rather be on the path of 25,000 hours to the higher skill level, rather than spending the same amount of time less effectively.

Peace,

[Sam]

James Cama Sifu will be having a seminar in Italy December 26. A future one is set for the U.K. 718 692-2281 Fut Sao Wing Chun Kuen http://futsaoyongchunkuen.com/