will violence result in another rapper dead?

[SevenStar]

At the vibe awards, dr. dre was presented with a liftime achievement award. The presenter was snoop dogg. just before he announced dre's name, someone started causing a commotion. Snoop said over the mic that if anyone had a problem with dre, they had to take it up with him as well. Just as that happened, someone from suge knight's camp hit dre.

Peeps from g-unit, death row and snoop's camp all jumped in the melee. Nashville G-unit artist young buck was arrested for producing a blade and stabbing someone.

[diego]

yes




unfortunatly...but as long as those ****s don't kill any mc's i'm cool with the wack rappers leaving

i mean bush could have died not odb!!!.1

[Vash]

Who's been stabbed?

[SevenStar]

no clue yet.

[FuXnDajenariht]

aah who cares... they've been given too many chances already..

maybe they'll take each other out and hip hop might get some respect again.

[Chang Style Novice]

Maybe not tonight, or this week but it's coming.

Hiphop is huge and violence will always be with us. No telling who or when, but it IS coming.

I'm sorry to say.

[joedoe]

I am not a hip-hop/rap fan at all so I am not familiar with the scene. Can anyone explain to me why this kind of drama seems to occur within this subculture more than with any other music subculture? Just curious

[FuXnDajenariht]

in a word?

ignorance....

there all dooshey douchebags like the black metal crowd burning churches way back when...

they get caught up in their own hype and image...

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
in a word?

ignorance....

there all dooshey douchebags like the black metal crowd burning churches way back when...

they get caught up in their own hype and image...

Euronamis!!!!

[Serpent]

Cos they all gangsta, mizzlefizzle. You know you ain't got no rep if you ain't all about the bullets.

:rolleyes:

[rogue]

I'd go with stupidty, false self importance and the glorification of being a complete and total self destructive moron. 99.9% of that scene just disgusts me. Hip hop needs it's own Spinal Tap but I doubt many of the current crop of performers would get it. The smart ones figured out it's entertainment and a business, the others are living their thug fantasies.

My prediction: Shug is going to get capped.

[Internal Boxer]

ahh when egos collide sparks will fly!

[Kristoffer]

gunit an snoop is all talk. suge has been in prison and has a serious problem with snoop. I'd say the double g is on a loose end here but since he's a police informer he should b safe. I really could'nt care less. But I'd like to see some videos on this comotion on the award.

[red5angel]

I saw the video yesterday, it looked just like any other riot, except with a couple of guys on stage staring like "WTF?!".

[Ray Pina]

You can take the kid out of the ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the kid.

Stupid a$$es. They're making money now and living better than most of us could imagine.
...
One thing I don't get ... all these tough gansters and they need security?

[red5angel]

someone to stop the bullets.....

[Abstract]

Originally posted by rogue
I'd go with stupidty, false self importance and the glorification of being a complete and total self destructive moron. 99.9% of that scene just disgusts me.



As opposed to 99.9% of the MA scene with stupidity, false self importance & the like? And nobody in the MA scene actually ever fights, ironically.

unless you count Bozetep & Chueng...:rolleyes: :p


i mean it all depends on what your vantage point is man....You & most ppl are on the outside looking in when in comes to hip hop culture, the same as others & MA...just hip hop gets more TV time of late

Shug getting capped would be a long time coming.

And they SHOULD have knocked the ISHT outta Dre. He's a B!tch
...he smacks up some chick cuz she says something about his music he didn't like...but i don't recall him EVER stepping to ANY MAN who's said something similar.

[Kristoffer]

here's the vid
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/111504_nw_disturbance_vibe_awards.html

I feel embarresed for Quincy who's on the stage. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Snoop or Dre.

[red5angel]

i mean it all depends on what your vantage point is man....

not really. We weren't discussing this sort of behaviour in general, we were talking about this sort of behaviour in a certain slice of the population, in this case the Rap/hip hop/R&B crowd. This sort of behaviour, from anyone is just pathetic, but in some cultures or sub cultures it's more apt to happen, usually due to ignorance and machismo.

[rogue]

i mean it all depends on what your vantage point is man....You & most ppl are on the outside looking in when in comes to hip hop culture, the same as others & MA...just hip hop gets more TV time of late
Hey, I wasn't always this old. I do get the hip hop culture because there really isn't one anymore. It's a bunch of people getting suckered by marketing and crooked record companies. Some of the talent gets that, most don't. Like the hippies, punks, metal heads and any other group that gets big enough to squeeze a buck out of. Same as it ever was.

[FuXnDajenariht]

yea...i dont even listen to hip hop anymore. i liiive in the middle of brooklyn. i grew up on the stuff up to a few years ago. but it isn't even about the music anymore, since probably the mid 90's and the quality shows it.... the "ice age" as they call it got old before it even started. frankly im tired of them flaunting their non existant wealth at me.... rented jewelry....rented cars..... video hoochies..... how many people u can kill in 16 bars.... blah blah blah. can hip hop videos be anymore uncreative? with no sound i can't even tell whos who anymore. and the poor kids get brainwashed with this garbage day in and day out..... **** those rappers! im worried about my neices and nephews being influenced by the trash they make. you wont hear any real hip hop on mtv any time soon.... cuz it dont sell. even my friends who are hardcore rap fans make fun of the stuff out nowadays.... little kids i know tell me they dont like "that" stuff. i think or i hope people are finally waking up. my lil nephew made me burn a meshuggah cd for him......sniff* sniff*....proudest moment of my life....

[Abstract]

Rogue:

you don't really 'get it'...you 'get' what's happened to hip hop. You're dead on point about that. It's been commodified. Like you said, that happens to everything at some point....but that's not 'getting' hip hop culture. What you see portrayed on TV by the media is not close to being accurate.

Red:
like you said ignorance & machismo(like i pointed out) is prevalent in every culture. It DOES depend on your vantage point, seeing as how it will effect on how/why things turn out the way they do or are handled the way they are. I'm not saying what happened was the acceptable time & place to handle that, but it happened. And people are quick to jump to conclusions without knowing what's really going on.

And yes, you're BOTH on the outside looking in. In no way shape or form are you involved or does hip hop effect your life. It's not something to which you have an attachment or engage in at any point. It's nothing for you other than something to discuss. I grew up in the borough which spawned the artform, i have been & will always be part of it & it part of me.

you can be as astute or understanding or intelligent as you please, but you will be on the outside looking in.

[red5angel]

abstract, are you a rap or hip hop star? Were you at the Vibe awards that you somehow have your finger on the pulse of understanding?
I' not trying to be an ass, but just living in the hood doesn't necessarily give you any more understanding then anyone else. As a matter of fact, these sorts of problems are prevelant, as you pointed out, in all facets of society. The issues may be subtly different but there's no mystery there. You grow up in a rough and tumble life (atleast some of them) and you fail to grow out of it, you continue to live that life. That's it, no mystery.
These guys want to fight because like every human being, and particularly males, who don't bother to stop and think about their actions, they need to establish their superiority and the superiority of whatever group, be it, gang, neighborhood, race, religion, whatever, over the superiority of others.
It's really not that complicated. As a matter of fact, I was going to use the soccer riot as an example of what it looked like on video, earlier, but didn't. It's actually an apt comparison. You have two groups of people who are aligned with different clubs/gangs/musicians/parts of the country/world and they want to make sure the other guy knows they are better and tougher.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
in a word?

ignorance....

there all dooshey douchebags like the black metal crowd burning churches way back when...

they get caught up in their own hype and image...

:rolleyes:

It is part of the culture in a sad way.... hip hop is a part of an urban lifestyle, that includes high crime... it is just fact of the matter that people don't want to be "punked" over anything.. egos get in the way... and boom.

[FuXnDajenariht]

true....i wanna see hip hop treated like the art form she deserves to be......but as it goes now its never gonna be on the level as jazz or blues or r&b. alot of its bad rep is warranted unlike those genres when they first started back in the day. even if....is there really anything that important that u hafta interrupt ur own award show? this is like the 3rd fight at a hip hop award show. people are gonna get tired of it. their a bunch of moron...bottom line.

[Chang Style Novice]

My theory is that the industry manipulates stupid thuggish types into stars (and there are LOTS of hiphoppers who don't fit this stereotype) because it's much easier for them to get manipulated out of their earnings. Occassionally you get the Eazy E or Jay Z type who beats them at their own game, but more often it's the other way around.

[CaptinPickAxe]

What gets me is that all these cats are GANGSTER RAPPERS, not Hip Hop emcees. They've called themselves such. It's like saying Indie and Death Metal are the same...they aren't. These cats discount Hip Hop's name, and deserve to be locked up...

G-g-g-g-Goodbye, G-g-g-g-unit!

First Yayo now Youngbuck...all I have to say is Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish.

[RENEGADE_MONK]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
What gets me is that all these cats are GANGSTER RAPPERS, not Hip Hop emcees. They've called themselves such.

That's a good point, as most people don't know or realize is Hip Hop was the main form of rap from NY, PA, and Jersey in the late 80's before making it's way to the west coast where Electro Hop was big with groups like World Class Wrecking Crew which is where Dre got his start, and the Egyptian Lover "Greg Broussard" .

A few years after is when NWA and Eazy E, Mc Ren, Ice T, Dj Yella, Dre....and such pioneered what was called rapcore , hardcore rap with stuff like F..u.c..k the Police" and "Straight outta Compton" ...this is where the term or label Gangsta Rap came from. Hip Hop music laid the seed for the stuff that's out now.

[Serpent]

Hip Hop these days is just a massive front for an even more massive clothing industry anyway. RocaWear, Sean John, etc., etc. I was unfortunate enough to have to go to 50 Cent's last tour (long story) and the whole show was basically a massive promo for his clothing and shoes, interspersed with sampled gun shots. :rolleyes:

[Chang Style Novice]

Renegade -

Gangsta rap's roots go back further than that.

BDP - Criminal Minded
Just-Ice - Back to the Old School (actually had a song on it called "Gangsta Hiphop" - in 1986!)
Schooly D - PSK, What Does it Mean?

Let's not fool ourselves. This style has always been part of hiphop, and lots of it has been hella fresh. The real problem is that these days its the only side that gets seen, and it's not so fresh anymore

[rogue]

you don't really 'get it'.
I think I do Abstract, I had been in the music business for close to 20 years before moving on and growing up. Well kind of growing up. I started out in the mid to late 70's and was a rocker and a punk, but I also played soul, funk, backed up a classic doo whop group, played country with a punk tinge, did metal, jazz (as long as it swings) and even weddings. Most of these so called cultures that sprout up, and of which I've belonged to 2 or 3 of, are manufactured. Of course not when they first start out, but as soon as they get a little notice and some young folk with cash they're willing to dispose of, then it's just a gold rush. More so now with cable and all. The ones who really, really get it are the ones making money off of it. Most if not all of the subcultures are about sex, drugs/drinking and partying, but some may overlay that with a social message of some sort. But when you scratch the surface they're all the same. :)


My theory is that the industry manipulates stupid thuggish types into stars (and there are LOTS of hiphoppers who don't fit this stereotype) because it's much easier for them to get manipulated out of their earnings.
That and it feeds into the danger fantasy of the fans. I love watching these guys show off their rented houses and brag about stupid stuff like their X-Box, big screen tv and sneakers. The guys who do well are very pragmatic about what they're doing. They may love making music but they know and are involved in the business. After thugs and druggies, "true artists" are the most gullible.

[Starchaser107]

you could also argue that the message from furious 5 was a part of this gangster vibe.

anyway. this is all very unfortunate. why are rappers like chingy and snoop allowed to come on tv and flaunt thier crip affiliation.
and people like suge a blatant blood still have control over so many things.

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/menu_001.htm

[Chang Style Novice]

Originally posted by rogue
After thugs and druggies, "true artists" are the most gullible. Sounds right to me.

[diego]

Originally posted by rogue
I'd go with stupidty, false self importance and the glorification of being a complete and total self destructive moron. 99.9% of that scene just disgusts me. Hip hop needs it's own Spinal Tap but I doubt many of the current crop of performers would get it. The smart ones figured out it's entertainment and a business, the others are living their thug fantasies.

My prediction: Shug is going to get capped.

rouge i take it 99.9% of the scene iyo is that crap at the vibe awards...what is that one percent that doesn't disgust you?...just curious about an old timers ;) :p view of Hiphop compared to pop-rap-crap:)

[diego]

okay never mind with my questions rouge i see they got to you first...does the average outsider tho consider poprap to rep 99.9% of the culture?...what about all the other elements and how they are repped worldwide/underground the breakers, the dj's the graff artists etc...there has to be about a million real hiphop heads worldwide...so i'm just trying to wrap my head around the exact percentages of toy and true...

[Abstract]

Red: I said what I said, you can come to your own concluscions about it. I'd rather not get into it. ..(and no I don't think you're being an ass...)

Rogue: --b4 i get started, i ain't upset...so don't read this the wrong way man...NOW: just cuz you've been in the music business doesn't mean you 'get' hip hop....what is it with ppl? Like I said, you are on point about what's become of alot of it lately, but that has nothing to do with understanding hip hop culture. I've dealt with uncountable numbers of ppl in the industry like yourself(not digging you out man) but they thought they 'got it' too, only to come to some rude awakenings...you're not in the thick of what goes on so you can't possibly know. 'getting it' has nothing to do with working in the record/music industry, as a matter of fact, they are usually the ones who 'get it' the LEAST, as they are all about $$ signs & nothing more. the culture gets raped & bastarized at the expense of money---and this happens much more so with urban music & artforms. Jazz is a prime example of that.

Basically because it wasn't made for ppl like you( you= anyone who feels this way). Anyone who really knows the deal & has some backbone will tell you that to your face.

You both(and most ppl) see it as some sort of a joke, or just entertainment. or something teenagers listen to. It is not. Also it's not something you can relate to, have related to, and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth. It's NOT something you 'grow out of'...You don't 'grow out of' rock do you? or jazz? So why 'grow out' of rap?? maybe cause it was never really a part of you to begin with.

why not?

Cause it doesn't 'speak' to you. The words coming out of an emcees mouth hold no meaning to you nor can you truly appreciate what's being done as you don't come from the 'same world' to coin a phrase...and Red, it has only very little to do with 'growing up in the ghetto or the streets..'

PPL b!tch about 'gangsta rap' as if there is such a thing....Y'all watch Goodfellas? the Godfather? Horror movies? you can WATCH that--violence, rape, murder, fighting, but can't even LISTEN to someone express the angst of dealing with circumstances that are not usually fantasy but based on bullisht they've actually dealt with? You've never had & never will deal with 99% of that, so how can you 'get it'??

Think about what(who) you're REALLY uncomfortable with, and be honest with yourself....'cause it's not the lyrics, or the music.

RAP IS HIPHOP & HIPHOP IS RAP---there is NO DIFFERENCE.

The only difference came when record executives needed to compartmentalize & market the CD's & LP's for sale to the rest of America. If some knuckleheaded rapper bought/buys into that, well, shame on them, because they all know better. whether or not they openly admit it. they all do.

to quote Q-Tip AKA the Abstract Poetic AKA Kamaal Fareed..."what is hip hop if it doesn't have violence, chill for a minute Doug E. Fresh said silence......" (C) 1992 Low End Theory, ATCQ----CSN citted a few emcees who express similar statements, none of them ever claimed to be 'gangsta rap'...cuz there's really no such thing. but you all knew that right??

i'm not gwan post anymore on this as it's just not productive. I've been misunderstood, i'm not debating this, i'm not just giving you my opinion, i'm TELLIN you LIKE IT IS based on FACT of not just MY experience, but the experience of countless acts signed & unsigned. Friends & some just acquaintences with multiple LP's out & friends in the background. Y'all really have no idea & in the industry or not, you couldn't possibly know, they wouldn't tell someone like you, so take what I say as insiders knowledge & learn from it.... I realise ppl don't like being wrong, & you two seem cool enough, I'm trying to do this as congeinally as possible so that you & anyone else reading this will think twice before they settle on opinions they draw without accurate understanding of this, or other things in the future. So imma let it drop before i really get started.

(sorry if any typos) peace fellas:cool:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rogue
Most if not all of the subcultures are about sex, drugs/drinking and partying, but some may overlay that with a social message of some sort. But when you scratch the surface they're all the same. :)
Man, you are old!

:p ;)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Abstract
Think about what(who) you're REALLY uncomfortable with, and be honest with yourself....'cause it's not the lyrics, or the music.
Dude, you just totally failed Psych 101 and Reading Comprehension.

I understand where a lot of what you've said is coming from, but you're as guilty of those you accuse. You claim that they don't get it, when you really don't know them well enough to say so. Then you talk like you don't get them. There's never an answer there.

I've never been a mobster, but I get Goodfellas. I've never been an Orc, but I get Lord Of The Rings.

I've never been a troubled kid growing up in the ghettoes on 8 Mile, but I know a dickhead when I see one. The real deal is out there, but there is such a thing as Gangsta rap and it sucks the money out the pockets of idiots and kids that are too easily led.

With any luck they will live their fantasies and wipe each other out. ;)

[red5angel]

It's NOT something you 'grow out of'

Yes, actually it is. You grow up and understand tha midless violence, gang affiliations and al of that crap are useless crap. You grow out of the idea that hitting people, shooting people and glorifying violence is ok. It's one thing to sing about it, a completely other thing to start a riot at a music awards show.


I don't get this "you odn't get it" crap and "you're not in the thick of it". Are you? I know you live in the hood, but are you haging with these guys? Were you at the Vibes Music awards when it all went down? Unless your in the hip hop/music business, you're not in the thick of it either.
It's pretty basic psychology, as a matter of fact its some of the oldest basic psychology that exists. It doesn't take a whole lot to understand it.
I know it wasn't written "for me" (by the way that's a huge assumption seeing as we're on an internet forum), but the messages are simliar in meaning if not content from plenty of other angry music.

[norther practitioner]

Yes, actually it is. You grow up and understand tha midless violence, gang affiliations and al of that crap are useless crap. You grow out of the idea that hitting people, shooting people and glorifying violence is ok. It's one thing to sing about it, a completely other thing to start a riot at a music awards show

Not always, but generally, maybe, others go in and out of jail and make crime a way of life (wow, I just sounded like a repub.).

[rogue]

'getting it' has nothing to do with working in the record/music industry, as a matter of fact, they are usually the ones who 'get it' the LEAST, as they are all about $$ signs & nothing more.

Don't worry Abstract, I'm not taking what you're saying wrong and I love talking about music. I've said those same things back in the day when I was playing in the punk scene. The rockers and the hippies didn't get us either, they weren't a part of our scene. ;) I still listen to as much of that music as I can find, (when the hell are they re-releasing Johnny Thunders solo stuff?), but I listen to it from a different place. Hard not to with a wife, some kids and a mortgage.:D Sometimes I laugh at what I was thinking back then and what I thought was important.


Basically because it wasn't made for ppl like you( you= anyone who feels this way). Anyone who really knows the deal & has some backbone will tell you that to your face.

You both(and most ppl) see it as some sort of a joke, or just entertainment. or something teenagers listen to. It is not. Also it's not something you can relate to, have related to, and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth. It's NOT something you 'grow out of'...You don't 'grow out of' rock do you? or jazz? So why 'grow out' of rap?? maybe cause it was never really a part of you to begin with. Please explain what there is to relate to.

Also something you wrote I find incredibly scary and you should too,
"and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth.". You're admitting that you're being controlled both mentally and physically. Maybe there is a difference between us since music for me was part of rebellion against something and for you it's about conforming. No offense meant, just some observations of an old geezer in the making.

[brothernumber9]

To a degree I agree with abstract. I think if you are really part of the hip hop culture and it is part of you, you don't just grow out of it unless you completely change your lifestyle and adapt to that change, that change would probably involve moving to a new location with a different environment altogether.

People often try to find similarities in Jazz, Hip-Hop, R&B, Funk, mainly because of the environments and movements that spawned these musics. However I think Hip Hop's closest parallel is country music. There is an undefined but recognizable culture to country. And those that tie thier life to it don't just grow out of it. If affects almost every aspect of thier life, almost up to and including religion. One "country" folk can recognize another, and also recognize those that just wear the clothes or only sing the songs, the holiday cowboys/cowgirls if you will. I think hip hop on it's parallel shares these things. It invades and pervades everything around you, not just what's in your CD player and the label on your clothes.

On the other side of the coin I think people can "get it" even if they are not Of it although not nearly to the same degree of understanding.

[Starchaser107]

If you were at a graduation cermony with your family for a relative of yours and while you were sitting and watching the ceremony a parent of someone else or some strange person comes over and decks your mom in an attempt to knock her out , what would you do?

If Chuck norris stabbed someone that was attacking a close relative of his would the public be more understanding?

What if Colin Powell shot and killed someone who slugged the President. would people cry foul?

[red5angel]

starchaser, what does it matter who did it? The point is that it's imbecilic behaviou, period.

Just for clarification, I don't think anyone here is trying to make it a race thing or even a cultural thing, other then in the context. The subject is a fight at a Vibe Awards show. All of the actions that led up to the fight itself are juvenile and idiotic, period. Doesn't matter who you are, where you grew up, what color your skin is or what you believe in.

[Starchaser107]

I'm in total agreement with you and I'm not trying to justify it or make it a race issue.
All I'm saying is Young Buck did not start the fight. And even though he was wrong I don't know what I would have done were i faced with a situation where some strange person comes out of the blue to assualt me or my friends or family, I don't know if this person is trying to assasinate me or anyone.
It might have been a stupid decision , but it was a decision made on the spot and in the heat of things...
What would you have done?

[Starchaser107]

Just one other thing

We are all (supposedly ) martial artists here, this implies that we all train to React Violently when confronted with Violence
now all I want is for you (all ) is to Honestly put it into some kind of Perspective.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by red5angel
Yes, actually it is. You grow up and understand tha midless violence, gang affiliations and al of that crap are useless crap. You grow out of the idea that hitting people, shooting people and glorifying violence is ok. It's one thing to sing about it, a completely other thing to start a riot at a music awards show.


I don't get this "you odn't get it" crap and "you're not in the thick of it". Are you? I know you live in the hood, but are you haging with these guys? Were you at the Vibes Music awards when it all went down? Unless your in the hip hop/music business, you're not in the thick of it either.
It's pretty basic psychology, as a matter of fact its some of the oldest basic psychology that exists. It doesn't take a whole lot to understand it.
I know it wasn't written "for me" (by the way that's a huge assumption seeing as we're on an internet forum), but the messages are simliar in meaning if not content from plenty of other angry music.


what he's saying is that you don't grow out of the culture of hip hop. Do you grow out of MA after you realize that the movies are nothing but wires? Or, Do you keep training because that's "just what you do" - because it's a part of you. if it's part of you, no, you won't outgrow it. he's not saying you don't outgrow being in gangs, robbing people, etc. He's saying you don't outgrow hip hop.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Abstract

PPL b!tch about 'gangsta rap' as if there is such a thing....Y'all watch Goodfellas? the Godfather? Horror movies? you can WATCH that--violence, rape, murder, fighting, but can't even LISTEN to someone express the angst of dealing with circumstances that are not usually fantasy but based on bullisht they've actually dealt with? You've never had & never will deal with 99% of that, so how can you 'get it'??

Think about what(who) you're REALLY uncomfortable with, and be honest with yourself....'cause it's not the lyrics, or the music.



"And last week, I seen a Schwarzaneggar movie
where he's shootin all sorts of these mother ****ers with a uzi
I see three little kids, up in the front row,
screamin Go, with their 17-year-old Uncle
I'm like, Guidance - ain't they got the same moms and dads
who got mad when I asked if they liked violence?
And told me that my tape taught 'em to swear
What about the make-up you allow your 12-year-old daughter to wear?"

- eminem, "who knew?"

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
My theory is that the industry manipulates stupid thuggish types into stars (and there are LOTS of hiphoppers who don't fit this stereotype) because it's much easier for them to get manipulated out of their earnings. Occassionally you get the Eazy E or Jay Z type who beats them at their own game, but more often it's the other way around.

yeah, jay z reversed the game on everyone, but eazy e? He was the one that got NWA screwed...the contracts were messed up - Ice cube was the one who picked up on it, and he left the group.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Renegade -

Gangsta rap's roots go back further than that.

BDP - Criminal Minded
Just-Ice - Back to the Old School (actually had a song on it called "Gangsta Hiphop" - in 1986!)
Schooly D - PSK, What Does it Mean?

Let's not fool ourselves. This style has always been part of hiphop, and lots of it has been hella fresh. The real problem is that these days its the only side that gets seen, and it's not so fresh anymore

Here's a relevant interview with ice-t:

http://www.daveyd.com/iceprops.html

As for just-ice, I thought I was the only one that remembered him...

[rogue]

I had a reason for every movie I did, especially Tank Girl because I'm into horror. I was a big kangaroo in that movie. It's funny because I was on this one interview show with a hardcore Hip Hop muthafcka who was dissin' because of my role in Tank Girl. Then I told him I made $800,000 and all he could say was '****! Next question...' ...For that kind of money, I'd play a piece of ****! So much for being in it for the culture and the art!:D

brother#9, I was thinking about the country scene also, but it's getting harder to pin what is country these days. Every time I turn on the country channels I see Kid Rock.


It invades and pervades everything around you, not just what's in your CD player and the label on your clothes. What I'm wondering is to what gain? From what I see living a hip hop lifestyle is expensive. Between the sound systems in the tuners to the clothes, someone is spending alot and some people are making alot.

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol ur right....most people can't live the hip hop lifestyle and the bar gets set higher each year. million dollar cars and jewelry. people need less stuff not more. you can wax on and on about what hip hop is but the bottom line is hip hop is represented by gangsta rappers. when people think of hip hop the dont think of PNB or Crazy Legs.... they think of 50 pesos braggin about how many hoes he went through and takes every opportunity to hold up the chain that costs more money than most people will see in their lives. No one is challenging that image cuz ur not "black" enough if you dont kiss ass. Bill Cosby was skewered in the media when he pointed out the negative effects of hip hop. Kids are more worried about outdoin their friends with $200 sneakers than learning how ta reaaad. So you can't win either way. You get shunned and called preachy or a sell out tryin to be sumthin ur not.... so let em wallow in their stupidity.

[rogue]

Nice thing about punk is that it was cheap to be stylish! Maybe you went upscale by going funky but chic as my hero David Johansen would say.

Where is the rebellion in music today? Besides Bocephus that is. I'm still waiting for the next wave.


Not about hip hop, but ... (http://www.nyrock.com/reviews/2001/knowing_jt.asp)

[The Willow Sword]

"cause its all about da money G,,,cause its all about da money, and tha props and tha respec....cause im a worthless muthaFUKKA,,livin in a world of other worthless mutha FUKKAHS all trying ta be WORTH somethin,,,,,,but i cant seem to get outta da loop G,,i cant seem to get outts tha loop,,,i keep goin round and round and back to tha same ole sh!t different day,,,,no matter how much gold i got or green i got or how much blow i got or how many hos i got,,,,i am still the same ole' worthless muthaFUKKA that some Mutha FUKKA who was worth somethin saw potential in me. but i cant seem to get outta tha loop G,,,,i keep goin around and around and i wind up back where i started,,,,im just richer and i dont give a fuk."

J-Dog and the "Crabs from Uranus" (old school)

[Chang Style Novice]

www.cocaineblunts.com is a great mp3 blog that explores many styles of hiphop.

Check it. I'm burning a CD right now from all the rare, unreleased and out of print stuff Noz has posted right now. I do this once a week or so. It's dope.

[rogue]

It's dope? What next, "word to your mother"?:D

[Chang Style Novice]

Fine. It's funky stupid fresh.

Happy now?;)

[rogue]

LMAO!:D :D

Thanks for the link. I'm hip to The Mac, and I'm digging The Game is Thick. It's crazy! I'm going to see look for some other groovy tunes. What's your favs from the site CSN?

Well 23 scadoo for now!

[Chang Style Novice]

I haven't heard it all yet, but I've been a big fan of Haiku d'Etat for years.

[rogue]

I'm liking Promo # 2 by the Jungle Brothers. I like in Smooth when they argue over the guy sounding like Wes Montgomery. I'm old and he's someone I know.:p

I'll have to give Haiku d'Etat a listen. Very cool site.

[Chang Style Novice]

I fu(king LOVE Wes Montgomery. I heard somewhere that when Coltrane was playing with his classic quartet plus Eric Dolphy, he brought Wes into the band for a short time. Wes got on Eric's case for taking too long on his solos, and he was out of the group. They never recorded the group with Wes.

It's one of my recurrent fantasies to discover unknown tapes of the John Coltrane / Elvin Jones / Jimmy Garrison / McCoy Tyner / Eric Dolphy / Wes Montgomery sessions.

That would have been the most jazz chops to ever exist in any room at once, I think.

[rogue]

I hate hearing those stories, just makes you want to hear it but you can't. But then they thought Elingtons comeback at Newport was lost also and turned out somebody did record it. Who knows, maybe there's a sound check in the engineers basement that his kids will discover. We can dream, right?

[Chang Style Novice]

Promo #2 isn't Wes, though. It's some Stax records. I hear Otis and Carla's "Tramps" and Booker T and the MGs "Green Onions" at least.

edit -

DAR! You were talking about Smooth, not Promo #2.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
lol ur right....most people can't live the hip hop lifestyle and the bar gets set higher each year. million dollar cars and jewelry. people need less stuff not more. you can wax on and on about what hip hop is but the bottom line is hip hop is represented by gangsta rappers. when people think of hip hop the dont think of PNB or Crazy Legs.... they think of 50 pesos braggin about how many hoes he went through and takes every opportunity to hold up the chain that costs more money than most people will see in their lives. No one is challenging that image cuz ur not "black" enough if you dont kiss ass. Bill Cosby was skewered in the media when he pointed out the negative effects of hip hop. Kids are more worried about outdoin their friends with $200 sneakers than learning how ta reaaad. So you can't win either way. You get shunned and called preachy or a sell out tryin to be sumthin ur not.... so let em wallow in their stupidity.

The mainstream public doesn't consist of hip hop heads. It consists of people who listen to what is played on tv and on the radio. Naturally, that's what they picture, because that's all they know. I can take any joe off the street and ask him about martial arts. I'm willing to bet that if he hasn't trained, his perception will have been jaded by what he sees in movies. The problem is that the culture of hip hop had become a fad. When a fad starts, people jump on the bandwagon....no different than a mcdojo.

[Serpent]

Was it me or did 7* just quote Eminem and no one said a thing!?

[SevenStar]

What is there to say? The quote was very relevant to what was being talked about.

[Serpent]

Yeah, for sure. But it was Eminem.

Sheesh, what are these boards coming to?

[Ray Pina]

You should check out Talib Kwali, though. He's from your hood and very good. The only real rapper that I can apreciate since BIG.

[FuXnDajenariht]

yea him and mos are the only rappers i really like right now. im not really into hip hop anymore so i dont go searching for obscure artists...i know of them but i dont listen to them. i like zach de la rocha if u could classify him as a rapper which i do, but the politickin can be extreme for some. i wish more rappers played in bands....im sorta used to instrument driven music. i know mos def has a band, tho ive never heard their work and everyone and their momma knows the roots. i love turntable hip hop tho....if you find the right artist its not repetitive at all like most producers out. real good stuff. almost drove me to scratchin at one point. they need to go back to the old skool. one dj....one emcee, and he rhymes over whatever the turntables play.....both feeding off of each other..... :D

[Shaolinlueb]

no love for the dead prez?

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol not since they sold out for all things crunk....

gawd i hate that word.... :rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
lol not since they sold out for all things crunk....

gawd i hate that word.... :rolleyes:

true they did sell out on their last album or the last one i won with them. they did a track with JayZ..... krunk yeah man that word is bad. didnt petey pablo sell out too? he sung that north carolina song next thing i know hes doing all this smooth rap. am i thinking the same person?

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol i dont know....but im biased on southern hip hop...

every time lil jon is on tv i can feel the worlds collective IQ drop several points.. :p

[SevenStar]

the only talneted southern rappers you hear on the radio oare scarface, TI, luda and eightball. Three six has it's moments, but in general southern stuff is wack.

[Ray Pina]

Have you checked out any Direct Drive parties? Drum-N-Bass but like you said, one DJ and one MC. Good juggles, etc.

www.directdrive.net

[FuXnDajenariht]

nah i never heard of em bro. but i love drum n bass. i like techno if its done right. but my problem with it sorta like with hip hop is that most of it is too repetitive...you know brain dead dance music. its hard to keep of with it tho cuz techno artists drop albums like every month....

i like the new squarepusher ive heard cuz he puts sum jazzy sh!t in it. he plays on it too. im not really up on the electronica as much as i want to be tho... lol dont laugh but im diggin on bjork....she got a voice on that lil frame, and portishead is always good stuff.... i liked the downward spiral from NIN but i guess thats industrial...its all the same to me tho..... thats about all i know.

what you recommend? you know sumthin laidback but energetic... since im tryin to lay off the aggressive music alil... sumthin jazzy...funky.... polyrythmic....inspirational...

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
Have you checked out any Direct Drive parties? Drum-N-Bass but like you said, one DJ and one MC. Good juggles, etc.

www.directdrive.net

keeewl! bookmarked.. thanks bro!

if they got kudos in the "voice" i definitely gotta check it out...

[Chang Style Novice]

C'mon 7*, you know that 'Kast got skills, and they do get a LITTLE radio play.

Also, I recommend Azeem, "Show Business" - rap record of the year, IMO.

http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/2004_09_showbiz.html

[SevenStar]

oh d@mn, I didn't mention them, did I? Yeah, them too.

[rogue]

Sevenstar's street cred just put on a pair of Dockers, a cardigan sweater and got on a bus to spend a day at Branson MO for the Yako Smirnoff show. :D

[SevenStar]

"hey, I grew up in the streets, holmes."

:D

[SevenStar]

I rip out your tonsil now you feelin it
Hip hop is dead, you responsible for killin' it
I've been sent to avenge the death
Breath life into the game defend what's left
They remind me of you, minus the deal
You remind me of me, minus the skill

-jin


hip hop is changing...

[rogue]

Cut me som' slac' jak! Chump don wan no help, chump don git no help. Jive ass dude don got no brains anyhow.

Keep tryin to cum across as legit 7*, we know you're kickin back drinking Yoohoo and listening to a Yanni CD. MC Rogue iz down wid it.

Well it's getting late so you know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac lay'er down an' smack 'em yack 'em.

Word to your mother!

[diego]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
C'mon 7*, you know that 'Kast got skills, and they do get a LITTLE radio play.

Also, I recommend Azeem, "Show Business" - rap record of the year, IMO.

http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/2004_09_showbiz.html yall wanna peep some of the tracks of the year check out my soundclick page...new nas, ra the rugged man ft masta killa killa p etc
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/hatchetmusic.htm

[SevenStar]

aight, that's it.. "after the holiday, I'm gonna come up to your school and knock you the fcuk out in front of all your students!"

[rogue]

Red made me do 7*, you know I wouldn't dis you man. You da man. I stood up for you bro. Red said you weren't fit to eat with the pigs, but I stood up for you and said that you were. It's Red who's the devil. Ya gotta believe me!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Look I even wrote a song about you!


Who's the black private ****
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?
SEVEN *!
Ya **** right!

Who is the man that would risk his neck
For his brother man?
SEVEN *!
Can you dig it?

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
SEVEN *!
Right On!

They say this cat SEVEN * is a bad mother
SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
I'm talkin' 'bout SEVEN *.
THEN WE CAN DIG IT!

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
JOHN SEVEN *!

[SevenStar]

okay, you's off the hook, but this is what we're gonna do. Find red - "find that nancy boy. I want him DEAD, I want his family DEAD, i want his house burnt to the GROUND, i want u to drive me over there so i can p!ss on the ashes"

[rogue]

7*: " Now, who's bad enough to do all of that?"

Rogue: "Me, brother, me! Yeah I'm so bad I kick my own ass twice a day!"

Hey Red, "Shabbat Shalom Muthafu&*!"
(Yes I'm now digging into Jewxploitation movies for dialog).
:D

[SevenStar]

*looks at red*

I came here to do two things - kick ass and chew bubblegum...and I'm all out of bubblegum.

[David Jamieson]

we can only watch as they kill each other off and eventually we will be free of rap.

posturing and pompous mofos that they all are.

you talk that shyte you better walk that shyte and if it's about that, then it is a self destroying genre.

[rogue]

7*, you brought the Gimp?

[Serpent]

7* is the Gimp.

[rogue]

Wow, 7* street cred is really low if someone like Serps can dis him. I may have to switch sides again.:eek: :eek:

[Serpent]

Man, 7* cred always been a sham. He been my ***** for years.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
we can only watch as they kill each other off and eventually we will be free of rap.

posturing and pompous mofos that they all are.

you talk that shyte you better walk that shyte and if it's about that, then it is a self destroying genre.

:rolleyes:

Sometimes some people just don't get it.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by SevenStar
the only talneted southern rappers you hear on the radio oare scarface, TI, luda and eightball. Three six has it's moments, but in general southern stuff is wack.


i dont know about luda. his stuff is alright.
no love for cash money? :D

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
:rolleyes:

Sometimes some people just don't get it.


he's canadian man, they only understand hockey.... and .... hockey.

[norther practitioner]

Snow, now there was a rapper (from toronto I think).

Kung Lek just proved that he knows nothing of hip-hop.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
Snow, now there was a rapper (from toronto I think).

Kung Lek just proved that he knows nothing of hip-hop.

you cant count snow. jsut like you cant count vanilla ice. every country is allowed one bad white rapper.

[rogue]

Get hip hop, Kung Lek didn't get KC and the Sunshine band.

Whenever I feel like an old white geezer I just think of Kung Lek and I feel like Superfly!

Sad thing is even KL has more street cred than 7*.:D

[brothernumber9]

snow wasn't a rapper.
he was a ja-fake-in dancehall dj. Althugh he did okay on collaboration a while back with a few cats, I think buju, sean paul, and a few others.

[Shaolinlueb]

this korean girl i knwo introduced me to this group called Drunken Tiger. some of their stuff is pretty good. nice beats.

[David Jamieson]

snow got cred from plenty o dudes in the carib, but, I still thought he sucked. lol

vanilla ice...man, there is a show here called trailer park boys wherein one of the chars is this guy J.Roc

he totally reminds me of vanilla ice.

this is a comedy, i don't know if you guys stateside get the show, but holy bejezuz it's pretty dang funny.

anyway, most rappers suck, and they suck badly.

some rappers actually have decent content and energy.

Most do not. Singing/talking a bunch a crap if you can call it singing/talking and I really don't mean to be insulting to "crap". :p

bunch of wanna be gangstas growin up ion the burbs. LOL now that's funny!

sure 50cent done time, but how much? 6 mths in juvy? man, tain't no big thang see whum sayin?

Nelly is a fruit.

Usher is a mommas boy

r kelly is a diddler

I think they should be dealt with in a similar fashion to how Fallujah was recently dealt with. If nothing else, all dem gunz a blazin will help those gangsta lip service fruits get some real to base their otherwise boosheet material on. :p

word! mofos

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Serpent
7* is the Pimp.

dayum right.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by rogue
Get hip hop, Kung Lek didn't get KC and the Sunshine band.

Whenever I feel like an old white geezer I just think of Kung Lek and I feel like Superfly!

Sad thing is even KL has more street cred than 7*.:D

So what if I like starbuck's, wear dockers, listen to alternative music and eat sushi? I'm the real thing, darn you all...:p

[Shaolinlueb]

50 cent served some of his juvey in a place in my city.

[David Jamieson]

dockers? judo hobo wears dockers? that ain't right.

well not unless they're from the sally ann and fit poorly. :p

[norther practitioner]

sure 50cent done time, but how much? 6 mths in juvy? man, tain't no big thang see whum sayin?

He's been shot 9 times.


Nelly is a fruit.

No ****


Usher is a mommas boy

He isn't hip hop.




r kelly is a diddler

Nore is he.




What do you think of people like Talib Kwali, Aesop Rock, RZA, GZA, Capone, Atmosphere, all of Def Jux?

[rogue]

Hey, where's that whiteboy Red? Sevenstar shows up and he becomes Claude Rains (aka the Invisible Man for you yungins).

[norther practitioner]

Red's getting busy (with a busted fry girl) in a burger king bathroom.

[rogue]

Doing the Humtpy hump.:D :D