View Full Version : I might do some cardio
IronFist
11-17-2004, 09:51 AM
I was thinking about ordering myself a 16kg kettlebell for Christmas. I changed gyms (my new one is $30 less per month) and my new one doesn't have any KBs. I figure the money I save by being at this new one would pay for a KB.
Don't worry, rtb, I'm not gonna start running or anything :p
Well maybe some sprints, tho.
The only thing with KBs is since my freak shoulders grow from just looking at weights, the only exercise I'd do with them would be snatches. I have no need to do any of the pressing exercises. In fact, my shoulders just about ripped through my shirt right now just thinking about doing an overhead pressing movement. US$115 (146 AUD for Toby) or whatever seems like kind of a lot to spend to be able to do one exercise, yeah? But then again, it is a good exercise that would help my stamina and strength for training, yeah?
Blah I dunno.
Ford Prefect
11-17-2004, 09:55 AM
I'd get at least a 24kg one. You'll outgrow that 16kg in no time. Great exercise for the lower back.
Suntzu
11-17-2004, 10:16 AM
honestly....... i haven't "grown" out og my 16kg'er yet...... i don't use it as much as i did when i first bought the thing.... but when i do... it's still a challenge......
Ford Prefect
11-17-2004, 11:40 AM
Really? Even just for snatches? I'm definately no strongman, but the 16kg KB is really light for me where snatches are concerned.
norther practitioner
11-17-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Really? Even just for snatches? I'm definately no strongman, but the 16kg KB is really light for me where snatches are concerned.
Thats just 'cause you're a genetic freak...
(OK, I don't even know you, but I figured that I would try to be funny)...
OK, I know what a snatch is, but is there a name for doing an upright row and passing a dumbbell from hand to hand? IE One would be with the left hand, then you let go and catch it and pull up again with the right?
Suntzu
11-17-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Really? Even just for snatches? I'm definately no strongman, but the 16kg KB is really light for me where snatches are concerned. i really don't do snatches much..... mostly c&j's and swings..... i'll flip it around every now and then.... and presses..... if he is ONLY going to do snatches.... why not get a few heavy DBs for that kinda money?........
IronFist
11-17-2004, 12:59 PM
Yeah I could do two sets of 10 snatches with the 16kg one my first try. Well, once I learned how to do snatches, that is.
But it was with a heavier one (1.5 pood, I think) that I hurt my back, so I'm hesistant to get one of those. And that was with swings, which is like the ultimate beginner KB exercise.
mortal
11-17-2004, 01:13 PM
Why don't you do cardio?
IronFist
11-17-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by mortal
Why don't you do cardio?
Because I'm an ectomorph and I have a hard enough time maintaining my weight by eating a lot and never doing cardio. If I did cardio I would burn even more calories and I would lose weight so quickly that I would blow away with the wind like Kate Moss on that one episode of Family Guy.
Chief Fox
11-17-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
Because I'm an ectomorph and I have a hard enough time maintaining my weight by eating a lot and never doing cardio. If I did cardio I would burn even more calories and I would lose weight so quickly that I would blow away with the wind like Kate Moss on that one episode of Family Guy.
I know a guy like you. If he goes running he just gets sickly skinny. So do you get winded while sparring? I noticed that after running for a few months my endurance while sparring went way up.
IronFist
11-17-2004, 01:35 PM
Yeah I get winded while sparring. Distance running isn't really good training for sparring though because it's pretty different. I mean, you can run for 20 or 30 minutes (I can't), but do you spar at light intensity for 20 or 30 minutes? No. I think high intensity, short "cardio" sessions that more closely mimick sparring are better training for fighting, which is why I'm considering getting a KB.
On the other hand, I could have a lot better cardio but I'd be 10 or 20lbs lighter and have very little strength. I chose to have size and strength at the expense of cardio.
Chief Fox
11-17-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
Yeah I get winded while sparring. Distance running isn't really good training for sparring though because it's pretty different. I mean, you can run for 20 or 30 minutes (I can't), but do you spar at light intensity for 20 or 30 minutes? No. I think high intensity, short "cardio" sessions that more closely mimick sparring are better training for fighting, which is why I'm considering getting a KB.
On the other hand, I could have a lot better cardio but I'd be 10 or 20lbs lighter and have very little strength. I chose to have size and strength at the expense of cardio.
Ahhhh, I get it. weight resistance with short bouts of cardio. Makes sense. Have you tried CROSSFIT? at http://www.crossfit.com. It's a similar concept.
Ford Prefect
11-17-2004, 02:37 PM
Wow. That's strange. I figured you'd have a stronger lower back than that. You can DL a good amount, right? Anyway, if that's the case than a 16kg should do you well. Even if you start to outgrow it, mixing burpee sprints and kb sprints with light rope skipping in between is a sure way to tax even the hardiest of men.
Well, it taxes me anyway, so I'm talking myself up a little. :)
IronFist
11-17-2004, 04:12 PM
My lower back is strong. That's why I was like "wtf?" when I hurt it doing SWINGS.
Wait, let me make sure I know what a snatch is (the exercise). You start with the KB between your legs and then jerk it up and end with your arm straight above your head in one clean motion, right?
Strange how I used the words "clean" and "jerk" to describe the "snatch."
:D Your idea of cardio isn't most people's. Buy a KB and do some sets? Most people here would think of HIIT or endurance work :D.
Anyway, I'd like some KBs. Maybe one day I'll get some to mix it up a bit with the PTP. Let us know what you reckon if you do get one Iron.
Originally posted by IronFist
US$115 (146 AUD for Toby)*Sniff* I'm honoured.
Serpent
11-17-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
US$115 (146 AUD for Toby) Yeah, and what about me? Just for Toby was it?
Or did you just realise that I could work it out for myself, but Toby's too dumb for that?
Originally posted by norther practitioner
Thats just 'cause you're a genetic freak...
(OK, I don't even know you, but I figured that I would try to be funny)...
OK, I know what a snatch is, but is there a name for doing an upright row and passing a dumbbell from hand to hand? IE One would be with the left hand, then you let go and catch it and pull up again with the right?
I'm guessing the Pull and Catch. That's a mean little *****. I used it for a tabata workout one time. Whipped my ass.
here's (http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=06562696080F915C7C875B8247 5BF4A1.ramuh?id=478154) a link to the article I first saw 'em in. The third technique down.
IronFist
11-17-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Vash
here's (http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=06562696080F915C7C875B8247 5BF4A1.ramuh?id=478154) a link to the article I first saw 'em in. The third technique down.
Originally posted by Vash
I'm guessing the Pull and Catch. That's a mean little *****. I used it for a tabata workout one time. Whipped my ass.
No dude that's a different exercise. He didn't pull them high enough for it to be a snatch. A snatch ends above your head with your arm straight before you begin the descent. At the top, the KB flips over your fist and hits the back of your forearm. Obviously that can't happen with a dumbell.
Ah, gotcha. Wasn't thinking about the KBs. I need to get me some o' them . . . after I get me some employment . . .
Ford Prefect
11-18-2004, 07:19 AM
Hey Iron,
That sounds about right, but the majority of the action is facillitated by a strong hip snap. Your arms are mainly used to transfer the power that is generated by the legs and hips, and they don't generate much power themselves. One thing I thought of today as I started my KB work is that I always do a set or two of 15-30 2-handed swings before I do any ballistic stuff the KB. It doesn't matter the weight; I'll do it even with the 16kg. I think I started doing that because I was burned like you once.
IronFist
11-18-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Hey Iron,
That sounds about right, but the majority of the action is facillitated by a strong hip snap. Your arms are mainly used to transfer the power that is generated by the legs and hips, and they don't generate much power themselves.
Right. That's why I like them, because they don't use the arms (shoulders) that much as it's mostly hip/back momentum.
One thing I thought of today as I started my KB work is that I always do a set or two of 15-30 2-handed swings before I do any ballistic stuff the KB. It doesn't matter the weight; I'll do it even with the 16kg. I think I started doing that because I was burned like you once.
That sounds smart. I think I will do that, as well. So I'm either going to get the 16kg KB or the 20kg KB (that one is in between the 1 pood and the 1.5 pood, it's 44 pounds I think). I figure it's better to start too light than too heavy.
fa_jing
11-18-2004, 10:55 AM
get the 20, not the 16.
Chief Fox
11-18-2004, 05:01 PM
Check the prices for Kettlebells at everythingtrackandfield: LINK (http://www.everythingtrackandfield.com/detail.aspx_Q_ID_E_4277_A_CategoryID_E_292)
www.everythingtrackandfield.com
16k kettlebell = $50.00 ground shipping = $7.50
24k kettlebell = $65.00 ground shipping = $7.50
32k kettlebell = $80.00 ground shipping = $8.00
www. dragondoor.com
16k kettlebell = $89.95 shipping = $24.00
24k kettlebell = $109.95 shipping = $32.00
32k kettlebell = $139.95 shipping = $39.00
Ford Prefect
11-19-2004, 06:43 AM
Holy crap, Chief Fox. Those look pretty good. It's about time a competitor came out, so people weren't price gouged.
Chief Fox
11-19-2004, 08:50 AM
Yeah I know. I could never understand why dragon door's prices were so freakin' high! I never even considered buying a kettlebell before. But now I probably will.
fa_jing
11-19-2004, 09:40 AM
holy mole! Ima hafta get me a 32 k from there
rubthebuddha
11-19-2004, 01:44 PM
whoever orders, let the rest of us know how well it feels, cause i may be getting one for chrimmus.
IronFist
11-19-2004, 05:06 PM
I don't see KBs there. Their search function returned no results for searching for "kettlebell" or "kettlebells," and there are none listed under the categories of Weight Lifting Equipment or Resistance Training. Where are they?
edit - I found them, it's under "Kettle bells" under "View Full Product List." They look the same as Dragondoors. Wow! I agree with Ford: finally some competition! I've seen other companies make KBs before but they sucked. These look the same, yeah?
I was just thinking, I'm 5'9" and my apartment has 8ft ceilings. I hope I don't hit the ceiling doing snatches. I asked on dragondoor and they said I should be ok. I'll have to measure exactly.
I just emailed them to see if they have them in stock. I'll order at 16 and a 24 from them if they do. Sweet.
Does someone want to tell Dragon Door about these? Hehe. Maybe DD would lower their prices.
You know what I was just thinking? Maybe this company really sells ****ty kettlebells and just stole the pic from DD's website. I just say cuz their KBs have the same flat spot on the side that dragondoor's do. Unless that's part of the casting process... Hmmm...
fa_jing
11-19-2004, 06:45 PM
http://www.irongarm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/000635.html
research is being done as we speak
IronFist
11-19-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by fa_jing
http://www.irongarm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/000635.html
research is being done as we speak
That's awesome where did you find that? I'll have to follow that thread, too.
I guess I should email them back and ask how theirs differ from dragondoor's.
Ford Prefect
11-19-2004, 08:00 PM
Good info. I'll be following that too. Seems very promising.
IronFist
11-19-2004, 09:01 PM
Wait, "irongarm" .com? Is that garm from the dragondoor forum?
IronFist
11-20-2004, 02:03 PM
Ok I'm bored I think I'm going to ask the dd forum about these KB's now.
Link (http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/304608%5C). I wonder if that post will get deleted.
IronFist
11-20-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
Link (http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/304608%5C). I wonder if that post will get deleted.
Oh did I call it or what?! The post has been deleted after less than 12 hours! :D
I guess I'll just have to post it again...
fa_jing
11-20-2004, 07:02 PM
yes, Garm and some others have permanently left the DD forum due to censorship issues. The site I linked to is good, but the training forum is a bit slow moving. You could get your questions answered there, though.
Another good training forum is http://pub208.ezboard.com/bbulkandpower48873
IronFist
11-20-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by fa_jing
yes, Garm and some others have permanently left the DD forum due to censorship issues. The site I linked to is good, but the training forum is a bit slow moving. You could get your questions answered there, though.
Another good training forum is http://pub208.ezboard.com/bbulkandpower48873
^ Holy crap that like 8 year old kid has good squat form!
Yeah so as soon as someone on Garm's forum says those other KBs are good I'm going to order some. Otherwise I'll just get one from Dragondoor, I guess.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by IronFist
Oh did I call it or what?! The post has been deleted after less than 12 hours! :D
I guess I'll just have to post it again...
Oops! I posted it again on a Monday morning (http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/304799/) so lots of people should see it before it gets deleted again. Is DD feeling intimidated? All they have to do is lower their prices and then these other guys won't be a threat. They'd probably sell more with lower prices, too.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 10:07 AM
Holy crap it's been posted for an hour or two and it already has 464 views! :eek:
Ford Prefect
11-22-2004, 10:57 AM
Deleted.
That's pretty sad. The same crap goes on in other "Russian Experts" forums who shall remain nameless.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 11:13 AM
The view count was going up really high. I wonder if when it gets to 1000 (or 1024) if the thread gets deleted because the counter excedes is possible value? Maybe they kept hitting reload so the thread would cancel itself. I dunno. I just find it strange that in less than an hour it had 650 views. I also find it strange that they wouldn't have a way to delete the thread manually. Maybe that many people actually do visit that board and the view count went up that high on its own.
Well, I guess I'll have to post it again.
What other "Russian Experts?" The only other Russian weight lifting guy I know is Zatsiorsky, and I don't think he has a forum.
If I knew someone was being shady I would definately list their name. Kind of like if I had a bad experience at a car dealership I would tell everyone who was interested to prevent them from being burned as well. For example, now I will say Dragondoor's forum is shady and they delete stuff that is threatening to their business or contradictory to what they believe. However, this could be John DuCane deleting all of it and not Pavel cuz I'm pretty sure it's him who owns the company. Additionally, it is their forum and they can moderate it any way they see fit. I'm not hostile, just suspicious. Anyway, if you don't want to mention names that's fine. You may have other reasons or whatever. I just like to keep my BS list up to date :D
IronFist
11-22-2004, 11:19 AM
PS. It's time to post it again. Does someone else want to this time? Or should I do it again :D
Hey, someone else should post it and call the thread "Where was that other cheap KB thread? I can't find it?"
lol :D
norther practitioner
11-22-2004, 01:51 PM
iron trolling other boards and writing about it here....
priceless
IronFist
11-22-2004, 01:56 PM
Yeah, but I'm not trolling for the sake of trolling. I'm trolling for the sake of I want to find out if these cheaper KBs are good so I can save myself some money when I order.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 01:56 PM
PS. I got a reply from everythingtrackandfield. They said they don't keep the KBs in their warehouse but it usually takes about a week for them to get to you from the manufacturer.
norther practitioner
11-22-2004, 02:02 PM
It's still funny nonetheless.
fa_jing
11-22-2004, 03:38 PM
FP had to be talking about Sonnon. Apparently he browses OTHER forums and if he sees you talking bad about him or his products, will ban you from HIS forum. It didn't happen to me, in fact I've never been over there.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 03:40 PM
Is Sonnon the club bell guy? He's Russian?
fa_jing
11-22-2004, 07:30 PM
he teaches Systema
IronFist
11-22-2004, 07:55 PM
Who's the clubbell guy?
IronFist
11-22-2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by IronFist
PS. It's time to post it again. Does someone else want to this time? Or should I do it again :D
Hey, someone else should post it and call the thread "Where was that other cheap KB thread? I can't find it?"
lol :D
Ok you guys I was serious.
I don't read dragondoor so I don't care. Plus it's a different country so it doesn't affect me. But I think it's pretty crappy how they've censored your threads :mad:.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 09:00 PM
So you're gonna help me? Although it'd be obvious if you just registered and that was your first post.
You could make a post about "I want to use KBs but they're too expensive, are you guys going to lower your prices?" And then I could post my link again. That would be obvious, too, tho.
You mistook my apathy for concern :p. I think it sucks, but I'm not gunna do anything about it. In Oz we pay waaay more than dragondoor prices for KB-type stuff, so you guys are getting a good deal in comparison to us anyway. If it was me, I'd just voice my opinion with my wallet and buy from the other guys instead.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 09:33 PM
I just need to make sure the other guys don't suck before I buy from them.
Hmmm...
Check fa_jing's other thread, or ask him how he's going. Wasn't he gunna order one?
IronFist
11-22-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Toby
You mistook my apathy for concern :p.
That's a great line :D :p
I'm following that other thread, but it's slow.
I should register over there, but I'm lazy.
I see MikeThe Bear over there. Did he leave the DD forum or does he post on both now?
Originally posted by Toby
I don't read dragondoor so I don't care.Name's familiar, but I dunno who he is.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 10:45 PM
Oops, I was asking that question to fa_jing. My fault for not clarifying.
IronFist
11-22-2004, 10:48 PM
Hey Toby, if someone gives me 5 kilos of apples, I know that that equals 11.0231131 pounds of apples!
:D
:cool:
:eek:
:cool:
:D
:p
Do you guys even say "kilos" or do you say "kilograms?"
rubthebuddha
11-22-2004, 10:53 PM
sonnon teaches sambo, not systema, and i didn't get a single hint that he's remotely russian after talking with him a few times. he may be, but i was probably too busy paying attention to his content rather than any verbal nuance.
Kilos mostly. Only applies to mass obviously. E.g. you wouldn't say "We still have 5 kilos to go." when talking about kilometres. OTOH you would say "We still have 5 k's to go." or "We still have 5 kays to go." Also, you'd never say "I weigh 90 k's." K's for distance, kilos for mass.
On the conversion, I think I told you like a year ago that if you type "5kg in lb" into google, it gives you the conversion. That's what you just did, right? Google's got a pretty functional built-in converter and calculator too. Also, for money conversions I use http://www.xe.com/ucc.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 12:02 AM
Thanks for the clarification. www.xe.com rules.
So is Sonnon the clubbells guy or not? Who is then?
edit - it is Sonnon. I thought that name was familiar. Sonnon's clubbells site (http://www.clubbells.co.uk/).
PS. Clubbells and KBs are freaking expensive on that site.
Ford Prefect
11-23-2004, 06:53 AM
Sonnon is the clubbell guy. He also professes to be an expert on various Russian training methodologies, but of course I could be talking about somebody else. ;) His marketting is probably a little a weaker than David Koresh's.
fa_jing
11-23-2004, 01:17 PM
iron - I think MTB still posts on both forums. Almost everybody cool hangs out at Garm's at least some of the time, though, even some senior RKCS like Steve Cotter and Mike Mahler. So if you had issues with the site, there wouldn't be any compelling reason to go there.
BTW, I think you all may remember that I met Pavel and he is a great guy.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 03:06 PM
Yeah, Pavel is cool. I haven't met him, but I've talked to him online. It was easier to talk to him on the forum back in the early days of DD when there weren't that many people there. I don't suspect it's him that's deleting the posts.
Anyway, I should register at Garm's forum. We'll see. I'm pretty lazy sometimes. I'd say tell them I said hi but I post on DD's forum like once a month now so they probably don't remember me.
Did anyone on Garm's forum order one of those other brands of KBs? The moment someone posts and says they're cool I'm going to order. I'm just worried the handle might be a bit too big cuz I have kinda small hands to begin with and I liked the way DD's felt.
fa_jing
11-23-2004, 03:26 PM
I will order one this weekend in all likelihood. If the handles are bigger, that's good for the grip, which might be good if you're into that. It may depend on the size you buy, too. The grip on the 32kg doesn't look much bigger than the one on the 24.
BTW, the "Free speech" forum on IronGarm is not to be browsed at work. The training forum and training logs are safe.
fa_jing
11-23-2004, 03:28 PM
oh, and you wanted to get the "tween" size, which they don't seem to carry at the everythingtrackandfield site.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 03:40 PM
i'll just get a 1.5 pood from everythingtrackandfield and if it's good quality then i'll get a 1pood from them, too. Both of those from them are cheaper than a 1.5 pood alone from DD.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 03:53 PM
New thread (http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/305018/).
IronFist
11-23-2004, 04:04 PM
In the last two minutes it went from 20 to 52 views. Are they trying to flood it off again? Interesting pattern I've noticed.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 04:14 PM
View log by Time:
CST:
5:06pm 75 views
5:08pm 94 views
5:09pm 102 views
5:14pm 106 views
Ok, I guess it's slowing down now. But I find it hard to believe that 50 people viewed that post in the first 5 minutes. Maybe their moderator went for a break and can't keep hitting reload over and over right now.
I dunno.
btw, their forum time is 33 minutes fast. What a strange number to be off by. It's 5:05pm right now but a post I just made two seconds ago says 5:38pm. Hmmm
Ford Prefect
11-23-2004, 04:19 PM
I viewed it. You callin me a liar? ;)
IronFist
11-23-2004, 04:20 PM
liAr!!!!!!!!! :eek:
IronFist
11-23-2004, 04:23 PM
Wow, Iron Garm really doesn't like Steve Freides of Ridgewood, New Jersey, and Craig's Momma (http://www.irongarm.org/Files_html_global/adult_content.htm). :confused: Who is Steve Freides? That name sounds familiar from the DD forum. Was he one of the trolls there? edit - Oh wait, here's an explanation (http://www.irongarm.org/Files_html_global/peanutgallery2.htm).
Haha, Garm is funny. I remember back in the day on DD when we would post there.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 04:27 PM
OMG!!! DELETED ALREADY!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Amazing.
IronFist
11-23-2004, 06:10 PM
I just got an email from them explaning why my post was removed. At least that was kind of nice. They basically said they offer a 1 year gaurantee on all their products and they can't match the other company's price because their KBs are made in the USA.
Anyway, at least they offered an explanation as to why my post was removed. As I said before, it's their forum and they can moderate it however they wish.
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