For the guys that have fought in 't3h str33t'

[scotty1]

Yep this thread is for anyone who's ever struck someone in the face full power. (Or need to do so on a regular basis because of your job).

Did you / do you use a fist or some kind of open hand strike (heel of your palm)?

Did you damage your hand?

Based on that experience would you change the way you struck someone?

Cheers

[Shaolinlueb]

i fought a couple times in the street. and only one time it went to the ground. i kept on getting the kid in a headlock. it seems i was a lot braver back then. one of the fights happened in the school yard. I was also in 6th grade for all these fights. I am 23 now. no one got hurt, but i won em all, i think, the school yard one was debateable.

[MasterKiller]

My hands were sore for a couple of days but they weren't seriously hurt.

[richard sloan]

bruised knuckle which hurt like a mother.

kind of began to favor elbows.

now I prefer to introduce something which stops the fight.

[Reggie1]

The worst I had was bruised knuckles and small gashes on my hands. And sore knuckles for several days.

[SaekSan]

"Did you / do you use a fist or some kind of open hand strike (heel of your palm)? "

Kinda hard to say, in a scuff I used anything that was possible. When using my fists, on several occasions, I had bruised hands, swollen knuckles (not all the time) and minor cuts from teeth. When using open hands (read slaps) never hurt my hand much (got a cut from an earing once) and it did the job well. Heel of palm was very seldom and only used it when my knuckles were swollen.

"Did you damage your hand?"

Never broke them but I did have stress fractures here and there.

"Based on that experience would you change the way you struck someone?"

Not really, I would rather walk away with bloddy/swollen/bruised hands than be carried away or left on the street. This doesn't mean that I have never changed my method of striking it just means that those consequences to me are an acceptable part of an altercation.

Couple of things I learned over the years have been:

- try to talk yourself out of the fight and difuse the situation before it escalates (learn how to read people who are just talking sh*t vs. people who might f*ck you up), if you can't and the fight starts make sure you fully commit to the fight and get it over with as fast as possible (go for the "I'm gonna f*ck this guy up" attitude) and walk away or run (if he has friends).

- elbows and knees are great for hitting and not hurting yourself much but can only be used in certain situations. Kicks are great but only when you hit them where it counts (shins, knees and groin)

- sometimes throwing the guy on the ground and landing on top of him is enough to stop the altercation if you are heavy enough.

- sometimes taking the fight to the ground is best so you can control the guy and beat him into unconciousness.

- if you work as a bouncer/security/bodyguard make sure your team is properly trained and understands what they can and cannot do, otherwise they might get you either hurt, killed or sued.

There's other stuff too but that's as much time as i have right now... hope that helps Scotty1

[tug]

I still have scars left over from 7th grade. I forgot the kid had braces.

Now, I remove myself from potentially dangerous situations when my "spider sense" kicks in.

[Ray Pina]

I hurt my hand more now -- actually wrist -- that I'm wearing gloves ... my teacher has taught me to punch harder than I was before and sometimes the wrist pays. I tore a ligament about two years back but lately it's been good. I also now land more with the middle knuckles, than the last nuckles .... I think it has better alignment.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Pretty much the same as others have already mentioned. Beware of punching the mouth as it can cause lacerations and possibly infection from the teeth (common attack target). Also the bruised knuckles are probably the result of punching the head (not advisable) which most untrained fighter will do. My son busted his knuckle doing that in a school fight and it's permanently damaged. I gave him hell for that (for hurting himself, not fighting).

General rule use hard against soft targets and soft against hard targets.

And I agree, elbows do more damage with less chance of injury.

[richard sloan]

I don't know any bouncer that tries to take a guy to the ground except to pick him up and throw him there. No bouncer worth a sh!t is going to wrestle around with some drunk toolbox.

Have you ever seen the floor of a nightclub, or a NYMFC street at 5AM?

You don't want to even walk on it much less roll around on it, lol...

Last year this guy got tossed outside the gate of this one club I was spinning at, in Negril.

They carried him out the gate and threw him out, literally, like 1...2...3...

He sat up and he had chicken bones stuck to his cheek and shirt.

We laughed for a long time, and he threw up.

[red5angel]

I punched this chick once.....



























It was Masterkillers girl, she kept begging me to knock her unconcious so she wouldn't have to go down on "tiny" again. I guess having a huge ***** sometimes scares the girls :(

[joedoe]

I have never been in a street fight, but a few fights at school, and I never hurt my fist.

[SaekSan]

Hua Lin wrote:

"Also the bruised knuckles are probably the result of punching the head (not advisable) which most untrained fighter will do."

Interesting view on this, care to elaborate? I'm more interested in why it is something that most "untrained fighters will do". The few times I had swollen knuckles was from repeated strikes to the face... unfortunately you can't keep a person from turning their head or raising their guard, so sometimes you strike an area you did not intend to, whenever that hapenned (while doing repeated strikes) guess what? Swollen knuckles! :)

Richard Sloan wrote:

"I don't know any bouncer that tries to take a guy to the ground except to pick him up and throw him there. No bouncer worth a sh!t is going to wrestle around with some drunk toolbox."

No bouncer would try to take the guy to the ground, if they can avoid it, but sometimes it's inevitable. The reason for kicking them out of the establishment quickly is to reduce liability in the protected environment. Whenever my team worked we would restrain and escort any trouble out of the door as quickly as possible, but on a few occasions it did go to the floor. However some of my comments do not apply to work only to personal altercations.

Richard Sloan wrote:

"Have you ever seen the floor of a nightclub, or a NYMFC street at 5AM?"

Yes I have, and they are cleaner than the floors of a Baile Funk in Sao Goncalo or the streets of Belford Roxo at 5AM... :rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by red5angel
I punched this chick once.....

It was Masterkillers girl, she kept begging me to knock her unconcious so she wouldn't have to go down on "tiny" again. I guess having a huge ***** sometimes scares the girls :(

oh man thats hilarious.

[David Jamieson]

hard to hard = someone or both are gonna get a boo boo.

soft to soft = whatever
hard to soft= see above
soft to hard= see above

i guess that point being, that any number of things can happen in a street fight and yep i been hurt in em and have ditributed some hurt in em myself.

so what?

Street fighting doesn't happen all too often and really you gotta go looking for it in order for it to happen. ONce you train long enough, you have no fascination with fighting anymore and instead look for other ways to solve issues or problems.

but when you're a young turk, your physical energies are fairly rampant while your spirit and intellect is still weak, ergo the feistiness. :p (for the most part anyway.)

[SaekSan]

Hahaha!

Very good points KL!

:)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

SaekSan
I realized I would probably get some feedback after I wrote that statement. What I'm talking about is the western style of headhunting. Untrained fighters usually just swing wildly at the head in the hopes of getting a knock out (or at least looking like they're doing a good job of fighting). Quite often, as you've mentioned, the punch to the face turns into a punch to a hard head. There are plenty of other options available to the trained fighter (as I'm sure you know) that can and will do plenty of damage.

So my question for the trained fighters who bruised their knuckles during a fight is Why were you focusing so much on the head?

And for everyone What percentage of your style involves punching to the head or face? If it's a small percentage then why spend so much time and energy (and injuring yourself) attempting it in a fight?

[norther practitioner]

I've bruised knuckles, gotten a bruised dome, etc...

I've also used palms (one to the face, one to the ribs).

I think there is a place for them, but there is as much a risk of injury using them as fists , as you can easily hyperextend a finger or thumb, miss and hurt your wrist, jam a finger, etc.

[David Jamieson]

What percentage of your style involves punching to the head or face?

Once the bridge is crossed, I would have to say that at least 90% of the attacks are to the head and upper body in the styles i practice.

The head is where the k.o is found more often than not. You can wind a guy with a gut punch and you can make him drop to the SP or kids, but the jaw is the sweet spot in pretty much all striking styles...unless you are fighting anvil jaw guy, in which case, adapt! ADAPT!

[SaekSan]

Hua Lin,

Thank you for your clarification, now I understand your point much better.

"...bruised their knuckles during a fight is Why were you focusing so much on the head?"

My reason is because it's the only way to concuss someone (Kung Lek makes good points on this issue). Headhunting is not my method for bridging a gap or to enter the opponents guard. The fights I've had bruised knuckles on were the same ones that once on the ground I was in the position to strike the head and face, if I'm on the ground I much rather choke someone than punch them, unfortunately sometimes choking is not an option, unless you want the fight to go on longer, which is not my style (I rather get the heck outta there!).


:)

[unixfudotnet]

right now, chest and neck.

[David Jamieson]

admittedly my ground work suxors and needs a lot of practice.

However, one needs a partenr to actually train the groundwork with any efficacy. Sure there is some augmentation stuff you can do, but without a partner, you can't really train groundwork.

speaking of which, any of you guys know any solo work a guy could do to increase ability in groundwork while lacking a partner.

I do have a training partner, but our primary focus is the striking aspects and we spend our time working that as opposed to ground work. The other thing is that I outweigh my training partner by too large a margin to get a lot of value out of ground work at this time.

It's not that weight difference that is the issue, it is more our own lack of training and knowledge in the area of ground work.

when I work ground in a purist way (just ground, on the ground, no strikes but just mount, guard, pass the guard and grabs holds and release) I inevitably get tooled. I am relatively new to the whole idea of not striking and such.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a complete meatbag on the ground, but I definitely would like to know and hone more good techs and frankly, it is just hard to find the venue.

so any solo stuff you ground huggers?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

SaekSan
Look at some of the street fight/backyard brawl video that's out there and most of the time what you see is a game of who can hit the other guy in the face the most or the hardest. Kind of like hockey fights. No blocking, no strategy, really no skill at all. But we grow up with the mentality that fighting is all about punching the face. Except for the current grappling craze.

Maybe it's just that I've been trying to get away from the headhunter mentality. I don't have a knockout punch and don't train to develop one either. I don't try to be bigger, stronger or hit harder than everyone else. I try to fight smarter. Westerners seem to focus too much on brawn. WWF wrestling and to some extent MMA reinforces this notion. It's the jail mentality that you have to be bigger than the next guy. Sure it helps, but so does skill. To me MA levels the playing field so that size (and strength) doesn't matter as much.

I dropped a guy once with a well placed kick to the solar plexus. He probably could have tied me into knots if he got ahold of me.

I always find it amusing that on TV (I love sci-fi) the bada$$ is always a hulking mass of muscle (at least large and bulked up) that uses pure external strength to win confrontations.

[SaekSan]

Kung Lek,

Sorry, I'm not aware of any solo work you might do to help with groundwork. I would not consider myself a "groundhugger" but I do beleive it is an essential part of understanding fighting. You are on the right path by acknowledging that you need to work on this skill, the more you go to the ground and understand the takedown process the more saavy you'll become in how to properly move and position yourself when facing the situation. If you have anyone in your area that wrestles it would be most beneficial to work with them to understand certain principles of groundwork.

Hua Lin,

I agree with you on the mentality of untrained fighters, most of my encounters were with these same folks. They go for the head and are quite predictable when it comes to strategy.

I beleive unskilled strength/brawn is no match for skilled strategy/technique. However, when it comes to size you not only need skill-strategy/technique but also experience, you have to know how to read the fight and know what you're getting yourself into.

I've had people come to me after seeing me fight telling me they had no idea I was "that kind of a person"... there's a switch that flips and once it's on it's on to the end. A lot of people don't understand what it takes to really fight... I'm not proud of it at all, it's scary when you think of it, problem is that when the switch flips there's no thinking and then there's consequences... Argh... this is depressing me.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I know what you mean. There was a time when I had a really bad violent streak. I was heading for some serious prison time in my future if I didn't get ahold of it. Had a scare shortly after my son was born where I thought I was going to get some major time and not see him grow up. I've spent the last 25 years supressing it so it takes quite a bit these days to let it out.

I had my first fight in first grade (I got bored and the teacher left the room). I was in trouble every year after that.

While some people train to let it all out in a fight there are a few of us who have to train to keep control of it. MA was the best thing to ever happen to me (other than my wife and kids).

[SaekSan]

"Had a scare shortly after my son was born..."

Same thing happened after my daughter was born, aren't children the greatest gift in life? :)

"MA was the best thing to ever happen to me (other than my wife and kids)."

Amen to that brother! :)

On first fights... I was in kindergarten (it's called CA in Brazil) and this bully kid came over to me during our recess (I guess that's the equivalent in English) and wanted to leave an imprint of his skull ring on my face (the skull ring thing was from a comic book of the era called "Fantasma", not sure if it was popular in the US at all but it was in Brazil). Anyway the kid grabbed my arm and threatened me, I did a hip toss and landed on the ground with him in a headlock (my father was a Judo instructor), the nun came by, grabbed me by the ear and took me to the corner of the classroom where I had to pray 30 Hail Marys kneeling on corn kernels :( The kid and his friends never messed with me again though :D

Ahhh... the early days!

:)

[scotty1]

Cheers everyone.

KL,

"Street fighting doesn't happen all too often and really you gotta go looking for it in order for it to happen"

I don't think that's true. yeah it's pretty infrequent but sometimes you could be unlucky.

"ONce you train long enough, you have no fascination with fighting anymore and instead look for other ways to solve issues or problems."

Like I said, sometimes you could be unlucky, and come up against the guy who doesnt have enough "spirit and intellect" to respond to yours.