unfortunate experience

[saifa5k]

http://www.wingchun.org/txt/misc/unfortun.html

I found this article on wingchun.org. It was written by someone named McLean detailing his bad experience visiting another school. I ran into the same experience visiting a tai chi school one time. Does anyone know who Mr. McLean is referring too?
Dave c

[yellowpikachu]

The greatest unfortunate experience is that we all think that we are the only one who is right and RIGHTEOUS!

Instead of just watching the thoughts raise, develop, decay, and vanished.



back to do Less Thought TRaining or Sui Niem Tau! on plane :D

[saifa5k]

I think if someone writes a negative review they should have the courage to say who they are referring to. After reading the article it sounded like it was a well respected teacher in the bay area that McLean was referring to.
Dave c


Originally posted by yellowpikachu
The greatest unfortunate experience is that we all think that we are the only one who is right and RIGHTEOUS!

Instead of just watching the thoughts raise, develop, decay, and vanished.



back to do Less Thought TRaining or Sui Niem Tau! on plane :D

[Chronos]

Originally posted by saifa5k
I think if someone writes a negative review they should have the courage to say who they are referring to. After reading the article it sounded like it was a well respected teacher in the bay area that McLean was referring to.
Dave c McLean should have kicked his ass. :rolleyes:

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by Chronos
McLean should have kicked his ass. :rolleyes:


So who is McLean and what school was he visiting? Do you know?
Dave

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by saifa5k
So who is McLean and what school was he visiting? Do you know?
Dave


The greatest unfortunate experience is that we all think that we are the only one who is right and RIGHTEOUS! :D

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
The greatest unfortunate experience is that we all think that we are the only one who is right and RIGHTEOUS! :D


LOL, dude you must have taken way too much sunshine or orange barrell back in the day cause your posts make no sense at all ;)!

Dave

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by saifa5k
LOL, dude you must have taken way too much sunshine or orange barrell back in the day cause your posts make no sense at all ;)!

Dave


Hey it is Thanksgiving time, be happy doesnt need to make sense. :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Hey it is Thanksgiving time, be happy doesnt need to make sense." (Too Much Sunshine)


No matter what time of the year...it's important to make sense.

Otherwise...what's the point?

This is not COMEDY CENTRAL...and you're not John Stewart.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
"Hey it is Thanksgiving time, be happy doesnt need to make sense." (Too Much Sunshine)


No matter what time of the year...it's important to make sense.

Otherwise...what's the point?

This is not COMEDY CENTRAL...and you're not John Stewart.


First, there is living.
Then, there is personal consciousness
Then, there is making sense according to a personal consciousness.
and the personal reallity continous to grow.
and most of the time, one forgets about the REAL Living but stuck in the personal reality based on a personal's consciousness and believe.

There all the right and wrong, you are this not that, Comedy,,,,, this is WCK that is not... this is... grows.

is those type of thinking/thoughts about Growth or about setting limitation wanting others to live one's own personal reality based on one's consciouness?

There is no spring to have to live according to one's personal consciousness. There is no spring to force the living with one's limited consciousness without awaring of there is first LIVING not Fighting or self- righteousness :D

Thus, In WCK, it taught one to train that LESS THOUGHTS Training in order to be not blind by one's own personal consciousness.
And, Sunshine always goes with Spring . otherwise, one has a room full of depress people who is thinking about figthing instead of living. :D

Happy Thanks giving! :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

Whew!...Wow!

That last post...it was so clear and concise!

Understood every word. Thanks.

"Ground control to major Tom?".....

[PaulH]

The salient point here is where does your subjective reality meet the objective truth? A pause inserted here. For a non-wingchunist Churchill correctly observed about his other social beings :

A sheep in sheep's chothing.
A modest man, who has much to be modest about
An empty taxi arrived at 10 Downing Street, and when the door was opened, Atlee got out.

As for his own introspection, we have no truer words:

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
It is well said, there is nothing wrong in change if it is in the right direction.
I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught.

I would say the above proofs that Churchill lived well is incontroversial. =)

[SAAMAG]

are we still talking about the egotistic teacher or am I lost?

[old jong]

We all are lost a little but I think Hendrik's post hidden meaning was: "A constipated man's spirit can't normally soar very high"!...;)

[PaulH]

I detect a slight biasfrom your 1st Chadra, Old Jong . A possible interpretation of Hendrik's post from the 7th Chadra would favor:

"No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. "
"Together, let's spread our wings and marathon across the sky; I want our dreams to be in unison."

=D

[old jong]

Your own third chakra might very well interpret my post as vaguely offensive and trigger a diffuse defensive reaction. No problem,we should use all our chakras to the best of our capacities. ;)

[PaulH]

Quite right! Okay, back to my 3rd corner. =D

[Skarbromantis]

I was reading the story and wondered if this was not the norm?

All the wing chun guys I ever met acted this way.

I just thought ego was part of the system?

Skard1

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Skarbromantis
All the wing chun guys I ever met acted this way.

I just thought ego was part of the system?
Oh cr@p...........here we go again. :rolleyes:

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Skarbromantis
I was reading the story and wondered if this was not the norm?

All the wing chun guys I ever met acted this way.

I just thought ego was part of the system?

Skard1


What do you expect?

if the training is using the knees to clamp the heck out of the root chakra, the elbows to clamp dead the 4th heart chakra, dope the intuitive 6th with all kind of myth of the monks kill the Qing, and fill the openess 7th with BRuce Lee as the GOD and only GOD with oneself almost become another Bruce Lee or the Savior of the world? :D :D :D


BTW,
watching movie is the modern meditation.
listerning to CDs is a substitute of cultivate Kung fu. :D

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Hey it is Thanksgiving time, be happy doesnt need to make sense. :D

Hendrik is that you! Jeez I should have known! I still think you took way to much acid in your formative years ;))
Dave

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by saifa5k
Hendrik is that you! Jeez I should have known! I still think you took way to much acid in your formative years ;))
Dave


When I am in an airport I need to talk to some one! hehehehe!

[Skarbromantis]

I'm just fu(king with you guys :D

[Vajramusti]

Quit trolling skabromantis.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Skarbromantis
I'm just fu(king with you guys :D Isn't that special. :rolleyes:

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by Matrix
Isn't that special. :rolleyes:


Well this thread sure has degenerate, guess we will never know what style the mysterious McLean studied or what school his visited. Although the reference he made to "old man wing chun" made me feel he was referring to Ken Chung.
Dave c

[Matrix]

Originally posted by saifa5k
Well this thread sure has degenerate, guess we will never know what style the mysterious McLean studied or what school his visited. Although the reference he made to "old man wing chun" made me feel he was referring to Ken Chung.
Dave,

Mr. McLean gave no real clues, so any attempt to figure it out would be pure speculation. Besides, I can honestly say that I could care less. :p
Knowing the answer has no value, from my POV.

Thanks

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by Matrix
Dave,

Mr. McLean gave no real clues, so any attempt to figure it out would be pure speculation. Besides, I can honestly say that I could care less. :p
Knowing the answer has no value, from my POV.

Thanks

Bill my feeling is that if someone writes a negative article and puts it on a popular web site they should have the courage to at least say which school they were talking about in order to give the other school a chance to respond. Otherwise its just all slander and innuendo.
Dave

[Matrix]

Originally posted by saifa5k
Otherwise its just all slander and innuendo.
Dave,

That would be true, except for the simple fact that nobody knows who he is talking about. I don't think you can slander a person's character or reputation when they have not been identified.

This really seems to be bugging you Dave. May I ask, Why?
Do you feel this "slander" has been commited against someone you know personally?

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by Matrix
Dave,

That would be true, except for the simple fact that nobody knows who he is talking about. I don't think you can slander a person's character or reputation when they have not been identified.

This really seems to be bugging you Dave. May I ask, Why?
Do you feel this "slander" has been commited against someone you know personally?


Naw its not really bugging me all that much but I did think someone on this list would have an idea who the author was. I do believe he is talking about Ken Chungs school though because of the stress that Ken puts on softness and structure his wing chun is sometimes referred to as old mens wing chun. While I am not a direct student of Ken Chung that is the lineage that I belong to through Karl Godwin and Jon McColum.
Dave

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi Dave,

I doubt that the article is talking about Ken's class. In the 4 years I've been with him, attending practically every class, I've witnessed many visitors coming to our class, so I have a fair idea of how vistors are treated. Aside from the fact that I haven't witnessed the encounter Adam described, much of his descriptions don't sound like us.

"Upon my arrival to his school, he welcomed me in to watch and asked if I would like to participate."

Ken has this curious habit of suggesting to a vistor to feel free to watch the class, and then ignoring the vistor for the rest of the class, and not talking to the visitor until he/she approaches Ken again at the end of the class. :) I think he does this to filter out people who aren't serious about the class. He very rarely asks a total stranger to participate. In the 4 years I've studied with him, I've only seen it happen once. I guess you can say the once was the occassion Adam described, but other things don't add up.

"His class resumed into the two man drills and the students went back to their diligent practice. The drills were interesting and were left open-ended to encourage the student to think for himself"

Our classes are not structured such that there are set times for 2 man drills. For one thing, aside from dan chi, lap kuen, and poon sau, we don't do other 2 man drills. As Rene once observed, our training is fairly minimalistic. For another thing, people work on whatever they want to during the class, whenever they want to, with whomever they want to. There isn't a "drill time" portion of the class.

"We both demonstrated our second forms, Chum Kil."

Never seen Ken ask to see a visitor's CK. If he ever does ask a vistor to demonstrate, which is very very rare, it's always been SLT.

"Upon completion of my form...[he] would then ask about my differences, and instead of listening to an explanation, he would immediately begin to say how ineffective it was without even trying to understand the difference. It was if he could not see anything other than what he did! He was right and I was wrong!"

That's doesn't sound like Ken at all.

"He went on to say that his system was better and more effective."

I have never heard him boast like that. First off all, you'd never get him to admit it was "his" system. :) Second of all, he's more likely to show you what he can do than to simply claim he is he is better.

So those are the reasons I don't think Adam was talking about our school. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The article didn't even mention which part of the country he visited, so I have no reason to believe it was around our area. There are a few "big cities" with lots of Wing Chun. New York, LA, SF, Honolulu, to name a few.

Regards,
Alan

[saifa5k]

Hello Alan,
thanks for the great description of Ken's classes, it was very interesting. I have several home made tapes of his spring camps so it is easy for me to follow your description of his classes. I guess the reason I thought McClean was referring to Ken was the comment he made about "old men wing chun". I have heard people make that derogatory comment before because they dont understand, I guess, the emphasis that Ken and Ben put on structure and position. Anyway thanks for you input!
Dave




Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
Hi Dave,

I doubt that the article is talking about Ken's class. In the 4 years I've been with him, attending practically every class, I've witnessed many visitors coming to our class, so I have a fair idea of how vistors are treated. Aside from the fact that I haven't witnessed the encounter Adam described, much of his descriptions don't sound like us.

"Upon my arrival to his school, he welcomed me in to watch and asked if I would like to participate."

Ken has this curious habit of suggesting to a vistor to feel free to watch the class, and then ignoring the vistor for the rest of the class, and not talking to the visitor until he/she approaches Ken again at the end of the class. :) I think he does this to filter out people who aren't serious about the class. He very rarely asks a total stranger to participate. In the 4 years I've studied with him, I've only seen it happen once. I guess you can say the once was the occassion Adam described, but other things don't add up.

"His class resumed into the two man drills and the students went back to their diligent practice. The drills were interesting and were left open-ended to encourage the student to think for himself"

Our classes are not structured such that there are set times for 2 man drills. For one thing, aside from dan chi, lap kuen, and poon sau, we don't do other 2 man drills. As Rene once observed, our training is fairly minimalistic. For another thing, people work on whatever they want to during the class, whenever they want to, with whomever they want to. There isn't a "drill time" portion of the class.

"We both demonstrated our second forms, Chum Kil."

Never seen Ken ask to see a visitor's CK. If he ever does ask a vistor to demonstrate, which is very very rare, it's always been SLT.

"Upon completion of my form...[he] would then ask about my differences, and instead of listening to an explanation, he would immediately begin to say how ineffective it was without even trying to understand the difference. It was if he could not see anything other than what he did! He was right and I was wrong!"

That's doesn't sound like Ken at all.

"He went on to say that his system was better and more effective."

I have never heard him boast like that. First off all, you'd never get him to admit it was "his" system. :) Second of all, he's more likely to show you what he can do than to simply claim he is he is better.

So those are the reasons I don't think Adam was talking about our school. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The article didn't even mention which part of the country he visited, so I have no reason to believe it was around our area. There are a few "big cities" with lots of Wing Chun. New York, LA, SF, Honolulu, to name a few.

Regards,
Alan