Preferred Techniques...

[Spectre]

Ok - with it being understood that a fight should end as quickly as possible, and with good reading skills one should only need a single, well placed punch, what do you consider your TOP three techniques to train and become exceptional at?

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[nathangatling]

Training a certain technique or a group of techniques assumes that you will have a predetermined scenario, which most likely will never be the case when the reality of a fight is occuring. It is better to train and understand principles so the artist can compose destruction impromptu, drawing from an infinite arsenal. JMHO.

[Spectre]

While I can appreciate what you are saying here, do mean to tell me that you can master every single technique in Wing Chun? And can you do this hopefully before the need to fight for your life arises?

As for training techniques in groups, what do you consider SLT, CK, and BJ? Are these forms not techniques in groups?

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[tiger_1]

my friend you have most good and fine theme in last time most hard AND REAL TOPIC , im see inside you have real spirit of kung fu and you can see wing chun im hope cose wing chun cant learn just must see good inisde your mind .- friendly tiger_1 ( im hope for more topic like this and for progres in w.c.)im traninig and im use in fight: tiger-snake(white)-eagle ;)

/

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I think that if you fully grasp the concepts of the art you will find that technique will flow naturally. However, to do this will take time and a great deal of practice. Until you can reach this level I would opt for training the following:
Taun Sau/Gaun Sau and Pak Sau and of course the punch :)

By drilling these three "techniques" with punching you will have a fairly good defense against "most" attacks to above the waist. In addition to these you should practice footwork and even some kicking. But, if you wanted my top three it would be Taun/Gaun/Pak Da.

As an interesting side note many of the top Judoka in the Olympics, while knowing a full range of techniques, will have two or three favorites which they use the majority of the time. While it is better to be well rounded, it could be more efficient to train in a few techniques a lot rather than many a little. Just a thought.

Peace,

Dave

[Spectre]

Thanks for the great post! I was actually asking each individual what their top three favorite or most trained techniques are.

I agree that over a great period of time one should become very proficient at all of the techniques. This is definitely obtained over time not to mention an individual's top three techniques may change due to age, proficiency, or necessity.

There are always cases where opponents will do something out of the norm, but the usual foe will either lead with a punch, a kick, or a shoot to the legs or the body as a whole. I suppose that I am just trying to see what everyone feels is their most essential techniques against the norm.

Once again thanks for the great post.

Continues blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[fei_jai]

All this talk of techniques reminds me of a story my master told.

Quote:-
<HR>
Many years ago, a seventh dan karate master from japan interrupted one of Sifu's classes to challenge the one inch punch. He threw a strike at Sifu. Sifu just lifted his arm to deflect the punch, then reached in quickly to catch him as he fell. The Japanese master was astonished and asked Sifu what technique he had used. Sifu Answered, "no technique - I just raised my arm".

[Spectre]

Does this mean that you do not consider Wing Chun to have techniques?

Or are you just implying that with time it is just a learned response (automatic 'firing' of a technique)?

Continued blessings with life and with training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[Vankuen]

To me, what I get from that story, is that true wing chun is no longer a set of techniques or an external method of tools to stop an attack. It becomes an inherent and spontaneous reaction, simply put, it is the most comforatble and natural reaction from that particular stimulus.

That is is what Im seeing. What he did to a student, may have been fak sau, Biu sau, or whatever...but to the master, he just raised him arm. Great wording. I like that.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[Spectre]

To say that TRUE Wing Chun is no longer techniques but reaction is incorrect. Becoming proficient in Wing Chun simply means that one can use the techniques without thinking about them - they have become an instinct. But do not lose sight - they are still techniques!

To assume that one is so proficient that they are just responses instead of technique assumes that there is nothing more to work on in your Wing Chun.

Is there an end to what you can do with Wing Chun? Is there not always something to improve upon? A technique or 'move' perhaps?

When starting out in Wing Chun do you learn reactions or techniques? Reactions are just techniques practiced so long that the brain automatically fires the technique when needed.

Let's stop trying to sound like a philosophical 'master' who answers without answering! If you cannot answer the question then there is no need to post.

Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[fei_jai]

In my view, the true essence of Wing Chun is not the techniques, but the ability to generate and put power in those techniques.

The story that I had shared illustrates this. Sigung was able to send the Japanese Master back, and neutralise the strike because of the power he was able to generate in the motion of his arm, not because of any specific technique.

For example, in training we learn how to absorb force, but would you call this a specfic technique? The ability to absorb energy can be applied to almost all techniques, but is the process of absorbing oncomming force an actual technique? In my view the answer is no.

[Spectre]

It should not be our objective to absorb energy but to pass or redirect the energy. That does take a technique.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[fei_jai]

IMHO,

Our objective in Wing Chun is to maximise the use of our body mass, as a single coordinated unit.

That is, our entire body weight being projected and focused at a single point on our opponent.

There is no technique for that.

... but that's just what I think.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Spectre, although I do not propogate learning 3 favorite techniques, as I believe that all techniques should be given equal attention, if I were to recommend 3 techniques, these are the three I would recommend:
1. Biu Sao
2.Bong Sao
3.Gan Sao
that way you could cover all three upper body ranges!!!

[Spectre]

I understand where most of you are coming from when you say that we should not just focus on three techniques. We should be able to perform all techniques competently.

However - if someone had an injury to their shoulder, they may not be able to perform the Bong Sau in such a way as to use it as a mainstay technique. So this person may have to compensate by using a different technique which comlements their physical attributes.

As for me - I know which three techniques I prefer right now but that could also change later. My choices may change with age, physical ability, modifications, etc.

I cannot believe that in sparring or real life situations that individuals cannot pick out techniques that they use over others. Do you use a Lop Da over a Taun Da more or less?

This topic was not a means as to educate myself as to what I should study - it is just a topic of curiosity.

Continued blessings in your life and training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[Gazza]

TAN,BONG,FUK

Gary. :eek:

[Roy D. Anthony]

I agree with Fai Jai, the progression of the Wing Chun System is to teach the structure, technique and other tools to then exercise them in your Chi Sao, which then go back to your forms in a cycle. This is to help understand Principles and theories.
When one reaches the Non classical level, all there exists is Principles and Theories, no longer techniques. Techniques become one in favor of results.
Hope this is Understandable.

[Spectre]

So by the sound of your explanation, you feel as if you have reached a level of being 'one with your results' as a progression into principles and theories. Am I understanding yet? My apologies if I am coming across as a bit slow on this.

I can only assume that when you refer to non-classical you are saying that you have surpassed the basics and are in a phase where you are making Wing Chun your own system - tailor made if you will.

We will have to agree to disagree on the terms for technique. I understand that you see them as mere responses that do not require physical thought. I see it as it's simplest form - a technique. Example - you can see a house - but break it down to it's simplest form and you will always get a brick.

My only followup question is this: If you get into a fight (Understanding that you should never find yourself in one to begin with)and get the snot kicked out of you - what do you work on if there is no longer techniques?

No disrespect meant in my posts btw - just curiousity.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[sunkuen]

"throw the techniques out the window" was said by my sifu. :D

[whippinghand]

"what do you work on if there is no longer techniques?"

back to your bricks....

[Spectre]

...the techniques are the bricks that build our house of Wing Chun. We just take for granted the strength and quality of that one brick.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[Roy D. Anthony]

A house hardly needs an architect as it seems to be straight forward in building. A contractor with his basic knowledge can build beautifully designed buildings designed and coordinated by the architect.
Architect or contractor,Which would you rather be?

[whippinghand]

Of course, it takes more than one brick to build a house (structure). When you look at a house do you focus on every single brick. No, you focus on the house.

A brick alone is nothing.

A technique alone is nothing.

[Jeff Brown]

so you are saying, then, that the artist works on improving his art while the craftsman plays with his tools?

[fei_jai]

You say that the bricks are the building blocks of wing chun, and thus want to concentrate more on the bricks.

"The strength and quality of that one brick" is irrelevant if there is no foundation to build the house on, or mortar to hold the bricks together. That is, anyone can stack a pile bricks together, regardless of the quality of bricks. This pile then doesn't qualify as a house. There is more to a house than just bricks.

If you break down a house, the most fundamental component is the foundation. Why not concentrate on building a solid foundation before building up? It can only be good. My definition of the foundation is the stance, and the first form.

[Spectre]

First: There seems to be an assumption that I am a beginner and that I am asking everyone what I should personally work on to be better at Wing Chun. This is not the case - I have only asked what three techniques any of you prefer if it had to come to MORE than just good reading and a well placed fist.

Second: If you do not have three favorites, just say so. If you no longer feel you are at a technique level or that you have surpassed the basics that is fine also - then there is no need to answer.

I recognize that we all have different opinions, be it a 'mystical' opinion, a physics based opinion, or a 'I was always taught this' opinion. It is OK that I see things different than someone else just as it is OK that someone has a different opinion than myself. Such is life.

I personally feel that we NEVER surpass the basics. There is no mastering the basics. There is always room for improvement. If you need more than the basics for self defense than your opponent has read you better than you have read him.

Once again - this is just MHO. It is OK if you disagree with me. I do not strive to be like everyone else. I just strive to understand motivations.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[Roy D. Anthony]

I hope that you didn't get that impression from me, I never assumed you were a beginner. There is difference of opinions amongst colleagues also. Colleagues do differ in levels, even though they started at the same time.
and also I always do practice my basics.
And yes you do have the right to think the way you do, nothing wrong with that.
I may also be to blame for that misunderstanding as I was taught that a Punch was never referred to as a technique. We (my Sifu and I) always spoke of them seperately. My Apologies.

[Spectre]

There is no reason to apologize in this matter. You really did not have a misunderstanding. I was not referring to a punch as a technique.

My question was basically saying this. In an ideal conflict situation, if we read our opponent's setup, movement and reactions correctly, we should be able to move before our opponent and land a punch that ends the fight simply, efficiently and quickly before it really starts.

If we do not read correctly, more than a punch is necessary - this is where techniques come into play. If an opponent throws a hook, we may respond with a bong sao, etc.

I understand what you have been saying regarding non-technique. After you have praticed the techniques long enough they simply become reactions to your opponent's intent. You do not have to think about things in the sense of 'what technique should I use now'.

If you are in a stage in your training where a technique may not be efficient for you, there is a chance that either you are trying to modify it to make it your own, or you may be training it harder. With a preferred technique you may not have any difficulties utilizing it, so there is no need to work further.

Does this make sense? Perhaps my original question just was not clear enough. My apologies if it seemed vagued.

I do thank you for your responses and opinions however since it helps me to understand how others think and train. It also opens my eyes to different points of view that I may not have seen or even considered before.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.