So I have a mma class tonight

[IronFist]

Alright I think I may have finally found a place to train. I was looking through the phonebook and there was a place that said mma/jujitsu (among other things). I called and was like "i'm interested in that class." He told me it had been converted to a Krav Maga class. I was like "eh?" The good news is it's at my new gym which is like 5 minutes away from where I live. He said it's a mixture of boxing, jujitsu (bjj I assume), jkd, etc.

I asked the important question: do you guys spar?

He said yeah.

I was like cool. They train in regular clothes and shoes. I guess that makes it more realistic. I will wear MA pants, a t-shirt, and converse allstars (if we have to wear shoes) because all my other shoes are dress shoes for work.

So, things that I'm excited about:
1. A potential mma class that is close to where I live
2. Being able to train again

Things that I am worried about:
1. It might suck
2. It might deviate from effective mma stuff (ie. what if you walked into a "mma" class and they made you take a sideways karate stance)
3. There might be hardasses in the class
4. I thought I heard him say they grapple on hardwood floors. Ouch. I hope they have mats.

I have two free lessons, and it's $109 a month if I like it. That's a lot, isn't it? But, I can go as much as I want per month. He told me they also have a kickboxing class (16oz gloves) that you can go to as much as you want as well.

Well whatever. I'll let you know how it goes.

[red5angel]

well congratulations. Now you can come back tomorrow after class and bag about how you're trainng for real while everyone who is training traditionally is only fooling themselves :P

[IronFist]

I thought I already did that. :confused:

[norther practitioner]

Hey, now you're getting in more of that dreaded cardio too...

[red5angel]

lol! Well now you can be "certified"!

[IronFist]

Haha. Actually I don't really rag on TMAs. I just say I feel mma is more effective as far as fighting goes. But I won't tell someone they're wrong or they suck for choosing to study a TMA. Maybe it works for them and that's what matters.

[Water Dragon]

Who are you training under?

[IronFist]

I dunno, some guys. I'll find out. I think one of them is some how connected to one of the Gracies. I hope. I think they have a website I can look it up on in the meantime.

Link removed because it doesn't matter.

I'll let you guys know how the class was tonight.

[Shaolinlueb]

i like krav maga, i wish there was some closer schools by me.

[SevenStar]

A couple of red flags:

1. the fact that they converted an mma class to a krav maga class- I smell a money opportunity.


2. I don't have any direct experience with reylson, but many people say (including KFM's own merryprankster and knifefighter) that his program is frowned on by the other gracies and that he is not taken seriously by the general mma/bjj community.

I haven't looked at the site yet - I'll check it out in a bit.

[Kristoffer]

Be open minded but critical. Krav Maga isn't MMA, so if they claim to teach it - ask who they learned it from. If they can name someone that you can check up, no worries. And if you decide to train there and there's some are hard asses, try befriending them so u let them know you want to learn from them, not compete with them.

[IronFist]

Maybe they just called it "Krav Maga" because that will attract more business than "MMA." That being said, no one has really heard of Krav Maga. That being said, isn't Krav Maga supposed to be the latest MA trend? Maybe they're trying to catch the new fad?

Anyway, I care about what they teach, not what they call it.

[SevenStar]

I agree. You didn't say they only changed the name though - you said that it had bene converted to a krav maga class, which is what raised my concern.

[Knifefighter]

Two red flags:
1- Krav Maga
2- Grappling on hardwood floors

[MantisFistMonk]

May I suggest www.ctmma.com ?

[red5angel]

The Krav Maga thing is hard to say, it certainly has become a buzzword as of late. Of course maybe the guy was just really impressed with it and decided to convert because of that. You'll probably know after a few classes.



2- Grappling on hardwood floors

yeah, real hard grapplers would grapple on mats like real men and with real men. :p

[IronFist]

Originally posted by MantisFistMonk
May I suggest www.ctmma.com ?

Sure, but the problem is that I don't live in Connecticut.

[IronFist]

We'll see. He said the sparring includes takedowns and stuff. Maybe I misunderstood about the grappling on hardwood floors. I know the room is carpeted, at least.

I'm used to the normal MMA class format, so I'm hoping that this will be like that.

I'm totally excited, tho. Six more hours.

[Shaolinlueb]

dont they have school listings on mma.tv?

[IronFist]

^ I dunno. I'm at work. You wanna check for me? :p

[Shaolinlueb]

AKF Martial Arts Academy IL Crystal Lake
ALL American Academy of Martial Arts IL Cicero
Cecchine Catch Wrestling IL Addison
Champion Jiu Jitsu IL Carpentersville
Championship Karate & Kickboxing IL Dixon
Championship Karate & Kickboxing II IL Sterling
Force Brazilian Jiu Jitsu IL Hinsdale
Force Brazilian Jiu Jitsu IL Hinsdale
Gilbert Grappling IL Mokena
Gmap school of submission fighting IL Springfield
Gracie Training Association Il Chicago
Great Lakes Submission Fighting Club IL Great Lakes
Hackney's Reality Combat Academy IL Roselle
HillClan Martial Arts and Fitness, LLC. IL Crest Hill
HYBRID FIGHTING ACADEMY IL Hartsburg
Hybrid Fighting Academy IL Lincoln
Karate USA IL Effingham
Linxx Academy of Martial Arts IL Crystal Lake
Maranatha Martial Arts Academy IL Granite City
McVicker Martial Arts Academy IL Champaign
Midwest Training Center il Streamwood
Ohana Martial Arts IL Grayslake
Ohana Martial Arts IL Grayslake
Paths IL Cahokia
Progressive Martial Arts Academy IL Oak Park and Downers Grov
Realistic Martial Arts Training Association IL Carbondale
ROCKFORDS MMA CLASS IL ROCKFORD
Roselle Martial Arts Academy IL Roselle
Roselle Martial Arts Academy IL Roselle
Southern Illinois University Martial Arts Club IL Carbondale
Z'S MARTIAL ARTS ACADEMY IL CARPENTERSVILLE

any of thsoe near you?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
any of thsoe near you?

Not really. I think that last one (Z's) is the home organization of this Krav Maga thing, tho.

[IronFist]

Does anyone know anything about "Krav Maga" they could tell me in the mean time? How is it different from other styles?

[joedoe]

From what I understand it is the style taught to the Israeli special forces and it is supposed to be very brutal. No mucking around, just drop your opponent in the hardest, fastest way possible.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by joedoe
From what I understand it is the style taught to the Israeli special forces and it is supposed to be very brutal. No mucking around, just drop your opponent in the hardest, fastest way possible.

kinda sounds like kung fu to me....... :o :D ;) :p

[SevenStar]

Yeah, but alot of what you see in the states is not quite like that. The facility in my city is full of krav maga brand equipment and has flyers and crap all over the place with testaments to it's effectiveness. They have a pic of a guy all beaten up, and the caption says something like "He now wishes he would've left her alone..." The whole facility looks like one huge mcdojo commercial.

[IronFist]

I just hope it's not like situational preset defenses. That's what a lot of "brutally effective" style's classes are like.

Ok, he comes at you like this (slow, telegraphed punch that would miss by a foot if he actually threw it), and you crouch into secret elder stance, then you perform old man combs his hair and leopard takes a crap fist, then blah blah blah oh btw this stuff is too deadly for the street you know what I mean.

Are there any styles that don't bill themselves as "fast, brutal, effective, no-nonsense, efficient" styles? No style is like "yeah, we're pretty slow and waste a lot of motion..."

[SevenStar]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-07-10-krav-maga.htm

[David Jamieson]

km-

if the facilty is not directly connected to Imi or one of his "made" instructors, don't bother.

IMI IS the source. know that.

look up imi IF and you can find out a bunch about the style and the dude who created it and from what he drew it out of.

start here:

http://kravmagaisraeli.com/EN/f1.htm

then keep going. it is a pretty effective style. as you read more about what imi was about and doing you'll find out some coolio things.

You will likely also find that there are a lot of schools that say they are Krav Maga, but in actuality, they really aren't and they are just co-opting the name to get in on the hype that j-Lo got started with her stupid ass movie "enough" of which i had certainly had!

[jun_erh]

I visited the las vegas shoalin school and there was a krav maga school a few doors down from it. I wonder if there's a rivalry. Chinese vs Hebrew

[David Jamieson]

I wonder if there's a rivalry. Chinese vs Hebrew

nah, Chinese peeps love the Jews. They relate in many ways. lol

[jun_erh]

so are you excited FOX News is coming to your country?

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by jun_erh
I visited the las vegas shoalin school and there was a krav maga school a few doors down from it. I wonder if there's a rivalry. Chinese vs Hebrew


A lot of Jews actually moved to Shanghai around WWII

[Chang Style Novice]

No style is like "yeah, we're pretty slow and waste a lot of motion...As a taiji guy, I respectfully disagree!

[ShaolinTiger00]

Chinese vs Hebrew

I kid you not, I had a buddy who worked as a busboy in a Chinese-Kosher restaraunt called "Ginsberg-Wong" !! I always asked him if the sweet pork was kosher :D


Here is the thing with Krav Maga. A good KM school actually does spar using muay thai, boxing, some grappling, bjj, knife & gun defenses (always suspect imho) and are a good to fair self defense school for the general public.

BUT KM has *****d itself out with the "certification" thing, so you get Marty TKD suddenly becomes a "certified Krav Maga instructor" and you end up learning 10% KM, and 90% TKD because that's what he really knows..

Go visit the class and check it out.

you want mma - go find mma. even if they are good, krav maga is not mma. different animal.

[red5angel]

Krav Maga, atleast from what I've seen, is really similar to Kali in a lot of ways. It's claim to fame is that the Israeli military uses it, and since they "See combat" all the time, it's tried and tested. Of course I know a lot of soldiers that don't know more then what they were taught in basic training for nad to hand combat and they seem to be surviving just fine without krav maga.
It's other claim to fame, and what's made it popular was that movie with Jennifer Lopez in it. There was a hug boom after that.

My personal feeling is this: Just like almost all the other arts out there, it depends on how much time your willing to put into learning it. It depends on how good your instructors are at teaching it and how deep their own knowledge is on the subject. It depends on if the school is layed out to teach you or to take your money. Too many things ot say about it other then to check it out, spend a month going to classes as often as possible, and then see how you feel about it.



From what I understand it is the style taught to the Israeli special forces and it is supposed to be very brutal. No mucking around, just drop your opponent in the hardest, fastest way possible.


right, what art doesn't claim that?

[red5angel]

A good KM school actually does spar using muay thai, boxing, some grappling, bjj, knife & gun defenses

uh, when do they teach Krav Maga?


my own opinion is tainted. A short time after the craze hit, a local school, owned by a guy who claims to have mastered every art that they teach there (he can throw some punches and kicks but apparently his idea of certification and mastery is taking some basic classes so he can pull of signature moves to impress new comers. They picked up Krav Maga. If it's that easy to pick up and be certified to teach, I have to suspect it's validity as a real fighting art.

[joedoe]

See, this is why I don't post serious answers here very often. You try and help someone out by giving them a bit of information and suddenly everyone jumps on your ass over what you have said or the way you word it.

Fine, every art tries to drop your opponent in a fast, brutal, efficient way. Except mine of course because we like to screw around when there is a fight on.

[David Jamieson]

so are you excited FOX News is coming to your country?

yep, about as excited as i was with NBC, ABC, CBS, HBO, CNN, Fox, TBS, etc etc et fuggin cetera. lol

I'm certain it will have it's appeal. But, it's cable only, so most canadians won't be watching, same as they don't watch a lot of american cable shows.

We do have a thing about centricity to our own productions and frankly many of our own shows are much bigger hits than a great deal of murcan stuff.

man you guys get a lot of crappy crappy shows...for instance Hope and Faith, wtf is that about? terrible terrible stuff.

however, I gotta hand it to other shows.

But as for american news, well, in all honestly, many if not most of us will continue to view our locals for news, and the big 2. CBC and CTV.

[red5angel]

wtf is hope and faith? Sounds like a good lesbian porno to me

[jun_erh]

kung lek- fox will put your news out of business if the socialist college professors don't get it banned, which they will like they did Stern.



One sort of good thing to come out of terrorism for the jews, their security people and concepts are highly sought out and people give krav maga alot of respect.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by red5angel
yeah, real hard grapplers would grapple on mats like real men and with real men. Pretty much impossible to learn decent grappling without mats.

[IronFist]

Alright I just got back.

It was another style so I tried to do things their way, but my old habbits (like crazy monkey boxing) kept coming back. They said hold your "hands out further, this isn't boxing." So, I tried, but it felt really awkward cuz it's not what I'm used to.

We did a warmup drill where you pair up and go to slap each other in the shoulder and the other guy blocks it. I was told the correct way to block is to kind of reach out for it, which I am totally not used to. Anyway, whatever, stylistic differences.

That was the only alive thing that we did. We did some punching drills (lined up in rows, in the air), and then some knee drills against a pad. An interesting thing was the fact that both jab and cross were done with a vertical fist. There was no aliveness, no resistance.

The fact that he said you can't spar until you've been going there for 4 months, plus the lack of aliveness, plus the lack of grappling means I won't be going back. He said they only do a little grappling.

Anyway, whoever told me it was Boxing/BJJ/MMA on the phone was quite wrong.

So, I'm not saying it's a bad school, it's just not my thing. The instructors I talked to were all kinda nice. I talked to them for a bit before I left. When I told them I went to a submission school for a little bit, I was told "well, that stuff is more sport oriented and we're more concerned with ending the fight right away." That statement opens up a huge can of worms so I'm not going into it here, but I replied with "oh, I see." Then I thanked them for letting me participate in their class before I left

[MantisFistMonk]

Originally posted by IronFist
Sure, but the problem is that I don't live in Connecticut.

Sorry, I thought you lived in New Haven, which in no way explains the Norfair location I have now just noticed.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
Alright I just got back.

It was another style so I tried to do things their way, but my old habbits (like crazy monkey boxing) kept coming back. They said hold your "hands out further, this isn't boxing." So, I tried, but it felt really awkward cuz it's not what I'm used to.

out further like what? the thai boxers in movies?


We did a warmup drill where you pair up and go to slap each other in the shoulder and the other guy blocks it. I was told the correct way to block is to kind of reach out for it, which I am totally not used to. Anyway, whatever, stylistic differences.

that would raise a red flag with me. did you ask them why they reach? It would also raise a flag that they slapped at the shoulder... Why would I block a blow coming to my shoulder? IMO, you should actually aim for the head.


The fact that he said you can't spar until you've been going there for 4 months, plus the lack of aliveness, plus the lack of grappling means I won't be going back. He said they only do a little grappling.

the school near me is like that. you have to be a level 3. Some of the guys from my club and I went there one day to do some sparring, because they told us they'd be there. When we got there, nobody showed...we waited for like 30 mins. Afterward when someone called them, they said that we had to be level 3s in order to spar anyway.

Anyway, whoever told me it was Boxing/BJJ/MMA on the phone was quite wrong.

sorry about the bad experience... what about the list of schools lube posted?

[Internal Boxer]

What I find interesting is that once you have been introduced to "liveness training" you can never be conned!

[IronFist]

^ I know, right? My training at Straight Blast Gym made me incredibly critical of training now. I wish I still lived closer to that school.

[IronFist]

By SevenStar


out further like what? the thai boxers in movies?

No. Out further like get in a boxing stance and then move the left hand forward 12-14" and the right one forward 8". Palms facing each other.


that would raise a red flag with me. did you ask them why they reach?

I didn't ask. I don't want to be the guy who goes to someone's school and goes "why do you guys do it this way? that's wrong." etc.


It would also raise a flag that they slapped at the shoulder... Why would I block a blow coming to my shoulder? IMO, you should actually aim for the head.

Aiming for the head is probably too realistic. What I mean is, someone might get tapped in the head and not want to take the class anymore. Then again, it was just a warmup (altho it was more "alive" than any of the "training" we did).


sorry about the bad experience... what about the list of schools lube posted?

They're all kinda far away. I live in a big corporate town. There's not many MA schools here. I just found out my friend from college lives pretty close and he goes to a bjj school somewhere. I should find out where and go with him, but he's been really busy since we all graduated and started working.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
No. Out further like get in a boxing stance and then move the left hand forward 12-14" and the right one forward 8". Palms facing each other.

hmm...like they're establishing a distance they want to keep you at? It would help you gauge a strike in relation to how close toyour face it is, I guess.



I didn't ask. I don't want to be the guy who goes to someone's school and goes "why do you guys do it this way? that's wrong." etc.

that's not it at all. Don't tell them it's wrong. But, you need to understand why you're being shown something. If you don't wanna disrupt the class, then ask afterward. There's never any harm in asking a question.


Aiming for the head is probably too realistic. What I mean is, someone might get tapped in the head and not want to take the class anymore. Then again, it was just a warmup (altho it was more "alive" than any of the "training" we did).

That's the whole point. We call that an "integrity check". If you are punching at to the left of my face and not directly at it, for example

1. I get used to slipping too shallowly, if at all.
2. I get used to parrying too face off my center
3. you get used to punching beside the face
4. etc.

if you punch and I mess up, I get hit. So what. that's what control is for. They also make protection...

[IronFist]

^ I agree.