Shaolin Five animals tapes from Steve DeMasco

[thutn]

Hello,
Has anyone watch his tapes? If you did please tell me a little about it.

if you don't know what i'm talking about: click here.

http://blackbeltshop.com/kung_fu_videos.htm

thanks.

[mortal]

Watered down karate with different fists represnting the "animal style" he is imitating.

I would some it up in one word.

Gay.

[dimmakseminar]

Dear mortal:

When referring to the word "Gay", are you defining it as "with h.omosexual tendencies" or as "with happy tendencies". I'm certain that many readers would like to know so as to avoid confusion, as many people enjoy happy videos, whereas probably only a select few would enjoy h.omosexual videos. Please advise.

Sincerely,

dimmakseminar

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by dimmakseminar
Dear mortal:

When referring to the word "Gay", are you defining it as "with h.omosexual tendencies" or as "with happy tendencies". I'm certain that many readers would like to know so as to avoid confusion, as many people enjoy happy videos, whereas probably only a select few would enjoy h.omosexual videos. Please advise.

Sincerely,

dimmakseminar

.001

[Li Nin KiT]

go learn at a school u knob

[David Jamieson]

I would question the overall validity of the black Tiger stuff in particular.

a) it is a recent creation it seems, put up to fill a void because shaolin black tiger did not exist in the temple curriculum.... until now. However, Shaolin Black tiger has been practiced outside the temple for some time before the recent refilling of the Henan temple and what not.

b) i've seen the form and frankly it doesn't resemble black tiger much and even lacks much of the fu jao use. (i've seen BT from several families now and though they are different, they share some common principles whereas the Shaolin version has little if any of these principles in their new form).

If nothing else, 5 animals forms are fighting forms i.e they are robust with techniques that are applicable to combat. The current Shaolin versions of these appear to be more of a contemporary wushu variant of that expression, which in turn is martially "dead". Not that it doesn't take effort and athleticism to do these forms, but, they, in my opinion, aren't exactly rwadily applicable to fighting without some adaptation.

Kungfu forms, in my opinion, should express martiality with every move and in turn, every move should be readily extractable for drilling as a combat tool. I find that in modern Shaolin, this is surprisingly not the case and all too often.

ah well, but now i'm getting into dead horse territory :p

[thutn]

Thanks guys, but I need some more details.
So, this is not the original shaolin forms?

thanks.

[David Jamieson]

There probably isn't really such a thing as "original shaolin forms".

the nature of kungfu dictates that it doe not remain the same over time. It must be flexible and adapt to suit the people and times it is in.

Sure, there are some old forms around, but this is an exception and not the norm.

The Shaolin temple as we see it today is a modern incarnation that has been recreated as a ways and means of re-establishing the order and meeting a need that is demanded by the public.

The order will never again be what it was 1000 years ago, and 100 years ago, it wasn't as it was originally. Shaolin is constantly in flux, constantly changing to meet the time it exists in.

If you want to learn really old style kungfu, the Shaolin has one or two bits and pieces of it, but the folk masters (as has been stated before) in and around the temple propogate the older traditional styles and older styles still have been removed from the temple for a great deal of time, probably somewhere in the area of 5 or 7 lifetimes. Hence we have the southern styles, and the general diaspora of kungfu practice to the world both of taoist and of buddhist origin.

anyone who tells you they have "the original" shaolin is quite frankly pulling your leg. All shaolin is a great body of stuff ranging from traditional to their own forms of contenporary wushu.

It will rise and fall, settle and scatter as it has always done. This is not a valid reaons to not begin though. :p

[MasterKiller]

DeMasco lies. Next question?

[norther practitioner]

So, this is not the original shaolin forms?

big bag-o-worms...

but some don't call it gong fu.

[richard sloan]

lol @ mortal and DMS...

KL- there are quite a few moves that have nothing to do with combat in old Shaolin forms.

Lots of Buddhist stuff, even in something like yi jin jing.

For a disciple, there are a few things DeMasco is clueless over- far be it for me to point them out.

He is obviously raking in major ducats. I openly laughed at his book and have visited a few of his studios just to study their pitch. It's pretty funny. He needs to have an older brother dress him the hell down.

[mortal]

Hey Rich

Long time no talk.

Dms is funny for a total geekasuarus!

[David Jamieson]

there are quite a few moves that have nothing to do with combat in old Shaolin forms.

There are entire forms that are not combat oriented at all...seeing as you brought it up. :p

[Michaelwalter77]

The shaolin 5 animals tapes that he is offering are ok, but not the shaolin that we know. Good for enjoyment but that is about it. I cant go into explicit detail but, I was a long time student of one of his affiliates. This style was pretty much created by him and Fred Villari in the late 70s and early 80s it is a kempo system. Kempo loosley translated means "china hand" in Japanese. Karate was booming in the 60s and 70s. Karate also had a specific carricilum so no matter what Gojuryu school you went to they were teaching the same forms in the same order. That is where kempo came into play. If you wanted to create a style but it didnt match what other schools were teaching you could say that it was kempo (Japanese karate derived from chinese style). Therefore it could not be traced or verified. Not to say that demasco is doing this. There are some phenominal kempo practitioners (Keith Hakney, Chuch Liddel). Also Shorinji Kempo is a devastating style.
Just remember that Kempo is Karate not Kung Fu, and many kempo people have created their system. It may be practical, but it is not rooted in traditionalism.

[pazman]

Kenpo loosely translated mean 'boxing method'

Kenpo is not karate.

Demasco is a crock.

All loose ends are now tied.

[richard sloan]

...if you are referring to the laughable scorpion and toad forms I will agree, but those aren't old shaolin forms...I think those forms should be under a special classification, How To Get Owned in One Easy Move.

I meant like the 108 Lohan and stuff.

Anthony, did you really say geekasaurus, lol...

[David Jamieson]

hey rich, yes, there are qigongs built into some forms and there is a surprising similarities to the warior postures of tibetan arguing style wherein the monks as they persuade each other assume asanas that represent the power of the god they are invoking.

Ok, that's a very loose description and I will take my caning for that, but just saying that the arhat postures found within some forms of the Lohan set are not there for combat purposes but for chi flow, strength, discipline in difficulty etc etc.

I wasn't refering to dubious forms of recent creation to fill out a wallet with the green chi. :p

[johngreenhow]

I love some of those animal imitation forms - beware the fearsome fighting spirit of the, um, frog...

[Dark Knight]

I was a long time student of one of his affiliates. This style was pretty much created by him and Fred Villari in the late 70s and early 80s it is a kempo system.

Actually Villari came up with it, Steve came into the picture much later.

Keith Hakney does a style of Kenpo that was from Parker Kenpo, but he has changed what he does over the last 10 years.

[Dark Knight]

The style of Kempo that Steve teaches is made up from Karate styles, the Pionions and Katas are generic forms you can find in other style. The combinations started with Nick Cerio then Villari added to them when he broke off on his own.

The information above 1st degree was developed by Villari and his higher ranking people.

When Steve left Villari he got involved with Mattera and they have been adding to the advanced level information. I am not sure if it is authentic or their versions.

All the under Black belt stuff remains the same from Villari, that is a Karate base.

Effectivness will depend on how you train as with any style.

[richard sloan]

in the clubs, it was just known that as soon as anyone puffed their cheeks out you should just run away, lol...

Some of the animal styles you could understand the imitation. Like Tiger. Pretty obvious. I'll even give you crane, as I've seen plenty of sea birds kick the **** out of fish or crabs unlucky enough to get washed up...

The only thing I've ever seen a frog do is tag bugs with it's tongue and get eaten by snakes. I mowed over a few once in my backyard and felt pretty crappy about it, made up for it the next year when I got into a fistfight with this toolbox down the street for sticking firecrackers in a frog's mouth and lighting them up.

Anyway, Toad in the X-men did some damage, lol...most of the animal forms seem to try and capture the essence of the animal so wouldn't it make sense, if you are going to do a toad or frog, that you have a weapon that represents the tongue...I mean, IF you have to...

As far as Steve DeMasco, even though he is my disciple brother technically, he's corny and needs to clean up his game. There's more to Shaolin than making donations to the Abbot and I think he's got a lot of sack presenting "Shaolin."

What's with this testing stuff at the Temple, being branded with monks in attendance as if that lends a stamp of authenticity and credibility, not to mention the belt ceremonies...

They put out a poster for their seminars that was LACED with errors any true Shaolin would find embarassing.