The 3 phases model of classical Wing Chun

[yellowpikachu]

This post is copied here for discussion of different points of view. If you dont like it ignore it.


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THUS, I have heard,

Classical Wing Chun Kuen methodology of fighting in 1800's similar to the Classical Fujian arts such as White Crane of Fujian. is design with the following concept platform.



3 phase of fighting.
( 3 phases, if one is going to un-naturally model or snap short forcefully to seperate the one nature ACTION with theory. for conventional sake, since in the reality the sequence of the 3 phase can be overlap.....etc)


1, doesnt matter who starts the attack/strike/kick....
one can press other to make others starts the first attack or one can strike....bla bla bla ect... doesnt matter. it has to start some where.

generally, Wing Chun Rather not fire the first PHYSICAL stike or doing any silly post -- as it said in the Kuen Kuit -- using silence to subdue the action. Use the brain more! and ALWAYS the AWARENESS

Nothing is fixed. so,
As kuen kuit also said Probe with the Yee and ask with the Jing (power). probe the move, ask the intensity of action. if ask and no reply, strike in direct...... etc..


2, once the attack started, make contact or link without contact or close gap sense and response. This is about TAAP (of TAAP Sau) and Chi to decide which Door to get in. --- as the kuen kuit said --- comes recieve. Goes send...


3, when the gap is confirm, make use/breaking the incoming MOMENTUM to score the opponents. This is about. POON (as Poon Sau )--- dealing with momentum. as the kuen kuit said --- comes recieve. Goes send, Lat Sau Jek Choong (disengage after make use/break... the momentum vectors). one can use intercept here seal of here.....ect



Notice, it said make use/breaking the Incoming MOMENTUM. DEALing with the MOMENTUM not the hands or legs or.....ect. Well, Momentum means feet/body/arms/intention ...everything. foot work is a component of the MOMENTUM at any instant of time.

So, where is the Ken Geng or inch power is critical? The 1st, 2nd phase rely on the AWARENESS / Sensing/ Awareness/ Flow. The 3rd phase rely strongly one the inch power which is multi-dimentional and speedy acceleration beside all the requirements of the 2nd phase since one needs the fast power supply to supply power as it needs to deal with momentum.






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A question is does one even get to the 3rd phase today? or the fight is over in the 2nd , or continously break up and restart at the 2nd? crashing force with force? competing speed with opposite straight momentum.


another quesition is --- does today's training has or equip with the holistic training needed to qualify one to satisfy the classical WCK's 2nd and 3rd phase flow?

another question is without the speedy power generation of short/inch/stunt power...called it anything., the 3rd phase is not fluent since speedy changing of force vector is one of the core key for the flow. so what kind of power generation is used mostly today?


From the 3 phases, one can see this is very different from today's so Called southern Shao Lin system where lots of Kiu Sau hand technics was emphasis instead of the flow of momentum, the capability of generating shock power, and heavy utilization of AWARENESS (which is an observation iteration system) instead of set fomulars (which is an approaximation system ). Wing Chun seems to be an observation iteration system come with some basic power generation, awareness traing, philosophy of the style. instead of the Approaximation system comes with a sets of programs, fomulars, technics which was invented some era in the past to approaximately fit the reality or one size fit all, and have some grand master who knows it all to protect the Truth. Wing Chun is not that case, it is an iteration system with life which tracking the reality which changes, thus, oldest and most original doesnt mean the greatest if it is off the iteration track. IMHO


another question is how far have one's WCK de-tour compare with the classical Wing Chun Kuen?


As kuen kuit said, hand moves and not move legs, one has no idea what is what. move body and not moves hand, one will be strike.... straigt Poon is similar to two Bulls figthing force with force ..... all those old Kuen kuits.. how much do we still remember, comprehend, and practice today? or we build our own WCK out from whatever we like, hung gar, shao lin, Zen, Bah Gau, Wu Taiji, Boxing, dragon style, Bjj ..... anything and then go out and write books, advertise, or beat others to make our Wing Chun the most legitimate?


Happy Thanks giving.

[old jong]

As always,it is function over form but we need good form to activate function!...;)

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
As always,it is function over form but we need good form to activate function!...;)

Very true and one thing often forgoten is that there are conditioning process specific for different style or way or methodology execution.

When those conditioning methods and processes lost. The style or methodology can lost as much as 80% of its effectiveness.

just some thoughts.

[old jong]

Thus!...(I like that word!) the need to fill the holes with other stuff!...The "technique vs technique" mentality!...The crostraining obsession (aldo there is nothing wrong in having multi interests)!...The compulsive need of convincing others in order to convince ourselves!...The agressive ego resulting of diffuse insatisfactions and lack of trust!...ETC ETC...

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by old jong
Thus!...(I like that word!) the need to fill the holes with other stuff!...... The compulsive need of convincing others in order to convince ourselves!...


Not so easy and straight forward to build or rebuild a holisitc picture in this " constant needed of iteration/update" world isnt it? eventhought it can be done. But, what is the side effect of the holes filling without the big picture? even with the big picture, what is the limitation?

Need to have a full view or big picture of what is going on in the past and evolution to interpolate or extapolate, just a very Big Job.


One can find from the video clips/pictures that people around the world is evolving their WCK art and sets. By comparing what we can get hold on in the 1960 and today's. But then, IMHO, Boxing or TKD or Shao Lin hard/speed or karate side kick style of power generation might not fit the classical platform well.



straight line approximation model is a great invention to build the basic however when the world become complex and the needs to deal with multi-diamentional force vectors flow momentum, the classical multi-diamentional flow iterative model might be more usefull then the straight line approximation model. Thus, filling the hole with straight line approximation model might not do well because the world has called for another two axis of degree of freedom.


Perparps the search of Chuck Geng/Ken Geng will be a next wave to fill the hole of power geneartion and lead to the move on to the multi-diamentional force vectors flow iteration model platform.
Who knows? since no one has a crystal ball to see the future.

and the localization evolution continous.


The compulsive need of convincing others in order to convince ourselves! IMHO is the last struggle before given up ; at least it shows a weak confident on the subject. IMHO, compulsive convincing is not going to change the facts. Thus, after awhile we all move on when we get into this track.

Searching and observe/study might present a better chance of to continous on and grow because searching and observe/study are action item where convincing with words/logic mind is non-action item which bring the art no where.

One cannot do a project. One cannot do a project with listing of non-action item. One can only do an action item once a time until every action item in the project complete. But then, one needs to see the big picture and the detail in the same time with constant iterative of the action items due to the only non change is changing itself.


just some thoughts

[old jong]

The compulsive need of convincing others in order to convince ourselves! IMHO is the last struggle before given up ; at least it shows a weak confident on the subject. IMHO, compulsive convincing is not going to change the facts. Thus, after awhile we all move on when we get into this track.

The same reflex as the smoking again guy who try to get his entourage to "stop quitting"!...;) A sign of failure.Resignation would be a better choice and provide for an opportunity to start again in a better adapted activity for the individual.