Pai Lum, your thoughts and opinions?

[unixfudotnet]

Have you heard of Pai Lum?
What do you think about it? as an art? as a complete system?
Have you met Pai Lum students? GM Daniel Pai?

Just curious of how Pai Lum exists in the minds of those in the cma community...

Since it is really all I know, I can not see it outside the box as I am in the box.

Please do not let this morph into a flame war and full of negativity :D

Thanks in advance for your time :)

[SevenStar]

I'm moving this to the mantis forum. yu shan, oso, bung bo and others there train pai lum and can answer any question you may have.

[SevenStar]

oops.... after re-reading it, I shoulda left it where it was. BTL, please move this back to the main forum.

[Kymus]

I trained in Pai Lum for a little while under Robert Hurley. It's a good system - they train you more on the soft stuff first which is much different than any other system I've done. I eventually had to drop it for financial reasons though; but if I had the time I wouldn't mind doing it again.

[sayloc]

Like many other syles pai lum is a combination of different styles. It was developed back in the late sixties and early seventies. It grew to be a large system at that time, having many schools around the country. Then as many other systems it kind of broke up over politecal problems.

Now it is growing very stronge again under the current head of the system. It seems he is doing a great job.

Some of the systems that Pai Lum borrowed from are Hung Ga, Northern Shaolin, Choy li Fut, Jow ga and okinawan karate. I can give you a break down of which forms in pai lum came from which system if you like.

What I like about the pai lum is that they teach some fairly in depth fighting theories. They also teach aplications for the forms, they called them forms defense maneuvers. You had to know how to use your techniques in self defense situations before you moved onto the next level. They also had a collection of around 200 self defense techniques that where very to the point and effective. I am not sure how they teach now.

They are very serious about their fighting. I believe DK Pai was the first president of the US Koushou federation. If you have ever seen the Lei Tai fights in baltimore you know that is serious bussiness. I would suggest anyone who finds themselves a good fighter to go there and test your skills, it can be a blood bath. Even though they wear face shields there is still numerous broken noses and cut faces.

If you are just looking for fighting then you found a good place (depending on the teacher) and if things havent changed to much.

But if you are looking for an indepth CHINESE art then you should probably look else where.

Have a good day

[BeiTangLang]

BAck at cha man! LOL!

[Starchaser107]

there's a Pai Lum school here that's run by a Karate Blue belt it seems very sketchy so immediately that coloured my opinion of pai lum,
the students didn't look all that great , but i guess they were beginners, I'll tell you if i happen to see them again...but it left me with a bad taste in my mouth to be quite honest.

However after looking at the website , I could see how it could be a decent thing to learn, if one is not too concerned with mish mash styles and systems...
if the fighting is as good as Soyloc says then I figure thats what matters most..
At the end of the day isn't what martial arts is all about?

[Oso]

Originally posted by SevenStar
oops.... after re-reading it, I shoulda left it where it was. BTL, please move this back to the main forum.

LMAO



Pong Lai

Pai Lum



Seven, maybe you do need a few more hours of sleep than you think.

I can see it now "Pong Lai vs. Pai Lum: You be the judge"

the next great debate.


:p

[Starchaser107]

maybe he was thinking wah lum

[Oso]

heaven forbid.....

[Starchaser107]

sorry for cursing

[SevenStar]

ROFL!!!!

my bad... I'm REALLY BUSY at work today - not paying a lot of attention to kfm because of it. :D

[Oso]

SC, naw, I don't have any beef w/ Wah Lum. I am pretty much the only pong lai'er that isn't ex wah lum though.


Seven, it was really freaking funny...

[PaiLumDreamer]

That makes three on the forum that train Pai Lum (that I know of). Nice to meet you! Becca does, and so do I. I think we all three train in different branches, though.


But if you are looking for an indepth CHINESE art then you should probably look else where.

Sayloc: Thats not really true. Pai Lum is a very in depth Chinese art. In my school, we teach kenpo on a totally different curriculum. There is Kung Fu, Tai Chi, and Kenpo. All three are in depth systems which make up Pai Lum as a whole.

Also, I feel Pai Lum is a very traditional art. The only difference with other CMAs out there is how the classroom is run. Instead of the sterotyped kwoon, I consider my school a lot like an academy. It is in no way any easier, mind you. There are no "Pay, sign here, here is your black belt!" type ideals. Everything we do is done through hard work. Every instructor ranking individual you see will have worked his or her butt off 110% to get there.

Enough ranting, lol.

Anyway,

in response to unixfus original question...I think Pai Lum is an awesome art. Why else would I train in it? It is a very complete system...so much that I get a little dwarfed with everything there is to learn. I am very content with what I am given. Like most any art, its only as effective as the practitioner makes it. With everything it gives me, I feel I could excel in any facet of "martial arts". Not that I do, mind you...but the potential is there. So far there has been nothing that I would want to learn that I cant.

[MonkeySlap Too]

The first 'cma' system I ever encountered was an offshoot of Pai Lum. The teacher was a crazy, mean b@stard who could fight like a demon. I don't consider it as sophisticated as things I've learned since - I see serious 'leaks' in the methodology, but they did produce some bruisers.

[PaiLumDreamer]

An offshoot of Pai Lum? There have been people which have been kicked out, since they decided to change training methods and such. The person you came in contact with may have been one of those people...or maybe not.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Chi Ling Pai

Founded by a guy named Dennis Decker. He was a 2nd black in Pai Lum, also had dan drades in some JMA and a smattering of other things like Black Tiger and Eagle Claw.

I never got along with the other students except for a few friends - matters of character, you see. I never claim the system, but I learned a lot of it while a teenager.

You can web search it. There are some sites now. Some of the stuff claimed by Decker is obvious BS, but to this day I look at footage of him - he was very, very good despite the gobbely-gook.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Ill ask my instructor about him and see if I can get any info. Now im curious.

[sayloc]

Pai lum dreamer

I checked out the texas web site and watched some of the clips. It seems that they added a few more forms with a little more chinese flavor. I dont think these were in the original pai lum though.

The Pai lum does have some of the chinese custumes. I just think if I would want to learn tiger crane form I would prefer to learn it form the origial source, hung ga. It would be better to get it from hung ga and not in outer tiger. If I wanted to learn lau ga kuen I would rather learn it from hung ga and not flowing one. The same for the rest of the adopted forms. I have Tiger crane , Taming tiger, lau gar from the hung ga and I also have outer tiger, Taming tiger, and flowing one from pai lum. The pai lum forms do seem to be missing alot compared to the hung ga forms.

But I have to say again the Pai Lum system does produce some very good fighters.

I like the Pai lum.

As far as Decker, you may not like what you find out.

Have a good day.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Sayloc,

The clips on www.kungfuschool.com are mostly just demo things put together for the public. They arent how the actual form is done :P Lol. On "Crane and Tiger" (a good example of this) they actually added in things that werent in the original form. That was just for show.

Also...you brought up something that sparked my interest. You said you learned forms from Hung Ga AND Pai Lum which were supposed to be the same, but the Pai Lum forms were missing moves/what not. Do you have a video camera/or are you able to get these forms onto the computer? I would really like to see the differences and similarities. If you cant, no big deal :D.

Since I havnt had much experience with many other CMAs, I may be a little biased. Im here to learn as much as everyone else.

Thanks!

[sayloc]

pailumdreamer

If you do a search on the southern forum you can find some video clips of tiger and crane. Do you know outer tiger from Pai Lum? If you do you will notice it is obviously based on the tiger crane form but much different. You will also notice that the outer tiger is only the tiger part of tiger and crane it stops at where the crane picks up (It is called outer tiger not crane) If you do not know it ask a sihing to perform it for you.

I will add that the pai lum taming tiger is much closer to the original Hung ga version. In fact I still train the pai lum version, close enough and just didnt want to take the time to change over. If you look at white swan form you will notice it is almost the same as shorin ryu rohai. It just has some sweeps in it.

Godenfist is wth out a doubt Kenpo.

I suggest you do your research. Not to prove that your style is good but to learn more about it.

Some of the forms are close to the original and are still very nice and effective.

The problem with forms from so many styles is that from one form to the next the whole way the application is applied or performed is completly different. I think it is hard to train in such a way. It is almost like starting all over again everytime you learn another form. I am talking about the sutff from 30 years ago it may be a completly different system by now.

I did have a senior pai lum instructor tell me that hung ga came from pai lum. That one is hard to swallow.

Have a good day.

[unixfudotnet]

Also another thread here on Pai Lum, please check it out :)

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=32445&goto=newpost

[unixfudotnet]

I did have a senior pai lum instructor tell me that hung ga came from pai lum. That one is hard to swallow.

either you misunderstood or he is a moron. no one at my school would make such statements.

[sayloc]

No I did not misunderstand. He told me that DK Pai told his instructor that the hung ga came from pai lum.

Has nothing to do with the current Pai lum organization. It is from the old Pai lum.

I would doubt that Pai would say anything like that. Pai probably told the guy alot of Pai lum comes from hung ga .

[unixfudotnet]

right ;)