Sifu

[sayloc]

Would anyone like to share what their requirments are to be a Sifu?

How many years training?

What forms, fighitng drills etc....

Do they have to meet any kind of moral standard?

Do you teach them any people/business skills?

Thanks

[-N-]

Originally posted by sayloc
Would anyone like to share what their requirments are to be a Sifu? By definition:

- know your stuff
- have students

N.

[Three Harmonies]

FYI
Sifu (Shrfu in Mandarin) is a loosely used title primarily adopted by westerners. The majority of mainland Chinese do not ever use this term that loosley translates to "teacher - father." It should not be viewed as a rank, as it is not. The proper way to say teacher is "laoshi." This is the common, polite term to use.
Shrfu is usually reserved for once someone has become adopted into a family. Since symbolically you are adopted into a family, then your teacher is considered your father. Hence shrfu, or "teacher - father."
There is a bit more to it, but I will spare you a long post. Check out my article on my site about Discipleship ceremonies, or you can view a severely edited version in January 2005 issue of IKF.
Thought you may like to know.

Jake

[sayloc]

Thanks for the info. Yes I was aware it worked like that. I am still looking forward to reading your article. I am sure I still have alot to learn!

Let me word it differently.

What are your requirments for someone to begin teaching students on their own? Not just help out in class, but to operate their own school unsupervised.

How many years training?

What forms, fighitng drills etc....

Do they have to meet any kind of moral standard?

Do you teach them any people/business skills?

I hope this clears up the question.

Thanks

[yu shan]

Legitimat thread, not sure you are going to get your answer though. I was told... go teach.

[SaMantis]

I see what you're asking ... it's tough to answer correctly, because each of those questions will have a different answer depending on the sifu (and on the student IMO).

Some systems have a firmly defined structure, with ranks/levels, testing requirements, minimum required knowledge, etc. Others aren't nearly so well defined. For example, a college friend of mine began studying CMA about the same time I did, except he worked with a sifu who was starting his own school while I went to Wah Lum. 1 year later, he had a longfist form, the Yang tai chi long form, and some bagua basics down, and he was assistant-teaching most of the classes. In the meantime, I was prepping for my 10A test and still doing a lot of stancework, forget about being a teacher that soon. So it all depends.

[yu shan]

Absolutely good to here from you! Interesting story about the college guy, did he have previous training? And for petes sakes, you only got 10A material in one year? Anyway, it would be nice if you would post here more often! :cool:

[-N-]

Originally posted by yu shan
Legitimat thread, not sure you are going to get your answer though. I was told... go teach. Yep, that's how my teacher did it too. Only then would a student teach others or open a school. There was a student who taught his friends without permission. He was disowned and told not to come back to class.

My best friend in high school was learning from my teacher at the time. I wasn't in the class, and it was understood that my friend couldn't teach me and that I would not ask him to do so. However, if we sparred, and he kicked my @$$, and I figured out something useful from time to time... that couldn't be helped. So we sparred a lot ;)


Originally posted by SaMantis
I see what you're asking ... it's tough to answer correctly, because each of those questions will have a different answer depending on the sifu (and on the student IMO).Yep.

N.

[SaMantis]

thanks, yu shan. I've been pretty busy lately -- ya know, livin' the big city life.

My college pal had previous experience in goju ryu. And we were in the school's judo club (nothing else available in the area back then, but it was a good experience). So he already had a handle on martial arts, and constantly looked for books & info on everything he could think of. I think he was just ready when the opportunity came along.

Me, I'm just realll sloooow with this CMA stuff. Taking the 10A test in 9 months-1 year was average at the Temple though (10B test, then 10A). After that, some folks shoot ahead while others take more time. I don't mind, I'd rather have a good understanding of the material before picking up the next form. Besides, at my age, I don't think my butterfly kicks are gonna get any higher. So I don't worry, I just enjoy the training. :)

[yu shan]

SaMantis

Understood. I was/am taught slow, and I am handing down this way also.

O/T What about those Red Sox! :D

[SaMantis]

Yah, that's right, who's yer Papi? :p :D

I mentioned to a co-worker that I didn't feel worthy of being a "real" Red Sox fan as I'd only been up here for a couple years. He said, "Did you get your heart broken last year?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Then you're a Red Sox fan."

[yu shan]

SaM

LoL, cool story about the Sox. Growing up in Florida, I`ve been a fan since the 80`s (spring training). ;)

I like -N- answer:

know your stuff
have students

When I tested in`99 for the Shifu test in Wah Lum. The problem I had was, it should have been done on a one on one basis. Instead, all involved were pooled together. Then all we did was forms. Yes, the forms are very difficult. And testing in front of your peers is most challenging. From what I have heard, looks like this test will be grouped in smaller gatherings in the future. Still should be one on one though. There should be much more to a Shifu test than just executing hand forms and weapons. JMO! I do know of Wah Lum teacher`s who know there s h i t.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

The last WL test involved a one-on-one with MC where you had to teach him the basics. He does this to see not only if you understand them but to see if you're able to effectively communicate and teach. I'm sure next year will be the same. Guess the previous tests didn't do this. BTW, everyone had to do this not just the new guys.

I understand that previous tests involved some hard core physical accomplishments. Guess you got off lucky and didn't have them on your test but when I brought it up some of the others joked "don't remind him!", recalling previous tests.

Wasn't '99 the year that one of the Sifus tore a muscle when he had to jump in and out of splits? What year was the Tan Tui on a can?

[-N-]

Originally posted by yu shan
When I tested in`99[...] Yu Shan,

My teacher didn't do tests. He knew each student's character and ability, and he would tell them to teach when he thought it was time. Usually when that happened, the student would think, "I can't, I'm not ready!"

N.

[sayloc]

I think all testing including instructor testing should be done on a one on one basis.

As an instructor you should know what material your student has and can perform. If They are not ready dont test them. That wastes your time and their time.

I see a "test" as the point at which the student may take thier training to a higher level.

When one of my students walks away from a test I want them to walk away with an even deeper knolwedge of the material they already have.

I cant see how any Kung Fu "test" could not be physically hard.


Hard is not good enough, I want to walk away as a better Martial Artist. That is my reason for testing.

If I want to be miserable for a day I will just go sit at the airport.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

That might be fine on a small scale but in a larger organization like WL it's difficult to organize individual testing like that. Much easier to have everyone in town at the same time, run through your stuff and have a seminar aftwards (MC teaches a seminar after testing while everyone is in town). Each evening there is a meeting to discuss school business and such.

It already takes 3 days with up to 30 people testing (don't know the current count). And how can you know "what material your student has and can perform" when they're spread all across the country.

As you can see things work a little different the larger it gets. It's hard to maintain that personal oversight when dealing with volume.

"Hard is not good enough, I want to walk away as a better Martial Artist. That is my reason for testing."

The purpose of WL Sifu certification is not to make you a better martial artist or to whip you into shape. The intent is to verify you have not forgotten the material and can teach it adequetely. There's more to teaching than looking good.

Anyone else in a large organization like WL? I'd like to hear how others work.

[sayloc]

Hua Lin

I can see where you are coming from.

If I were in a big system like that I think I would prefer that they tested 5 people every other month. That way you can make sure everyone knows there stuff and make some improvments.

My fear is that the big group testing will take its toll on the quality of a system. Just making sure everyone knows their material does not do much to bring the quality up.

But it sounds like your system has grown and this may be part of its growing pains.

I can see that testing your students and instructors at one time could be more efficient. Thats why the Tae kwan do guys do it.

Sounds like you are doing better than me, so who am I to say what is right or wrong.

[yu shan]

-N-

I have only taken one of these tests. Basically all we did was demonstrate our forms, hand & weapon in front of Chan Pui. My Teacher from Pong Lai told me just go and teach. He must have been comfortable with what he saw in me.

Hua Lin

Yep, `99 was the test with front and side tan tui standing on a soup can if I remember correctly. A Shifu did injure himself doing a split. I think he got to come back and test one on one after healing. I think the draining part of this testing WL does, atleast in `99, was the hours of waiting for your next turn. I will say this, there were a handful of testers there that I would not have let teach an entry level TKD pattern. Absolutely pitiful! But, there are many new bright and shining stars coming up also! As for me, I thank Shifu Art D`Agostino for drilling his movement into my muscles and the help of Shifu Leroy for getting me prepared... woops cannot forget Shifu Steve Ottavianno. Oh yea, how does Chan Pui figure that you can teach the material just by doing a form? And what about the quarter of those that I would have failed but he passed?!

Sayloc

It is not so bad sitting around airports, been doing it for years. Outside of the fact that there are plenty of ladys to look at, you can always kill time in some corner walking thru whatever you are going to teach or what you just learned. I stay away from the lounge, $6 beers suck!