mobility

[Simon]

how do you train mobility?

regardless of stance structure (50/50, 100/0 etc, and heel / middle / ball of foot etc) mobility must be trained from "safe" environment, progressively up to pressure situations. Its all great to be balanced and mobile on your own, but when someone is raining punches on you (etc) can you maintain it?

(I ask because at a recent hard sparring session mine deteriorated once I was under real pressure with 50+ % power punches)

[sihing]

Well like anything new you progress into it. You learn balance in the stance from SLT practice, and then slowly you add on varying footwork to different situations. We sometimes just have the instructor lead the class through footwork back and forth, side-to-side, switching sides and lead guards. Then we have one partner play a boxer role and move side to side, forward and backward, and we have to keep up and keep centered with the partner's foot/knee in the middle of our stance at all times. The intensity will increase of course and attacks will be added, with eventually everything goes (light contact sparring) and you are not concerned about the positioning relationship with the opponent as you have it in you automatically, your subconsciously always lined up correctly. At this stage you’re not concerned about any of your own body movements and functions, but totally concerned with the opponents movements and adjusting, looking for openings and attacking first. If your opponent attacks first and you do nothing, then you will be overwhelmed and your mobility will deteriorate. The key is the concept of simultaneous attack/defense, and proper positioning with the opponent. Let them charge forward and adjust to the dead side with side step movement. A pseudo attack may be employed to take advantage of openings or initiate bridge contact, letting the forward intention/reflexes developed from chi-sao take over and start your own movement towards their center. From here let yourself go and let the tools work by themselves. Don't be stationary and a non-moving target.

James

[Tydive]

The best way I know to train that is overload training. You will need one partner (preferably someone who has better footwork than you) and a ref/coach. A video camera on tripod or held by another member is also recommended.

The objective of the exercise is to increase pressure until you lose your center. Your mobility goes out the window as soon as you either are taken out of center or rise out of it...

Your goal is to maintain your mobility as long as possible but not to avoid contact. The best way to do this is to take your partner out/down.

Your partners job is to take you out of center, slowly increasing tempo and/or pressure. Agree on a pace that works for both of you.

The refs job is to call halt and point out when/what/where caused you to lose center and give mechanical advice (this is where the video camera really helps, in those cases where you don't understand what the coach is telling you.) Note the coach should always give you a couple beats to get back into balance before calling a halt. The key here is the coach, he/she has to have a combat eye and really good mechanical understanding.

The key is that each encounter should overload you, if you find that your partner can't overcome your mobility then get another one or two.

Note: this does not mean that you have to play defense. Full spar rules should apply (whatever that means at your school).

[sihing]

I like the reference to using a video camera, this is a very good training tool and you learn allot using it regularly. One picture is worth a thousands words. One video is worth thousands and thousands of pictures.

James

[Simon]

nice! I like the camera idea as well

thanks for the ideas :)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Originally posted by Simon
how do you train mobility?

regardless of stance structure (50/50, 100/0 etc, and heel / middle / ball of foot etc) mobility must be trained from "safe" environment, progressively up to pressure situations. Its all great to be balanced and mobile on your own, but when someone is raining punches on you (etc) can you maintain it?

(I ask because at a recent hard sparring session mine deteriorated once I was under real pressure with 50+ % power punches)

Take each component of your wing chun concepts that deals with motion, develop your natural reflexes and muscle-memories with drills (Mostly timing drills), forget about sparring for now. This way you have time too develop "grace under pressure". That’s where true courage puts its head for the will of a warrior, far as sparring concerned. If it doesn’t fill natural for you too spar while trying too throw clean hard shots within the proper wing chun structure , then forget about moving your feet for now and work on your top triangle (with timing drills). For what good will your feet help you, if you can’t use your hands correctly and with meaning or power? When you can’t use your hands, then the most natural thing for the feet to do, is too turn and run away, supplementing your weakness, because there is no balance between the two triangles (top and bottom structures). And besides the better you get, the least amount of mobility you will need anyway.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[SAAMAG]

See Im the exact opposite on this one....if you don't have a good foundation, the building will crumble.

If a solid foundation (IE the stances and footwork) is not in place, the hands are pretty much useless or at least limited because true power comes from balance and rooting (structure), and without good "legs" (in both stance and footwork) one's hands will be limited as well. Remember "power comes from the ground"

[sihing]

Originally posted by Vankuen
See Im the exact opposite on this one....if you don't have a good foundation, the building will crumble.

If a solid foundation (IE the stances and footwork) is not in place, the hands are pretty much useless or at least limited because true power comes from balance and rooting (structure), and without good "legs" (in both stance and footwork) one's hands will be limited as well. Remember "power comes from the ground"

I tend to agree here with Van. Your basic structure in your stance(balance, rooting, etc.) has to be solid so that it is natural and second nature, therefore the creation of SLT, no footwork but stance work and arm/body mechanics and how they relate to one another.

We do allot of footwork and stance work drills in the school once the foundation is laid to guarantee proper placement with your opponent in combat.

James

[Ultimatewingchun]

"If a solid foundation (ie.- the stances and footwork) is not in place, the hands are pretty much useless or at least limited because true power comes from balance and rooting (structure), and without good "legs" (in both stance and footwork) one's hands will be limited as well. " (Van)


Correct.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Originally posted by Vankuen
See Im the exact opposite on this one....if you don't have a good foundation, the building will crumble.

If a solid foundation (IE the stances and footwork) is not in place, the hands are pretty much useless or at least limited because true power comes from balance and rooting (structure), and without good "legs" (in both stance and footwork) one's hands will be limited as well. Remember "power comes from the ground"

How so true, some on this forum fill as if there is no such thing or truth to the saying of; "you are only good as your stance". Boy did I get a lot of problems for making that statement last time! But you seem too get away with it, well I quess that's good. It almost sounds like you got me word for word. When working on the top triangle, you will be working on your stance. What else would the feet be doing? Unless you have never been taught to have a solid stance from the start. If I can pick you up from YJKYM or if you hit something solid and fall back out of YJKYM, then where is the balance or rooting, for your stance is no good. That was a real good post, I like that one.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[old jong]

All advices are "correct" so far. The key is to have a good degree of connection or parity between hands and footwork.Ease with hands first?: Work on bringing footwork to the same level. Ease with footwork first?: Work on bridging and hand skills.

Chi Sau while moving,Man Sau drills,San Sau are good drills,helpful in building this hands/footwork relationship.Then you can test your integrated "technique" in sparring or whatever. ;)

[Ultimatewingchun]

"It almost sounds like you got me word for word."

No...he got it all by himself.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Here we go again.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[KingMonkey]

The following helped me with mobility....

1) Knife sparring
2) Sparring
3) Rejecting flat footed footwork
4) Not obsessing about rootedness at all times
5) Shadow boxing

I'd say 1) is the best. Get someone in front of you with a pretend knife and tell yourself it's real 3) and 4) will just come out naturally if you dont want to get cut.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

If you don’t have good timing, you can swing hard and fast as h*ll and still strike out when needed. Miss my point?

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Tydive]

Simon,

You are very welcome, happy to be of help.

If you or your coach are new to using a video camera to debrief then I should give you a couple guidelines.

1. The coach should review the video before you do. He/she needs to find the specific areas that illustrate what areas you need to work on and fastforward to just those points. This saves quite a bit of ego issues and wasting time looking at things that are not directly part of what you are working on in that session.

2. Presentation, the coach should be able to clearly identify the specific mechanical / mental errors and how to correct them. Do not try this with a peer unless you are both at a very high level of skill and diagnostic ability. Given your profile says 4 years of study I would say don't try peer review.

3. Ego, leave yours at the door. Be totally open to the criticism if you feel any ego rush then back off and take a breather.

4. During the session you get to see the video clip maximum three times. Once at full speed, once at slowmo and if needed another time with still frame or again at full. Don't spend much time on review during the session. When the training session is over then you can sit down and do a full review.

5. TAKE NOTES. You will forget a significant amount of instruction, so make sure that you are taking good notes.

6. Visualize yourself doing it right before you go back to spar/drill. You need to erase the negative mental picture and build a positive one. See / feel yourself doing it correctly and superimpose that over the experience of being taken out.

What goes for you goes for your partner as well. Both of you should be getting significant amounts of feedback.

I will stop here, but I think that will get you going down a productive path.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Originally posted by Tydive
Simon,

You are very welcome, happy to be of help.

If you or your coach are new to using a video camera to debrief then I should give you a couple guidelines.

1. The coach should review the video before you do. He/she needs to find the specific areas that illustrate what areas you need to work on and fastforward to just those points. This saves quite a bit of ego issues and wasting time looking at things that are not directly part of what you are working on in that session.

2. Presentation, the coach should be able to clearly identify the specific mechanical / mental errors and how to correct them. Do not try this with a peer unless you are both at a very high level of skill and diagnostic ability. Given your profile says 4 years of study I would say don't try peer review.

3. Ego, leave yours at the door. Be totally open to the criticism if you feel any ego rush then back off and take a breather.

4. During the session you get to see the video clip maximum three times. Once at full speed, once at slowmo and if needed another time with still frame or again at full. Don't spend much time on review during the session. When the training session is over then you can sit down and do a full review.

5. TAKE NOTES. You will forget a significant amount of instruction, so make sure that you are taking good notes.

6. Visualize yourself doing it right before you go back to spar/drill. You need to erase the negative mental picture and build a positive one. See / feel yourself doing it correctly and superimpose that over the experience of being taken out.

What goes for you goes for your partner as well. Both of you should be getting significant amounts of feedback.

I will stop here, but I think that will get you going down a productive path.


I think you got something there, I can see that working, and I will try that in my next private class. It’s like studying your own fight tapes I can relate to that. Then some may not know what to look for, but there is always room too fixes something using that method. Thanks.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Tydive]

Ali,

Yeah, it's a short version of what we used to debrief skydives back in my competiton days. I also used a similar system in fencing and in some of my more agressive MA training.

[Simon]

Some great responses - cheers!

Ali - my hands are pretty good from lots of random close sparring (chi sao and breaking away from it) but thanks for the ideas.

Vankeun - I'm slowly getting this happening with the help of weights(!) I've got a DVD from Steve Cotter (Full KOntact Kettlebells) that tells ya to do your footwork drills with KBs or DBs in the rack position (like a boxing guard position). has helped heaps, but I obviously have to do it a LOT more to ingrain it in for footwork under pressure.

Ty - great stuff. I will get into it as soon as I have the means. Thanks for the detail!