Isometrics for speed

[Andy62]

http://www.athleticquickness.com/page.asp?page_id=15

[Ford Prefect]

Not even touching this one. All I'll say is :rolleyes:

[rubthebuddha]

funked-up understandings of physiology make baby jebus cry. :(

[Vash]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
funked-up understandings of physiology make baby jebus cry. :(

sig-worthy

[IronFist]

I'm not that up on muscle fiber types (something I've been meaning to learn more about, but I'd say the problem lies in this statement:

By strengthening the fast twitch muscle fibers, you have increased the contraction velocity of the muscle. When this application is applied to your thigh flexor and extensor muscles the result is an increase in your running speed and power!

Strengthening fast twitch muscle fibers does not necessarily equal increased contraction velocity.

Um... right? Ford? Toby?

[Andy62]

Isometrics are the hottest thing in strength training right now. All sorts of articles, research and new books coming out. They fell out of favor due to a number of factor including the equipment makers really couldn't maximize their profits with them,but they are back now. Rumor has it hat both Pavel and John Peterson are coming put with new books.

[Samurai Jack]

Originally posted by Andy62
Isometrics are the hottest thing in strength training right now.

Yeah, AWESOME! You rule! Thanks for bringing us the hottest thing, Bluejay! I read in Men's Health that dumbbell squats and Pilates fitness balls are the newest hottest thing though, so you might want to check out thier article (just so you can keep up with the hot new trends).

And don't forget, Pavel knows everything about strength training, because... (get this)...

HE's RUSSIAN!!!

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
I'm not that up on muscle fiber types Neither am I.

Originally posted by IronFist
Strengthening fast twitch muscle fibers does not necessarily equal increased contraction velocity.What we want is myofibrillar hypertrophy (MH) - denser muscles. This increases the force we can produce. We get MH from powerlifting, Oly lifting, etc. Do we get it from isometric training? Dunno - I know little about it. Also, does the force we can produce == higher contraction velocity? Newton's 2nd law states F = ma, so the greater force could come in the form of a greater mass being lifted, or greater acceleration of that weight. Now you produce force just holding a weight - you counteract gravity acting on the mass. You have to produce more force lifting up, against gravity. Therefore you also produce less lowering a weight (maybe that's why you can lift more in an eccentric action). So my answer is dunno enough about isometrics or the definition of "increased force capability due to MH".

OTOH, I have heard (from you, Ford and others) about the detriments of performing a lift in a limited ROM. That's what I'd be less interested in about isometrics. Anyway, they're not for me.

Dunno what this guy's trying to sell, but he keeps trying this. Maybe try a different tack, Andy62, and post quantitative personal experiences of isometrics instead of trying to market something, which is how you come across.

[Andy62]

Different things work for different people. If you like something fine -if not then don't use it.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Yeah, AWESOME! You rule! Thanks for bringing us the hottest thing, Bluejay! I read in Men's Health that dumbbell squats and Pilates fitness balls are the newest hottest thing though, so you might want to check out thier article (just so you can keep up with the hot new trends).

And don't forget, Pavel knows everything about strength training, because... (get this)...

HE's RUSSIAN!!!

Do you hear that noise?

It's getting closer...

Listen...

Here it comes...

It's the ROFLCOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oso]

my thought has always been that if you wanted to be fast at something...you trained that action and simply focused on completing it over a shorter duration.

It's basically impossible to measure single action ( a front kick ) speeds in a school or at home w/o some fancy equipment. What I've done in the past is do sets of 10 of something and try to complete the set in shorter time. IME, it's really hard to throw 10 good, effective (strong) front kicks in much less then 10 seconds. That going from good fighting posture to the bag and back to the good fighting posture as a single rep. But, in the words of a 7-year old student of mine "You move like a turtle, but slower".:p

I'm sure there are ways to build faster reacting muscles but in a martial context don't you guys think that the slowest part of the process is getting the brain to engage the muscle?

[red5angel]

I do weight trianing periodically that calls for holding the weight at the half way point. From what I understand, it's supposed to help develop muscular endurance. I've also heard that it can help build mass because the total time your "lifting" the weight is longer and provides for more tearing of the muscle to or something like that.

[Oso]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33485

[Ford Prefect]

Alright. I'll be quick.

Isometrics can without a shadow of a doubt increase your strength levels. Like doing negatives/eccentric reps, their carry over to full ROM is limitted and thus will only work over short periods of implimentation. In short they are good for busting through plateau's of the full ROM lifts.

That being said, Isometrics will have little to no carry over to explosive strength/speed. Speed is causing a large amount of force over a short time. ie you apply maximal force for minimal time... In a graph, imagine the y-axis as the amount of force you are producing and the x-axis is the time you are producing it in. The curve that is produced is called your force/output curve or strength curve. All explosive activities have a very sharp curve. Only a novice to advanced beginner trainee will be able to sharped this curve through standard strength training modes. After that, then all modes of strength training will increase strength but after the very short window of time needed to be explosive.

SEE GRAPH:

The first strength curve in the graph is of an intermediate level trainee. Only such a trainee would need special methods like isometrics to break plateaus since he will have created a base level of strength. All training geared towards strength will generally only sharpen his strength curve AFTER the short window needed to be explosive. His strength will continue to grow but that's because he's allowed to struggle under the weight. This would mean a long contraction... not a short one needed for speed. In isometrics the holds will be 3-10 seconds usually. How will a contraction that lasts 3-10 seconds be able to have any effect on training a contraction that is supposed to a small fraction of second? Fact is that it can't.

In the second graph, it'd be the same trainee if he geared his practice towards explosive strength. This would be done by lifting submaximal weights (45-65% 1RM) very quickly. In essence, he'd be mirroring the short contraction time needed for explosiveness. By moving the weight quickly in the lowering portion of the lift, you are speeding up the bar. According to the laws of physics a faster moving bar with have more force than a slower moving one. This kenetic energy/momentum in the fast moving bar forces your muscles to have a near maximal contraction in order to overcome it and start the rising portion of the lift. This fills in the second part of the puzzle, so you are precisely replicating what your body needs to do to be explosive: A maximal contraction over a short time

This concept can be seen in plyometrics. All this information actually comes directly from the man who pioneered the use of plyometrics (he actually called the powermetrics but something was lost in translastion) Dr Yuri Verkoshanky, Soviet sport science researcher. In plyometrics like clapping push-ups and depth jumps, your body's momentum is used to build kenetic energy followed by a quick muscle contraction to propel it up. It is the same exact thing described in the paragraph above.

Looking logically at the data and how the body works as an adaptive orginism, it's pretty clear that isometrics will have no or little effect on speed. They'd have the most impact with beginners, but beginners would be better suited for other training means that would also strengthen a larger variety of pysical attributes. I knew I said I'd be quick... Dunno why I drew a graph. heh.

[Andy62]

http://www.runquicker.com/isometrictraining.htm

[Ford Prefect]

A) Both those article are exactly the same article.

B) Neither article references any work published in a peer reviewed scientific journal. They are all incorrect logical assessments by the author.

C) Isometric training as described has you hold a contraction with no velocity of movement over 10 seconds. Logically how can this effect a dynamic muscular contraction over a fraction of a second? Your body adapts very specifically to the stress placed on it. It's called SAID (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands).

D) ISometric contractions only strengthen at the joint angle they are done plus 15 degrees of joint flexion. This will be of little use to somebody working over a full ROM.

E) Don't take my word for it, talk to the leading biomechanics and physiology researchers:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/ (This web group consists of professional strength trainers for professional athletes as well as PhD's from various universities in fields relating to athletic performance)

Supertraining by Mel Siff and Yuri Verkoshanky (This book actually isnpired the web group. It contains the most up-to-date and through scientific information on sttrength training including isometrics and references all information with peer-reviewed scientific studies)

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/factor-of-time.htm (this article is by the most elite power lifting club in the world who reached their success by much strength training research. It covers all aspects of strength training. They even have a Q&A at this same site where athletic trainers for universities and pro's answer questions (Sport Specific Q&A) so you can tel them how you think 10 second isometric contractions will help speed)

I could save you some time. They'll tell you the only way isometrics will increase explosiveness is in novice trainee's or if they are done in quick bursts (ie 1 second or less) at extreme ROM's.

Anybody can publish anything on the web. Be wary of anything that doesn't reference information and/or of ones that make logically leaps. The way your body adapts goes along scientific principles. Sprinters don't train by running at a slow pace for 5 miles... There are logical reasons for this.

[norther practitioner]

In sports where high-speed movements are present, isometric work is less effective. Its main purpose is to develop absolute strength when doing long contractions, 3-5 seconds. But it can also be used to develop explosive strength, just as dynamic exercises do, by pushing or pulling violently with quick jerks. With pure isometrics, the rise in muscle tension is slow, and with explosive isometrics the rise in muscle tension is fast.

From second website that Ford gave.

[Samurai Jack]

Ford, I won't have you disagreeing with Bluejay now. He's the hottest thing. You are sooooo nineteen eighties! :rolleyes:

[Andy62]

No Jack you are the cool one!

[Ford Prefect]

lol @ SJ. I dunno what I'm thinking.

NP, That coincided with exactly what I said. I said:

"They'll tell you the only way isometrics will increase explosiveness is in novice trainee's or if they are done in quick bursts (ie 1 second or less) at extreme ROM's."

Let's break it down. By doing the motion in quick "jerks" you are now having a quick muscular contraction like I have said. By pressing against an unmoveable object, the contraction will also be extremely strong... just like what I said was needed for explosive training. However, all scientific data also states that the nature of isometrics only strengthen that specific joint angle +15 degrees in each direction. Hence it's better to just train dynamically through the range of motion, so not only are you simulating the explosive action more accurately, but you are also training a larger ROM.

The sites he is posting are talking about 10 seconds isometric holds which will cause "the rise in muscle tension is slow". Either way, the training I outlined is still more effective. The principles of training are relatively constant. S.A.I.D.

[norther practitioner]

I was trying to reiterate your point bro...lol:D

[Ford Prefect]

I was just trying to explain it for anybody who didn't get it. Pre-emptive strike... ;)

[norther practitioner]

pre-emption is so isometric...:p