On going 100%

[YongChun]

What does going 100% mean? Does it mean if your partner makes a mistake, then he is severely injured? If a 250 pound guy goes 100% against a 90 pound woman, what happens? Who learns what?

If Emin goes 100% against his students then they will lose 100% of the time for a long time and be badly damaged inthe effort, protection or not. Getting hit in the head at 100% level even with protection results in brain damage.

I think 100% should be reserved for the real fight only.

How many clubs train 100%. Are any of the training clips shown on this forum 100%. If not then are they showing something useful? I think they are useful.

Is training at 75% where you only receive a broken nose and lose all your teeth more useful than lighter contact or than 100% whatever that may mean? If you do a 100% Thai roundkick to someone's knee and he is not fast enough to deal with it and just can't get the timing then is he learning something by getting bashed really hard as a punishment for being so stupid and incompetent?

Or should 100% be reserved for people of roughly equal skill to be engaged in occasionally?

Are all teachers such as Emin now ineffective fighters because they do not go 100% against people of equal or greater strength or is the maintenance mode practice against lessor beings sufficient to keep up their skills?

I think a teacher gradually gets a student to fighting level and the time period depends very much on the student. Some can fight in 6 months, some in 6 years and some never because they like peace more than war but they enjoy the art.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by YongChun
What does going 100% mean? It means each person is trying as hard as he can.



Originally posted by YongChun
If a 250 pound guy goes 100% against a 90 pound woman, what happens? Who learns what? If a 90 lb woman expects to be able to defend herself against a 250 lb man, she should have the expereince of having a 250 lb man go all out at least a few times in practice. Better than have the first time be for real...


Originally posted by YongChun
If Emin goes 100% against his students then they will lose 100% of the time for a long time and be badly damaged inthe effort, protection or not.He should go 100% only against his high level students.



Originally posted by YongChun
Getting hit in the head at 100% level even with protection results in brain damage. Getting hit at 100% level for the very first time in the street will probably result in more than just a little brain damage.


Originally posted by YongChun
I think 100% should be reserved for the real fight only.If that is the first time you ever go 100%... good luck.


Originally posted by YongChun
Are any of the training clips shown on this forum 100%.The "kong sao" clips were the first I have seen of WC being used at 100%.



Originally posted by YongChun
Is training at 75% where you only receive a broken nose and lose all your teeth more useful than lighter contact or than 100% whatever that may mean?75% with protective equipment should not leave someone with a broken nose and all their teeth knocked out. All levels of intensity have their usefullness and each should be used at different times.


Originally posted by YongChun
If you do a 100% Thai roundkick to someone's knee and he is not fast enough to deal with it and just can't get the timing then is he learning something by getting bashed really hard as a punishment for being so stupid and incompetent? He will learn to get the knee up next time (or after being hit a few more times).


Originally posted by YongChun
Or should 100% be reserved for people of roughly equal skill to be engaged in occasionally?Mostly people of roughly equal skill should be paired at this level. However, you get better by going against people who are better than you are. Losing doesn't mean you die or end up in the hospital.


Originally posted by YongChun
Are all teachers such as Emin now ineffective fighters because they do not go 100% against people of equal or greater strength or is the maintenance mode practice against lessor beings sufficient to keep up their skills? A person who has sufficient experience at going 100% will usually be more effective than someone who has never gone at 100%. Someone who no longer goes 100% will probably not be as good as someone who regularly goes at 100%.


Originally posted by YongChun
I think a teacher gradually gets a student to fighting level and the time period depends very much on the student. Some can fight in 6 months, some in 6 years and some never because they like peace more than war but they enjoy the art. Nothing wrong with "enjoying the art". Just don't take people's money and tell them that they are learning effective fighting/self-defense by going easy and never taking any risks in training.

[curtis]

Hello
I believe the term 100% is not being understood correctly.

since Im not sure where the quote came from and or who said it. I can only go from my own experiences.

I was taught to go 100% on everything I do. meaning not to hold back or hesitate, (Either go or DO not go.) don't wait and don't anticipate. just feel and respond. close down his lines of striking and go in with A SO BE IT ATTITUDE.

The power thing is called control. I try in my own training to go 100% but I control the penetration of the strike, I hit only where I need to,and at what depth I need to. I can hit at full power and still only hit the surface of my target, If I am working out with a parkner I hit his shirt but not the skin behind the shirt. I can hit his head gear but not his head. the shock and depth of the strike is what causes damage.NOT kinetic Force. If I want to cause max. damage I need to control the depth of the strike as well. Its all in your perspective.

AND as I see it if a 90lb woman can not do it, it should be thrown away.
Granted she may never be able to match my power but who cares! She has more than enough power to take anyone out. If a 90lb woman can hit with her body's weight, she can hit harder than most big men that have not been trained how to hit,Size is not important. being able to use what you have IS!
That's just my two cents.
take care. C.A.G.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by curtis
The power thing is called control. I try in my own training to go 100% but I control the penetration of the strike, I hit only where I need to,and at what depth I need to. I can hit at full power and still only hit the surface of my target, If I am working out with a parkner I hit his shirt but not the skin behind the shirt. I can hit his head gear but not his head. the shock and depth of the strike is what causes damage.NOT kinetic Force. If I want to cause max. damage I need to control the depth of the strike as well. 100% means hitting at 100% and taking hits at 100%. If you have never hit at 100% in training, you are going to have a hard time doing it for real against a moving, resisting opponent who is also hitting you. If you have never taken hits at 100% in training, the chances are you are going to fold the first time someone hits you for real at 100%.

[kj]

Originally posted by curtis
I believe the term 100% is not being understood correctly.


Well, the term certainly isn't being applied *consistently*. There are apparently a slew of different definitions for "100%".

Regards,
- kj

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by kj
Well, the term certainly isn't being applied *consistently*. There are apparently a slew of different definitions for "100%". 100% is easy to see. Watch Pride, UFC, or any pro boxing or Muay Thai match. Those fighters are trying at 100% and only stop when the referee tells them to stop.

[YongChun]

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Originally posted by YongChun
Getting hit in the head at 100% level even with protection results in brain damage.
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Getting hit at 100% level for the very first time in the street will probably result in more than just a little brain damage.


quote:
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Originally posted by YongChun
I think 100% should be reserved for the real fight only.
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If that is the first time you ever go 100%... good luck.

From the above logic it appears you will get major brain damage if you get hit in the head on the street at 100%. So getting hit 100% in class with full penetration will also cause majoy brain damage. Definitely students will get hit. So if they get major brain damage in class (head protection doesn't help a lot if it is really 100% with full penetration attempt) then why study martial arts which are trying to prevent injury from attack? On the street it might happen once. In class according to Terence's model you do this all the time so you are likely to suffer major damage a lot.

The professional MMA people are well conditioned athletes and cannot be compared to the average martial arts student. Only a small percentage of those can go all out with full power.

A 90 pound woman cannot take the maximum power hit of a 250 pound guy. I doubt if anyone trains like this unless they were already lacking some brain cells.

If lady does train like this then put up a clip to see how it's done.

Ray

[Ultimatewingchun]

First of all...going 100% when landing a strike or kick is different than grappling at 100%.

When a submission hold is put on 100%...the other guy can tap and usually the pain is immediately stopped - with little or no lasting repercussions - unless the hold was purposely done (from the start) in such a way that by the time a tap occurs - it's too late...and there will be lasting and serious repercussions (ie.- a doublewristlock (kimura) into a hip throw will definitely BREAK SOMETHING...(shoulder, elbow, etc.)

But this kind of occurrence is usually very rare within grappling circles because there ARE rules and limits within which going 100% is acceptable (ie.- it's understood that such a lock with a hip throw is not acceptable...or and armbar from a standing position wherein the attacker purposely falls to his back at high speed and intensity - another way to break an elbow).

But you can't "take back" the force of impact that results when a punch or a kick is delivered to the face/head/temple/solar plexus/ribs/knees at 100%...the damage is done.

We've got to take all of this into consideration when we talk about sparring/rolling...at 100%.

Hence the need for protective equipment (AND RULES) when we train/spar...(ie.- punch/kick) at anything near 100%.

[sihing]

Clip? Knifefighter? MMA? Those words don't belong together, cause they are MMA, don't you know what that means Ray? MMA= All Knowing, Super Tough, Willing to Die in Training and Gradings, Be All and End All in Martial Arts....With MMA behind your name you don't need clips...lol


James

[YongChun]

Oh, ok James that clears it all up. Ray

[Vajramusti]

100% Fight fight fight!
---------------------------------

I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would
>>take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place
>>and kill him.
>> -- Mark Twain
>>

[curtis]

Knifefighter

try this hold two large phonebooks on your chest, and have someone hit the books at 100% power the way you are thinking of at full death of strike, you will be pushed away,with very little damage done to your self, but if they hit lets say at the same power but control the death of penetration to lets say 1/2" of depth and recoils as soon as they hit the 1/2" depth. You will feel more of the strike because the body can not absorb the damage being applied to it. PLUS If your opponent doesn't fly backwards after you hit him, you will not have to chase him down in order to hit him again.
Shock damages far more than Just using force alone.

[Tydive]

Well.. if you look at MA's that allow full contact you will notice something called gloves. These allow people to go 100% and still not cause perminant damage (most of the time).


What does going 100% mean?
It means that you try your best to defeat the opponant. It does not mean that you give up on your control and try to damage that person.


I think 100% should be reserved for the real fight only. I think you need to redefine your terms. With proper protective gear and a ref 100% can be done with pretty good safety. If you are talking of effort to win, not effort to kill/maim. Note the difference. In a point match I just need to make contact I don't have to make hard contact. In a bare fist brawl I need to make hard contact. Both can be done at 100% effort with very different results. Context is everything.

In short, you have created a false dichotomy here. You percieve that 100% somehow abates control. In my experience going 100% is going with full control.


If a 250 pound guy goes 100% against a 90 pound woman, what happens? In most cases she gets pounded. If she has some kind of weapon then there is a chance. The only cases where this is not true are when the larger person is either totally unskilled and/or too drunk/drugged up to move.

Curtis
Size is not important Yes it is. It's very important. I have a little brother who is a black belt but weighs around 80 Lbs, I weigh 170. There is not a chance in the world that he could put me down bare handed no matter how hard he tries. Nor could he take down our Dad who has zero MA training. He has tried, and it's just sad. His best focus punch, which can break bricks etc.. does not do anything to me. I can absorb his force with ease. On the other hand I could one punch him and break him. He can't even do pain locks on me, because I can lift his entire body with one arm.

[curtis]

Tydive
A child has more enough power to take out a full-grown man, the problem lies NOTin the ability, but the knowing of how to apply the technique. As well as confidence and determination. (thay dont belive they can) Although after saying that, it has happened before,and if you not careful just might happen in the wrong situation for you .If you are not careful, and under estimate your opponent strictly because of their size.
Your quote:"Well.. if you look at MA's that allow full contact you will notice something called gloves. These allow people to go 100% and still not cause perminant damage (most of the time)."

Your analogy about the glovesis 100 percent wrong! The gloves are not to protect the person being struck! It is to protect the person striking, hands.
If you look at boxing's history, there were far less knockouts and far more broken hands before gloves were introduced, what the glove allows you to do is a hit harder with having less chance of breaking your hands, knuckles or wrist. all the gloves really do it allow a person wearing them, to strike harder than they could without them.
Lets look at this size thing again. If you are saying your little brother cant hurt you beacuse you are 100 lbs. heaver, Dose this mean you cant defend your self against a man who out weights you by more than a 100lbs?

[Ultimatewingchun]

Look...aside from the remarks about a 90 lb woman going 100% against a 240 lb man - which I don't recommend (maybe 80%) - I really can't find anything KF said on this thread that's so unreasonable.

If you gear up with protective equipment - and your skills are advanced - striking/kicking at 100% (without going for targets that are TOO vulnerable (back-of-the-head...groin, etc.) - then 100% striking and kicking power could (and should) be done on a regular basis...as long as you build up to it in every session...50%-70%-90%-100%.

Because this WILL prepare you for the real deal in the street if you should ever have to defend yourself...IN WAYS THAT NOT GOING 100%...will never do.

But the key to the whole matter, imo, is HOW you go about this 100% training.

For example - I'm a big advocate of constantly interrupting sparring (including 100% sparring)...when things get sloppy or someone is constantly getting nailed by the same technique...so that things can be slowed down and drilled for a few seconds/minutes - until that person demonstrates an ability to deal effectively with that technique coming at him (her)...and then the heavy sparring resumes....or if someone is getting hurt and needs to rest or recuperate from a particularly heavy and effective blow.

[chisauking]

Once you appy rules, it's no longer 100% If we restrain our power, it's no longer 100% If we limit our techniques, it's no longer 100% If we control our savage emotional content, it's no longer 100%

The only 100% some people on this forum apply, and most effectively at that, is bull5hit

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by curtis
Knifefighter

try this hold two large phonebooks on your chest, and have someone hit the books at 100% power the way you are thinking of at full death of strike, you will be pushed away,with very little damage done to your self, but if they hit lets say at the same power but control the death of penetration to lets say 1/2" of depth and recoils as soon as they hit the 1/2" depth. You will feel more of the strike because the body can not absorb the damage being applied to it. Until the laws of physics are repealed, the above statement is completely, absolutely, 100% wrong.

[Tydive]

Curtis said
If you are saying your little brother cant hurt you beacuse you are 100 lbs. heaver, Dose this mean you cant defend your self against a man who out weights you by more than a 100lbs?

I did not say he could not hurt me, only that he could not win. He could damage my soft tissue etc...

Things change when you get over 150 pounds, however in those cases where I have fought people who had more than 80 pounds on me (and they had comparable skill levels) I got waxed. And I do not mean 100 pounds of fat, or untrained bar drunks. I am talking about a skilled opponant in good shape. The only way a 100 pound person is taking me out is with weapons or me doing something so stupid that the mind boggles.

Now step away from the Jet Li video collection and try it yourself. :D