Bushido

[PangQuan]

Hello all.

I am starting a thread for all of us who have, at one level or another, devoted any portion of our psychi to Bushido. For a starting subject on this matter I would like to address the relationship of Bushido in regards to the continually changing circumstances within modern society. In other words, how far can the laws of Bushido truly be followed and still go along with the mentality of adjusting, accordingly, with the current state of affairs and times. I for one dont think I would even consider commiting seppuka if my employer died. However our relationships, here in america, are not held in this manner with our employers. Just mainly looking for feedback, not even in regards to this question.

Do nothing that which is useless. ~ Miyamoto Musashi

[Vash]

Bushido: The art of clever cult.

[Starchaser107]

can someone please present the laws of Busido in a clear concise manner so that we may possibly discuss them then?

[tug]

"In Japan, as in Europe and elsewhere, those sons of aristocratic fathers who did not inherit their paternal estate commonly became warriors or monastics. In Japan both of these specializations were originally conceived for the protection of the state; the ancient warriors were first called samurai or 'attendants' because they formed the armed guard of the aristocracy. When the samurai eventually took the reins of government from the aristocracy, as an independent class, one way in which they manifested their new status and dignity was to distance themselves from the 'attendant' samurai label and call themselves bushi, 'warriors' or 'knights'. This 'warriors way' became bushi-do, or 'way of the warrior'.

The samurai warrior caste therefore exerted great influence on the whole of Japanese society, not only through its role as ruler and law giver, but also through its patterns of patronage, such as the cultural and educational activities of its nocombatants and clients. As a process of many hundreds of years' duration, this element of Japanese civilization acquired extraordinary momentum and force, both politically and psychologically. Even today the conventional Japanese culture and mentality cannot be understood without recognizing the residual influence of those samurai centuries.

Personal responsibilities, familial relations, public duties, education, finance, ethics, and so on - all these aspects of life and more are treated from the point of view of the martial spirit of Japanese knighthood."



-Bushido Shoshinshu (Bushido for beginners)

Taira Shigesuke


Bushido is in essence a codification of traditional practical philosophies made part of the cultural norm of the Tokugawa period and was composed to provide practical and moral instruction for warriors, correcting wayward tendencies and outlining the personal, social, and professional standards of conduct characteristic of Bushido, the Japanese chivalric tradition.

[PangQuan]

I could not have put it better myself, not without a text book of some sort anyhow. That pretty much sums it up. One of the greatest influences to the highest devlelopmental stage of Bushido is the Zen phylosophy mixing with the buddhist way of thought. Combine that with a culture who has devoted there lives to war like traditions in order to conquer thier homeland and then BAM ! Bushido. Pick up a copy of the Hagakure, this is an excellent refference source. It is a very similar system to the chivalric code that European Knights lived by. Only it has a higher emphasis on the fact that death is fully accepted and honored to be undertaken under the proper circumstances. You can also pick up a copy of the Go Rin No Sho, or Book of Five Rings, Miyamoto Mushashi. This book was writen at the end of his life, the period that he lived in was at the peak of Bushido.

[Starchaser107]

Ok I have a copy of the Hagakure,
In some regards it might be a bit extreme to live one's life exactly as if one was living in feudal Japan. There are alot of interesting things in it (Hagakure), and I think that if one views the book with any sort of filtration process of thier own going on, they might be able to extract some useful things to enhance the quality of thier own lives.
It is noted in the book that alot of it is really just the ramblings of priests and not really a Samurai bible as such. perhaps more like a diary or collection of memoirs. Yet still reading it with an open mind and heart gives us a glimpse of what those times might have been like.
Personally I believe in being able to empower ones self to the best of ones ability, However in order to learn a path that has already been laid one must be a disciple to those that have followed that same path and in that, there is some level of servitude and humility that one must learn. So whereas things described in the Hagakure might not be applicable to modern times in a literal sense. One may very well take a general idea and adapt it to suit thier circumstance.

[CaptinPickAxe]

If I'm correct, it's against bushido for a samurai to leave his sword behind. Also, he can't leave his fief.

[Starchaser107]

I believe the sword contains the spirit of the samurai.
might be a bad idea to leave ones soul behind

[tug]

They lived and died by the sword, literally. Good reference to Hagakure, it is one of my most treasured texts, and like others have said, it is a bit extreme for our times, but nevertheless, all of the precepts laid down in books like that can be applied in some way or another to our everyday struggles.

One other that I find very interesting and a glimpse into the daily lives of the Samurai and is not so much a guidebook is Chushingura. It is a play in book form and it tells one of the most famous stories left of Samurai culture and the drama that had become common for them at the time. It is the story of the 47 ronin.

[PangQuan]

Starchaser, your right. The Hagakure is a collection of memiors, a young samurai that had come across a monk who had devoted himself to buddhist ways after the outlawing of Seppuka (ritualistic suicide, the honorable one, that you perform to follow your Daimyo into the afterlife.) This samurai had over a period of many years, traveling back to the temple, had collected the way of Bushido from one who had lived its path his entire life. And yes the belief is that the crafter of the sword will imbue it with part of his spirit while the owner will do the same through practice and battle. Thus giving the sword a spiritual quality of its own. I dont remember who the quote is from but it goes like this; "I have found the essence of Bushido, it is to die!" This I think can still be a way of Bushido that is applicable to modern times. I think it refers to a situation such as; when faced with the choice between life and death alway choose death, but of course you will, in following this path, fight for life. I have put it into this perspective for myself; You see a kid in the street, a truck bearing down on him, to follow bushido you will rush to his aid putting yourself in the hands of death, yet at the same time you will do your best to stay alive, yet hit your mark and complete your mission. To go against Bushido you will just watch him die. Does anyone feel this is an accurate representation of this aspect of Bushido? The death over life aspect that is.

[tug]

Perhaps. It was the retainer's duty to protect his master at all costs, including risking/giving his life to ensure his master keeps his.

[PangQuan]

Yes I believe that was a major part of it, for without your Daimyo your life no longer has any purpose, since your life was dedicated to his.

[tug]

Exactly.

Which was why so many ronin took their lives, for to live after having failed to saved the life of your master was the greatest dishonor.

[Mr Punch]

With respect the Hagakure is not the best representation of Bushido values. Not only nowadays does it seem a bit extreme, but at the time Yamamoto Tsunetomo was considered a bit of a freak. Sure many people thought that way, but there's was one extreme and the Confucianism and Zen in the Bushido code generally tempered extremism to the outside world by personal austerity. BTW the hagakure (http://www.hut.fi/~renko/hag1.html) is online here.

Nor is Miyamoto Musashi a good example of Bushido, though he lived in an era that is famous for it. Don't forget he was a lower-ranking samurai, blocked from positions of high power by dint of his status (which is one reason he became a teacher of the upper classes, not one of them... many people have it that he refused but in fact he was not allowed such high office), which may be why he 'chose' the life of an itinerant, rather than that he though it was a neat idea!

BTW, it was not so much Zen that was the major influence on Bushido, but more Confucianism. The influence of Zen can be seen in the techs and the ai-uchi (mutual annihilation) philosophies of the samurai, but the bushido 'code' is directly linked to the jin gi rei chi shin (the Five Pillars of Confucianism).
tug
Which was why so many ronin took their lives, for to live after having failed to saved the life of your master was the greatest dishonor.If you are suggesting this is why the 47 ronin took their lives, I'm afraid you're wrong. They took their lives because they had killed higher ranking samurai, and because the master that they were avenging had in fact lost face by failing to uphold the code of bushido in insulting a guy of equal or higher rank.

They had avenged the life of their master already, which was the expected thing to do, although doubtless a noble deed. And it had in fact been there master's fault that he had died in the first place, not theirs, it was a duel from a personal slight committed by their master. So unfortunatelyn it was a Catch 22. They had to kill their master's killer, despite the fact that it was their master's fault that he died. And because it was their master that had caused the insult they had to kill themselves to cleanse themselves of avenging a wrong master. And also of course because they'd been forced to kill a higher ranking samurai.

Their nobility lay in the fact that they chose to kill themselves rather than run off and become a band of masterless outlaw ronin which many others had done and would do before.

So, as you can see, the Code of Bushido is a lot more complicated, deeper and sillier than many people think. A lot of it was based on the Five Noble Pillars of Confucianism, whilst the rest was based on schoolboy slaps. Thus is the conundrum of Japanese society.

:D

[FuXnDajenariht]

lmao

"kill yourself"

"but whyyyyy, i dont wanna"

"cuz i said so, im better than you. kill yourself.........it'll only hurt for a few hours, 12 tops.....im waaaiting"






very silly indeed

[tug]

Mat, I was not referring to the 47 ronin in that statement, I was using the term "ronin" as a broad definition of a masterless samurai. As far as I know, no matter what the reason for not having a master to answer to, it was simply and plainly unhonorable to be in that position.

But then, I never professed to be an authority on Samurai/Japanese culture. All I know is from what I read. Maybe you can enlighten us a bit more and better than I can?

[Mr Punch]

Sorry tug, I didn't mean to come across as high-handed, I'm certainly no expert either! That's also why I said 'If...' at the beginning of the bit I addressed to you!

Although, through large parts of the samurai age it was not quite so dishonourable to be ronin, more a fact of life in the major warring periods. If you were in service to a higher samurai, the chances were you'd never reach those ranks of privelege anyway, so in many ways becoming a ronin was liberating, and in some cases got you granted some literal degree of freedom from whoever had vanquished your lord.

But yeah, to a large extent it was dishonourable in many eras and areas, thus driving many ronin to outlawry. Which sounds cool to me! :D

[Mr Punch]

BTW, my gf just bought me a bilingual edition of Bushido, and Go Rin No Sho in modern Japanese and the original for Xmas, so now I can translate them myself AND argue with other translations at the same time!!! :D :D :D

Sweeeet!

[Starchaser107]

Samurai, much like Greek Spartians are rumoured to have indulged themselves in acts of h0mosexuality
this form of bushido carries on today in BJJ :o

haha,
just making fun

[tug]

Yeah, that's the one thing I really didn't get/like about Hagakure, and though I'm technically not ****phobic, I never will understand how the two would go together.

[PangQuan]

This of course would be pretty much the norm for any caste, in any civilization. Now we must remember that most of the actual great warriors out of feudal japan did in fact retain their virginity as long as possible. It is believed that to bed someone you will lower your martial power. This comes from chinese culture. losing ones original essence. But of course who really knows what was going on in those crazy samurai heads. Also the title "Samurai" was givin quite frequently. In reality it was given to anyone who served a daimyo. Now if we are talking about Swordmasters. thats different. Of course it was rumored that Kujiro Sasaki (the famous partiner in the dual with Miyamoto Musashi) was a ****sexual. oh and by the way, I like T & A

[Starchaser107]

Tanzania and America?

[PangQuan]

Yep !

Like my icon? Look familiar?

[Starchaser107]

haha.

Ital

[NeedsPractice]

I believe the real issue/ problem is this
People looking backward at chivalry or bushido attempt to give it a greater "romantized" place in history than it may deserve.
THese codes of living , standards of behavior were primarly designed to keep a strong military in order. A sstrong military force needs alot of discipline from above, especially when they ARE NOT on a military campaign but at home when they can become a menace to the general population not the enemy.
Also a strong military is still capable of some pretty horendous atrociities committed under the " authority" of the generals in charge ( for example Germany, Bosnia, Sierre Leone, and so forth).
So dont think the samurai or knights who may have been born to a warrior class are anymore special than a man who may have trained most of his young life to become a navy seal or someother type of special forces operative, that most people in the military cant be. Or people who spend thier entire life in the military service.
In other words Bushido was just the propoganda of its time, to help keep the warriors in line with the people in charge military or civilian. Just like the military today are "fed" a certain amount of propaganda.
There is nothing wrong however with trying to find something to use to give your life more focus and discipline, whether it be martial arts, religion, etc.

[Samurai Jack]

I believe the most important aspect of the code is being overlooked in this discussion due to a few quaint and unusual artifacts commonly practiced in a long ago and foreign era.

The driving force behind Bushido and European forms of Chivalry is Service. The word "Samurai" does not mean "attendant" or "retainer" in the way we normally use the word in english, it means "One who will serve", future tense, reffering to the ultimate sacrifice i.e. "One who will die".

Anyone seeking to adapt the Old Code to modern living need only observe this cardinal rule: A Samurai exists only to serve. One can easily find causes worthy of dedicating one's life to. I preffer social causes, myself. But as long as a Bushi -which anyone who trains at methods of combat can technically be called- has dedicated himself selflessly to a cause, he can rightly be said to be a follower of the code of Bushido.

There were Samurai who served provincial lords, fiefdoms, religious institutions, governmental postions etc. Books like Hagakure make alot more sense when you read it with the understanding that the Samurai Yamamoto Tsunetomo is referring to, were dedicated to service in the capacity of a soldier.

Nowadays, modern adherents in Japan and abroad can be found serving all levels of social strata, from the corporate salaryman, to the social worker, to the green peace activist, to the police officer. Anyone who has dedicated his entire life and being to the furtherance of something greater than himself can be properly termed "Bushi".

[PangQuan]

Well put.