self training?

[draggin dragon]

Forgive me if this topic has been raised before, but your views are important & I am genuinely interested in the responses.

Those of you who live in large metro areas are fortunate to have a plethora of available schools and martial arts to choose to study, but not everyone has that luxury.

In my area my choices are limited to WTF taekwondo, UTF TKD, or Eagle Claw.

My experiences, and research have led me to the conclusion that there is really only one martial art which I would like to learn right now--Wing Chun.

Is it possible to learn the art through good WC books & videos, or a distance learning program. Or should I forget it.

How about learning the first couple of sets, then traveling to a school to train for a few days, get corrections etc. Perhaps making the trip 2-3 time per year.

Is it possible to learn WC. this way?

[t_niehoff]

You *learn* WCK just like you learn boxing or wrestling. And you develop skill in WCK just like you do in boxing or wrestling. Do you think you could learn boxing and get good at it training as you intend to learn and train WCK?

[bung bo]

Your profile says hung gar/TKD. No WC experiece? I'd say no. Not to the books as a reference. But if you've never studied WC, a book won't impart the flavor of the style to you. You need to train 2-person apps to know what you're doing. I'd go with the eagle claw.

Why is WC

[bung bo]

Sorry about that. I hit the enter button without realizing it. What I was going to ask was why is WC the only art that you want to study?

[draggin dragon]

Perhaps not. But I'm sure that I could become a better boxer, or wrestler than I am now.

I understand your point that WCK, boxing, and wrestling alll encompass PHYSICAL skill sets that must be experienced & practiced physically. Reading & watching tapes may impart information--but that information must be experienced practically in a physical manner.

There is a key difference, however, boxing & wrestling do not have the benefit of empty-handed & weapon sets that help to impart some of that physical skill set. Isn't that the reason the sets exist?

An entire industry exist that markets magazines, books & videos on every martial art imaginable. It could be argued that these materials are meant only to assist current students in their studies, but there has to be many, many people out there who have out of need, or curiosity decided to undertake the study of a new art, weapon, or form through their use.

Is that industry based in part on a fallacy?

Is there no benefit from the study of an art through their materials, without a nearby school to assist in your studies?

Would their be any benefit to using these resources to learn the empty-handed WC sets?

[draggin dragon]

Originally posted by bung bo
Sorry about that. I hit the enter button without realizing it. What I was going to ask was why is WC the only art that you want to study?
I don't have the flexibilty, or interest in pursuing an art that involve a lot of high kicks like TKD. It is difficult with my level of flexibility, though I'm sure that could improve, and the kicks don't make sense to me tactically. I'm primarily interested in learning an art that is good for self-defense in a reasonably short period of time & involve more hand, less feet. It sound to me like WC fits the bill perfectly. I did take some eagleclaw & was surprised to see quite a bit of above the waist kicks. That's why I did not continue. Hung Gar, I liked, but is no longer availabe where I live now.

[t_niehoff]

draggin dragon wrote:

Perhaps not. But I'm sure that I could become a better boxer, or wrestler than I am now.

**Really? You think you could get better without boxing or wrestling with training partners?

I understand your point that WCK, boxing, and wrestling alll encompass PHYSICAL skill sets that must be experienced & practiced physically. Reading & watching tapes may impart information--but that information must be experienced practically in a physical manner.

**Yes, there is a difference between learning and developing skill.

There is a key difference, however, boxing & wrestling do not have the benefit of empty-handed & weapon sets that help to impart some of that physical skill set. Isn't that the reason the sets exist?

**No. The sets don't provide (fighting) skill, they encapsulate the info that makes up the method. The sets are primarily a learning or teaching tool.

An entire industry exist that markets magazines, books & videos on every martial art imaginable. It could be argued that these materials are meant only to assist current students in their studies, but there has to be many, many people out there who have out of need, or curiosity decided to undertake the study of a new art, weapon, or form through their use.

Is that industry based in part on a fallacy?

**Yes. A person can get useful information from videos, don't get me wrong, but they can't get skill from videos. For example, you can also buy instructional videos on golf or tennis, but you still need to put the work in -- practice and playing. And, an important distinction is that most "athletics" those persons making videos have some demonstrated expertise; any knucklehead can make a WCK video.

Is there no benefit from the study of an art through their materials, without a nearby school to assist in your studies?

**There are instructional videos for boxing and wrestling. Can the info they provide help someone become a better boxer or wrestler?. Sure, provided the info is actually useful and the person watching the videos is actually doing the training.

Would their be any benefit to using these resources to learn the empty-handed WC sets?

**You can use them to learn the choreography of the sets. What then?

[OdderMensch]

I would say that if you want to get good at something in a short (reasonably short) amount of time, you need a skilled person to aid you as often as possible.

How long could you devote to a teacher/area at first in order to start? A week?

You might learn the forms, but with little feedback, you could practice an incorrect interpurtation for months. The changes could be simple and easy to correct, or may compromise whole areas of structure.

While it is possble to overcome many of these problems, it is unlikely that a single individual would be able to do so in a reasonable amount of time, or for a reasonable amount of resourses.

How much would you be willing to pay for such information? $500?

And even the forms, without constant training at sensitivety, lack much without a physical background and a good grounding in basic chinese ideas on context.

If you have 6 months before you think you need to fight, find the best person you can and get them to train you.

If you have 6 years look around some more and train as carefully as you do hard.

[KPM]

Scroll through and find the recent thread on correspondance courses.


Keith

[kj]

Hi draggin,


Originally posted by draggin dragon
Is it possible to learn the art through good WC books & videos, or a distance learning program. Or should I forget it.


If you are serious about learning a traditional martial art, I would not recommend trying to learn from books and videos. I would recommend finding the best teacher you can in another art instead of this.


How about learning the first couple of sets, then traveling to a school to train for a few days, get corrections etc. Perhaps making the trip 2-3 time per year.

Is it possible to learn WC. this way?

It is possible, but it is anything but easy. It largely depends on you. I have seen many with good intentions, but only a few successful at it. Here are some ideas I shared on the subject some time ago, on a thread titled "Training Alone" (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=314938&highlight=travel#post314938).

My own teacher lives over 3000 miles from me. I'd be glad to share some of my own experiences in learning if interested. There are others on this forum who also travel as part of their training and learning, in case you can get them to ante up their experiences.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[bung bo]

Hey dude, I didn't mean to sound discouraging. You're not alone if you think high kicks are useless in a fight. The eagle claw guys probably train high kicks and fight with low kicks. At least that is how I've been taught, but I don't study eagle claw. Get the books and videos if you want. You can try to get a buddy to work out with you, or pick a fight and test yourself.;)

[Ultimatewingchun]

draggin dragon:

I had a long distance student for about 4-5 years...he even trained a friend to practice with when he was at home.
In fact...I haven't seen him in at least 5 years - and he recently contacted me about coming back on every other Saturday beginning in January....it's a 3.5 hour car ride for him each way. (Still occasioanally works out with his friend).

But the truth is...this kind of thing takes forever - even with the assist of videos....ESPECIALLY since you have no prior wing chun experience.

Join a boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai school for now. Buy some wing chun videos....and then see what happens down the road.

[draggin dragon]

Thank you all for your thoughts. I appreciate the time you have taken to respond.

Kathy Jo, your response was particularily helpful.

You have all given me much to think about.

[YongChun]

A lot of threads here say just fight and it will all come to you. These threads imply drills, forms, chi sau etc. are not that important. Of course not everyone agrees with that. But assuming that's true then you need to just find a sparring partner and some safety equipment. Then books and videos would be used to give incremental improvements to your fighting and according to the model, the results you get from fighting would be your guide as to whether you are improving from this information or not. Then after you think you are getting somewhere, go and find a real Wing Chun guy somewhere and spar with him to see if your real fighting training method can deal with his formal based approach. This would be a good science fair type of project. The idea of Wing Chun can be thought up sitting in the mountains somewhere but the reality and effectiveness of those ideas come from trying them out. The million subtleties and refinements in position, sensitivity, timing are difficult to get by trial and error. An expert can notice very small errors which could lead to big mistakes. Sparring with only one partner may not catch those things. So nothing is impossible except impossible things.

Ray

[Stevo]

Originally posted by t_niehoff
You *learn* WCK just like you learn boxing or wrestling. And you develop skill in WCK just like you do in boxing or wrestling. Do you think you could learn boxing and get good at it training as you intend to learn and train WCK?

Isn't a lot of useful boxing training traditionally done solo, e.g. shadowboxing, working with punching bags and speedballs, running, skipping and other forms of physical conditioning?

[kj]

draggin,

Not at all. Just from one who's been there, done that, and still doing it. Learning and development is an ongoing process. Best wishes on your journey, wherever it may lead.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[wingchunner]

draggin dragon:

check your private messaging mailbox.

Marty