Stone Warrior

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience with Green dragons Video Stone Warrior? I am curious about what the training entails and whether anyone has or has seen or used the video.

Peace,

Dave

[SevenStar]

Do a search for it. Ironfist has tried it and has started several threads about it in the past.

[Sihing73]

Sevenstar,

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I was able to find some useful information using the search feature.

Peace,

Dave

[Dark Knight]

I have it, you will see results in about three weeks.

Did you just get it?

[Dark Knight]

I did a search a while ago and ran across http://www.yamazato-videos.com/CategoryHome.cfm?category=2

he has Stone Warrior and Iron Vest. I asked if its the same as Green Dragons and he said it was.

I dont know for sure.

Sifu Allen has his Female students do some breaks as a demonstraion of striking power (2 two inch blocks and one 4 inch block of concrete no spacers, 8 inches total) and he makes it clear to be effective you have to have the power to make your techniques work.

Get the Continuous Palms video. You can see that without the power to strike that comes from internal and external excersizes, the techniques will not work well.

The person demonstrating the form and techniques has striking power, easy to see.




Question for extended family members.

I reciently sent a request for GD's catalog (lost mine) but not getting a responce, a friend is having the same problem. Anyone have info? Are they busy, on vacation... they have always been fast.

[Sihing73]

Hello Dark Knight,

I just won it on ebay and was curious about the program. I have always been a bit curious as I have heard several things over the years regarding Stone Warrior. I did see the other video at the site you mentioned but was unsure if it was the same as Green Dragons video. It is much cheaper.

I will check out the program and see how it works. I am curious about Iron Vest as well and am thinking of checking out Mantak Chais (spelling??) video on Iron Shirt Level 1.

Peace,

Dave

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
I reciently sent a request for GD's catalog (lost mine) but not getting a responce, a friend is having the same problem. Anyone have info? Are they busy, on vacation... they have always been fast.

Seriously? When I ordered their catalog it took a month or two to come. When I ordered another catalog a few years later it came but it was exactly the same catalog as before just with a different date on the front.

When I ordered the Stone Warrior video it took at least a month to come, and probably more.

[IronFist]

PS. your link doesn't take you to the right place. I think you meant to link to here (http://www.yamazato-videos.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=194&category=).

Anyway, it says 21 exercises which I think is how many is in Green Dragons, but the pose that guy is in on the cover of that vid is not in Green Dragon's Stone Warrior. Then again, that same pose is on the Iron Vest vid, so it must be a generic pose they put on all their videos.

If you do do it, be sure to do all the exercises on both sides. On my Green Dragon video, some of the exercises are shown only on one side, even for multiple reps. Unless you like developing lopsided, do them half and half on both sides. Granted, he does say to do them on both sides, but some of them are now shown on both sides. If you don't do them on both sides, it would be like only doing biceps curls on one arm and triceps exercises on the other arm. How dumb would that be?

[IronFist]

PPS. This (http://www.yamazato-videos.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=116) poster is stupid.

[phantom]

Could somebody please tell me if you could lift wights on the same day that you do this program? If so, should you do it before or after you lift weights? Thanks in advance.

[Dark Knight]

If I were to lift with this I would do it after, only so I could get max use of Stone Warrior.

There are many theories on lifting, we are all different, I would try it one way then the other to see individual results.

Strength development is important and ignored in most MA schools (TKD, Karate, Kung Fu...) We have all heard the stories of how the masters trained hundreds of years ago.

Believe the stories or not, but they knew that strength training for combat was important.

What i do like about Stome Warrior is it is combat related (motions that are strenthening what you do in a fight) I do lift also, but cardio and strength training are important.

[IronFist]

I wouldn't lift while doing Stone Warrior. It's already very very taxing and anything else would probably lead to overtraining. Besides, you're going to be doing it every day.

Ok honestly I probably wouldn't even recommend it. I mean it's a cool change for a bit but I don't think it's superior AT ALL to weight lifting, and probably not standard BWE (bodyweight exercises), either.

[Dark Knight]

I agree with Ironfist.

It is pretty cool, but very time consuming.

[Dark Knight]

But it is pretty cool

[fiercest tiger]

Can you please explain to me how it makes you hit harder, i dont buy it, Because tension doesnt lead to power!

someone explain why and how it supose to give you power?

FT

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
Can you please explain to me how it makes you hit harder, i dont buy it, Because tension doesnt lead to power!

someone explain why and how it supose to give you power?

FT

It can make you stronger which can lead to stronger strikes.

More tension = more strength = potentially more power (all else being equal)

Dynamic tension definately has its limits when it comes to strength building, tho.

[fiercest tiger]

YKM has a Dynamic tension set as well, but it doesnt make you hit harder i believe. Tensing the muscles do not make you punch harder in my book, can you elaborate alittle more so i can see what you are saying?

I think its an exercise that works your muscles and gives some toning benifits and can possibly make you harder muscular but not hit harder!:)

thanks in advance
FT

[Dark Knight]

Stone Warrior is very encompassing. The excersizes cover most motions that you will do in grabbing, pulling, pushing and punching.

I know there are other programs out there and I have others, Stone Warrior does work better tha the ones I have seen. Buy it at 29.00 from the other source I posted and try it.

As far as increasing striking power. It increases your strength. Like Iron said you now have more potential power.

Its not the end all to strength and power training. At Green dragon they have many different programs both internal and external for strength development. But they also feel you should be cross training in many Chinese styles in order to develop the power you need.

They teach a couple others before you learn SW, I dont know where they find time to work out as much as they need to with the amount of information they have.

I stopped doing Stone Warrior when I stopped teaching, it took to long to do it. I dont have time for that and the other MA workouts. (You build up to it)

I lift now, run three times a week and Bike Twice (Indoor trainer for winter) I am in the Army and have a PT test I have to train for.

Strength is an important factor in fighting. If everything is equal between two fighters, the stronger man will win. (weight classes in boxing, wrestling... for example)

If you are looking for a premier strengthening program outside of weights, stone warrior is it. In three weeks you will feel the body getting tighter and stronger.

Its a good program that is very cool and has a history in the Chinese arts.

This is not a weight loss program but a strengthening program.

It fits with any system.

[SiuHung]

FT, I think the benefit for hitting harder is that it trains the body to use maximum muscular contraction.

[shaolintim]

I read in an old Green Dragon brochure that you have to use some kind of herbs with Stone Warrior and Iron Vest, for them to be fully effedtive.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
YKM has a Dynamic tension set as well, but it doesnt make you hit harder i believe. Tensing the muscles do not make you punch harder in my book, can you elaborate alittle more so i can see what you are saying?

I think its an exercise that works your muscles and gives some toning benifits and can possibly make you harder muscular but not hit harder!:)

thanks in advance
FT

There is no such thing as toning, really. As far as making your hits stronger though, tensing does make you punch harder. You tense on impact, do you not? power is based on the contraction of your muscles, produced by the neuromuscular system. The harder your muscles contract, the higher the power output.

[fiercest tiger]

Hello,

In mot martial arts you tense up yes, in my new daoist internal art of Wun Yuen you are fully relaxed and no tension even the fist when you hit.

There is a reason for this method but i will not go into this now!

Ive done YKM and Bak Mei Pai now for 20 yrs and i can say this new art is something else and everything i have learnt previously kinda is basic compared to this internal system.

Im not saying you are wrong just find it that you and i use the the same way to punch using external and its not as hard as internal in wun yuen method i believe. Im still new to this art and im not good at it but my sifu can hit you like a train without moving you and u drop.

Not to mention the experiences ive been having with chi and outer body experiences lately. weird **** is happening!

FT

:)

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, first I have never seen stone warrior. However, I have done other dynamic tension stuff, like San Zhen, and some Yi Jin Jing. what I have found is it does give a good muscular workout, builds "Some" size, and "Some" strength, but other than that, it seems to just harden. I suppose it's good as part of an Iron Body routine to help build resistance to impact, but over all not anywhere near as effective at strenght and muscle building as standard strength training.

Also, I have found that when I play with internal guys, to much dynamic tension training makes it REALLY easy for those guys to read you. It also dulls your sensitivity, so it is hard to "listen" to your opponent.


As far as Green Dragon's focus on strength, yes it is very important, HOWEVER, I have one of thier videos, and it has go to be one of the worst performances of Chinese martial arts I have seen since OYD. There is NO body structure, balance is poor, and they move in a rather uncuordinated way.

They do Chinese martial arts the way I spell. That said, they do it with ALOT of power, which to a big degree makes up for bad structure, and body mechanics, and I think thier strength training methods would be a nice addition to any martial program, but I still feel lifting Stone Locks, Kettlebells or western weight lifting would give you just as much, probably alot more, and defenetly quicker.

[Dark Knight]

I agree Royal Dragon.

But its like many aspects of the martial arts. If you wanted to just fight, practice the high percentage stuff and let go of forms and low percentage items.

Stone Warrior is a cool excersize that will improve strength and hardening of the body.

Its a pretty cool excersize that has the appeal of being a chinese stregnthening program.

Weight training will give you better body building results (BTW, lifting weight doesnt make everyone big, genetics has a lot to do with it) Prob harden the body as much if not more and you can lift to specifics for combat. NHB fighters do it, boxers do it.

But it is a nice, old chinese strengthening program that does work.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
Weight training will give you better body building results (BTW, lifting weight doesnt make everyone big, genetics has a lot to do with it)

So does eating enough :)



Prob harden the body as much if not more and you can lift to specifics for combat. NHB fighters do it, boxers do it.

NHB guys do what? Body hardening?

fiercest tiger said:

In mot martial arts you tense up yes, in my new daoist internal art of Wun Yuen you are fully relaxed and no tension even the fist when you hit.

If you're moving, your muscles are at least somewhat tense. Contrary to what a lot of CMAs think, you cannot move "using your tendons and not your muscles," and you cannot move without some tension (unless you're spinning really fast and your arms fly out to your side :p ).

So maybe what you meant was "there's no conscious or additional tensing other than what is required to move."

What is the reasoning, btw? I'm curious. Granted, this has huge potential to turn into a big debate, but I'm still curious :)

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Also, I have found that when I play with internal guys, to much dynamic tension training makes it REALLY easy for those guys to read you. It also dulls your sensitivity, so it is hard to "listen" to your opponent.

When you say "play" do you mean like push hands or chi sao or something? Or do you mean sparring/fighting? you must mean push hands cuz everyone knows internal guys don't spar ;)


As far as Green Dragon's focus on strength, yes it is very important, HOWEVER, I have one of thier videos, and it has go to be one of the worst performances of Chinese martial arts I have seen since OYD. There is NO body structure, balance is poor, and they move in a rather uncuordinated way.

I agree. Green Dragon is correct in the sense of strength being a lot more important than most TMA schools want to believe. However, their forms that I have see nare pretty sloppy. It's as if someone said "alright, do this form as fast as you can" and everything gets all blended together.

I wonder if they can fight? They have some two man sets, but I wonder if they can fight?


They do Chinese martial arts the way I spell. That said, they do it with ALOT of power, which to a big degree makes up for bad structure, and body mechanics, and I think thier strength training methods would be a nice addition to any martial program, but I still feel lifting Stone Locks, Kettlebells or western weight lifting would give you just as much, probably alot more, and defenetly quicker.

^ I agree.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I do not think that the power development programs that are offered by Green Dragon were meant to stand alone; i.e., without weight training. If memory serves me right, they advocate the use of weight training only after a strong foundation in those internal development exercises was attained. I do remember an IKF article by them about training that included weight training.

mickey

[fiercest tiger]

Im saying Dynamic tension does not increase punching power!

Obviously we cannot see each others power from reading but IMHO dynamic tension may only help develop muscles and not punching power.

FT

[Dark Knight]

What is the reasoning, btw? I'm curious. Granted, this has huge potential to turn into a big debate, but I'm still curious

Im not sure what you mean or where the question is going.

[Royal Dragon]

I never noticed an increase in punching power with dynamic tension training. Not like benching does anyway. I noticed an ability to hold upper body structure under resistance, and a "Hardening" effect that I think would go along good with Iron Body "Impact" type training.

I have also found it's feels good to do it AFTER weights to keep the pump going for a while longer. I just do a quickie version of it then though, as the real work was done by my bar bell.

[SevenStar]

The pump you feel after lifting and the swollen look you have is nothing more than blood rushing to the worked muscles...

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
Hello,

In mot martial arts you tense up yes, in my new daoist internal art of Wun Yuen you are fully relaxed and no tension even the fist when you hit.

There is a reason for this method but i will not go into this now!

Ive done YKM and Bak Mei Pai now for 20 yrs and i can say this new art is something else and everything i have learnt previously kinda is basic compared to this internal system.

Im not saying you are wrong just find it that you and i use the the same way to punch using external and its not as hard as internal in wun yuen method i believe. Im still new to this art and im not good at it but my sifu can hit you like a train without moving you and u drop.

Not to mention the experiences ive been having with chi and outer body experiences lately. weird **** is happening!

FT

:)

can I hear the reasoning? Is there anywhere online where I can see it or read about it? I hear IMA guys say similar things all the time, so I'm curious. If you just don't want to post it here, PM it to me.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by SevenStar
The pump you feel after lifting and the swollen look you have is nothing more than blood rushing to the worked muscles...

SevenStar just made the correct do a dynamic tension form of 21 movements for 36 reps each that lasted 90 minutes.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
IMHO dynamic tension may only help develop muscles and not punching power.


:confused:

What do you punch with then if not your muscles?

[IronFist]

You know, this thread reminds me of when I used to do Stone Warrior every day in my dorm for the first few months of freshman year (I had been doing it for a few months prior to that as well, but I only went up to 16 reps per exercise, not 36. It still took 35-40 minutes), thinking that I had some secret Chinese strength program that was going to make me stronger than all my friends in the weightroom.

Fortunately, one weekend I got the flu and when I was at home I was researching weightlifting and bodybuilding on the internet because I had been talking to some of my friends who lifted weights prior to this and was thinking about giving it a try (I thought weightlifting = bodybuilding, as do most noobs) and I found some good resources. I think that's the weekend that I bought Arnold's New Modern Bodybuilding Encyclopedia or whatever it's called, and although the routines in that book are not good for natural trainees, and it contains some physiological falacies (upper/lower abs), I still thought it was a sweet book that motivated the hell out of me. When I got back to school after I had recovered I decided to give weight lifting a try instead and the rest is history. I fell in love (with weight lifting and a girl, but that's another story)

Well, almost. It took me a little bit longer to realize that the routines I read in Bruce Lee: the Art of Expressing the Human Body were not very good, either. Much thanks to the internet for pointing me in the direction of very knowledgable resources and people.

It still took me a few more years to realize I wasn't going to learn to fight with kung fu (I was grasping the myth for too long), but that's an entirely different thread :D

:: puts on flame retardant suit::

In hindsight, though, I wish two things had been different:

1. I wish I had gone to the gym after quitting Stone Warrior BEFORE I got the flu because then I would have had more strength to see how effective it was.

2. I wish I had understood the importance of proper diet while I was on Stone Warrior. I knew protein was good, but I didn't get enough, and I certaintly didn't eat enough for my fast metabolism. I avoided fat because I thought eating fat = putting on fat. I thought my bodyfat was so low because of my secret Chinese training program. Now all I do is freaking eat pizza all day and I still have visible abs. However, my bodyfat was like 7.3% when I got it measured freshman year (after a few months of weightlifting but still not knowing that much about diet) and now (4 years later) it's like 9%, but still.

Well, there's a brief history of my introduction to weightlifting.

[Dark Knight]

I had the same realizations Iron.

[fiercest tiger]

Dynamic tension will not develop punching power because muscles are contracting against themselves , resisting i should say. Be relaxed and punch pads you will get better results!

I would rather get hit by a external martial artist in the body then a Internal martial artist.

FT

[fa_jing]

Hey Fiercest that makes sense, you wouldn't want to train your antogonizing muscles to fire. Though I doubt that it would make a whole bunch of difference, still it violates the specificity principle.



Originally posted by IronFist


It still took me a few more years to realize I wasn't going to learn to fight with kung fu learned from videos (I was grasping the myth for too long), but that's an entirely different thread :D

[fa_jing]

:D

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
YKM has a Dynamic tension set as well, but it doesnt make you hit harder i believe. Tensing the muscles do not make you punch harder in my book, can you elaborate alittle more so i can see what you are saying?

I think its an exercise that works your muscles and gives some toning benifits and can possibly make you harder muscular but not hit harder!:)

thanks in advance
FT

FT, if you don't mind my asking...

What is the dynamic tension set in YKM for then? Body hardening? Or are they purely for muscle toning/fitness?

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Mate,

The form in YKM called Ying Ching Kuen is designed for health and for fighting, meaning hardening the body by tension with rings as well. It helps to close of pressure points energy sources! However it trains the rib power some what but i "myself" think that it doesnt train power for punching.

Im comparing this to normal pad punching, u would get better results on a heavy bag then a tension set anyday.


Hope this helps?
FT

[Dark Knight]

Im comparing this to normal pad punching, u would get better results on a heavy bag then a tension set anyday.

Sure

But no one is saying that stone warrior alone will make you punch harder.

What will give you more power, striking a bag only

Or weight training and striking a bag.

Thats all Syone Warrior is, a strengthening program. It alone will not make you strike harder, it will make you stronger so you have more overall body strength.

Just like running, if you want to be an effective fighter you shoyuld be running or something aerobic. You need to last in a fight. But that will not make you a more powerful puncher if you are not doing pad and bag work.

Do yo think top boxers do pad work only and no weights?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fiercest tiger
Dynamic tension will not develop punching power because muscles are contracting against themselves , resisting i should say. Be relaxed and punch pads you will get better results!
FT

As long as they're still getting stronger it doesn't matter how they're being traing that much. Contracting against themselves or contracting against an external weight, they're still contracting and getting stronger (in theory)

I don't think the muscles are going to neurologically adapt to resisting themselves every time you use them from this type of training as you are suggesting. This is more drivel propagated by martial artists who don't know very much about anatomy of physiology. It's one step up from "weight lifting makes you stiff and inflexible."

Ford and/or Toby, please jump in and correct/support me in either case.

[fiercest tiger]

Ok, so all depends on what you want! Im sure someone said on this thread that the stone warrior was to punch harder or they are punching harder.

Its ok, at this time in my life meditation and chi kung is far superior then fighting and if added to fighting you will be hitting harder then doing a tension form.

All the best with the stone warrior training!

FT

[Dark Knight]

Sihing73


Once you get it post what your initial impression is, then after working it post how you feel it is.

[Toby]

Pretty sure you're right Iron.

In my training we do some dynamic tension exercises. Not all is dynamic tension though. Often we'll do a slow-mo dynamic tension drill then follow up with a loose, full-speed version. One teacher likes to use the analogy to driving with the brakes on, then learning to take your foot off the brake. I used to like brake burnouts, but that was when I was driving a car that I didn't have to pay for :D. Our current car, brake burnouts wouldn't work anyway.

A point that was made was being totally relaxed when punching. I hear that often on these forums and I still can't get my head around it. Proponents often imply that all e.g. arm muscles are total relaxed. As Iron said, this is impossible. I'm also sure that unless you tense somewhat (your definition may vary) at impact, your fist will more or less bounce off the opponent.

[fiercest tiger]

Well as long as your happy doing the way you are no need to talk about this anymore.

Just keep an open mind guys!:)

FT

[IronFist]

Um, if anyone buys that $30 Stone Warrior video post what the movements are and I'll tell you if they're the same as the Green Dragon one. The last (21st) movement should end in a sweet mantis pose. That was always awesome cuz it's your last one and you're finally done and if you're doing it in front of a mirror you get to look all awesome.

[Toby]

^ Lol!

[IronFist]

Hey maybe I was wrong about dynamic tension not slowing you down.

Anyone have any research links into this?

[Sihing73]

Hello Dark Knight,

I hope to have the tape this week and I will try it out for a couple of weeks and then post my impression.

FWIW, I am a Wing Chun stylist who also does Pekiti Tirsia. I have heard about Green Dragons Stone Warrior over the years but never got a chance to check it out. When I saw it on Ebay I decided to bid on it. I am more curious to see if there is some benefit to incorporate into my Wing Chun without losing my sensitivity.

Peace,

Dave

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
Hey maybe I was wrong about dynamic tension not slowing you down.What do you mean? If you were responding to my post, then no, you're not. The dynamic tension drills we do are probably to work a combination of "strength" building and slo-mo technique building (i.e. a different way to improve muscle memory). We use the antagonist as well as the agonist in those drills. Then, when we speed them up, the intention is to remove the antagonist as much as possible (the "foot off the brake" analogy). Still using tension, just trying not to use so much antagonist as in the slow forms. Our senior students use an incredible amount of dynamic tension in their internal practice. You can see them do a drill across the floor, taking maybe a minute to do maybe 10 steps, 10 fists and they'll be breaking out in a sweat and shaking all over.

[fiercest tiger]

Do you think this tension is good for your organs?

[Toby]

Yup. But I'm not one of the internal guys yet. I'm a beginner. Maybe next year I'll be allowed to start the internal stuff. Still, we get taught some of the concepts in the MA I do.

I think tension is good for organs just like I think tension is good for muscles - I'm not going to be holding a benchpress isometrically all day, but doing it occasionally will increase the health and strength of my pectorals. I'm not going to be doing HIIT cardio all day, but doing it twice a week will increase the health and strength of my heart. Same for my organs hopefully. No evidence or anything to back that view up - it's opinion.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Toby
What do you mean? If you were responding to my post, then no, you're not.

I dunno dude. Ask Ford.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I received the video today in the mail. I have only had a chance to look it over breifly. One thing I did notice and which dissapointed me was that a good portion of the beginning of the tape seems to be nothing more than an advertisement for Green Dragon. While I am sure that Green Dragon has some excellent material, I would prefer not to have to wade through over 30 minutes of advertising before getting to the info I actually purchased the video for.

The exercises do look promising though. I am planning to begin the program on Monday, January 3rd 2005. I will post my thoughts and any progress three weeks after that. I am interested in seeing how the program improves my strength and how it will afect my sensitivity for Wing Chun. Of course, as lazy as I am there may be no benefit but that would be the fault of the practioner not the practice method ;)

In the interim I would like to wish everyone a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Peace,

Dave

[Dark Knight]

Of course, as lazy as I am there may be no benefit but that would be the fault of the practioner not the practice method

LOL I know what you mean.

I found that i had to write down key explinations when I did it in order to remember what comes next.

Enjoy the new year

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Sihing73
Hello,

I received the video today in the mail. I have only had a chance to look it over breifly. One thing I did notice and which dissapointed me was that a good portion of the beginning of the tape seems to be nothing more than an advertisement for Green Dragon. While I am sure that Green Dragon has some excellent material, I would prefer not to have to wade through over 30 minutes of advertising before getting to the info I actually purchased the video for.

The exercises do look promising though. I am planning to begin the program on Monday, January 3rd 2005. I will post my thoughts and any progress three weeks after that. I am interested in seeing how the program improves my strength and how it will afect my sensitivity for Wing Chun. Of course, as lazy as I am there may be no benefit but that would be the fault of the practioner not the practice method ;)

In the interim I would like to wish everyone a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Peace,

Dave

So you got the Green Dragon version or the $30 version?

Just remember to do the exercises half and half on each side (where applicable). On my copy of the tape, they don't show them all this way. For example, the first exercise (the "bear hugging" looking one; I don't know what to call it), that's pretty much done to the front so there's no left or right, although you should alternate which hand goes on top and which way you rotate your hands on each rep. But the second one, which is distinctly different on left/right, do that one one half on one side and then switch your stance and do it half on the other side.

So if I remember correctly it's like a forward bow and arrow stance or something. Do it first with your left foot in front and you swing your right arm over and then up and around while your left arm comes back to cover and then you do the right palm strike. Do half of your reps that way, and then switch to a right foot forward stance and do it on the other side (ending with a left palm strike) for the second half.

If you don't do it this way you may end up with muscle imbalances and that's no fun.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I think that writing down key explanations will be most helpful. Now if I could only read but then again my six year old daughter won't stop reading to me so she can help ;)

I got the Green Dragon version of the tape. I will keep an eye on insuring I perform things equal sided. I look bad enough without ending up with one side bigger than the other. :p

I will start on Monday and post my results after about three weeks or so.

Happy New Year!!!

Peace,

Dave

[Dark Knight]

You will not see any size difference, but you will become toner and start to feel solid.

[Royal Dragon]

For me, dynamic tension from my San Zhen did give a bit of size, but mostly a hardness that helps resist impacts when I did it. Of course I softened up when I stopped, but that's my own lazyness issue than anything.

[Dark Knight]

Dave

You have had the program for a month. What do you think?