Shocking Adam Hsu mistake

[Ben Gash]

Really enjoyed the new "Sword Special" edition, but really Gene, you could have told the poor guy that you'd be running articles with historical swords with downswept quillions before you published his article about how downswept quillions were historically inaccurate and a commun ist conspiracy to boot :D
As for the application he showed to highlight his point, it didn't make sense and showed a lack of understanding of physics. His sword is the one that is trapped, not the defender, and he risks having his sword broken or twisted from his grip, and is vulnerable to a cut under his guard. :(

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
Really enjoyed the new "Sword Special" edition, but really Gene, you could have told the poor guy that you'd be running articles with historical swords with downswept quillions before you published his article about how downswept quillions were historically inaccurate and a commun ist conspiracy to boot :D
As for the application he showed to highlight his point, it didn't make sense and showed a lack of understanding of physics. His sword is the one that is trapped, not the defender, and he risks having his sword broken or twisted from his grip, and is vulnerable to a cut under his guard. :(

Much like with the empty hand, one has to ask even an guy as well known as Hsu how much he's actually used that sword...But of course we wouldn't want to ruin any images would we?

[David Jamieson]

images are for paper and mirrors! lol

[GeneChing]

Master Hsu was very active in the promotion of weapon sparring in America about a decade and a half ago or so. There has been a persistant movement to promote weapon sparring in CMA - typically with nerf swords - we are even promoting a weapon sparring (http://www.martialartsmart.net/tcdn001.html) program now. For me, nerf swords are a lot of fun, but lacks the sentiment du fer of fencing or the zanshin of kendo. Still, Master Hsu was very prominent in the field.

As for this entire issue, I feel everyone has the right to their opinions, perhaps that's an American trait, or at least it was. Where I find Master's Hsu's opinion most interesting is that it is affecting the design of Hanwei swords, one of the leading Chinese style swordmakers. This is the main reason that we chose to run the story and I hope you all consdier it in your criticisms. And thanks for you comments on this. This article is getting a lot of great feedback and I'm absolutely delighted about it.

[SimonM]

Master Hsu may have been mistaken in assuming that all Jian were traditionally fitted with his preferred form of cross piece. However he still makes some valid design points nonetheless.

With regards to his example, I would refer instead to the physics of leverage. The person whose blade tip catches on the cross piece has the leverage of their arm and of the sword to work on controlling the movement of the blades. Their opponent only has the leverage of their arm and the extra one inch or so that the cross piece will provide them. All else being equal superior leverage will control the situation. I've done some sword sparring and I have been on both the giving and recieving end of such a situation. Now I was using a wooden sword, not a metal one but there is a much greater risk of control loss when the opponents tip is against your crosspiece than that the opponent's sword would snap.

[BM2]

Don't know anything about the differences of combat jian guards and the parade/scholar guards.
Master Hsu opinion was in regards to combat.
Did any of the forum members know that some jians have dao guards and some daos have jian guards?

[ngokfei]

now that you mention it, yeah.

IMHO the design of the weapon is based on the usage.

In regards to Sifu Hsu's demonstration it is valid only to the point of the photos. The unknown skill of the defender is not specified.

Just look a couple of pages further and you find Sifu Painter's article where the usage of the Jian Case is used for blocking/parrying or even striking. this strategy would make Sifu Hsu's particular example void and succeptable to counter.


I mention this because am researching the weapon design of the "Trident" The various phrases/words used to describe the weapon is based on the diverse variations of head design and specifications which relate to the weapons actual usage.

these various descriptive words include: Cha, Pah, Bah and Tang.

[GeneChing]

I was wondering if anyone would bring up the applications. The problem with showing applications in still photos is obvious - things happen so fast in combat that to break them down into easy-to-follow steps sort of kills it. We grapple with this all the time. In fact, we were doing a shoot just yesterday on qixing and encountering this very problem. Now our freelancers like Master Hsu and Master Painter supply the photos. I was a bit puzzled by both of their applications submissions but for the most part, wrote it off to this problem. What struck me the most though, was that if you play out either example in time, Hsu's does not parallel fecning time, nor does Painter's parallel iaido time, at least not the way they are shown.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by GeneChing
What struck me the most though, was that if you play out either example in time, Hsu's does not parallel fecning time, nor does Painter's parallel iaido time, at least not the way they are shown.

Now that you mention it, I did get the feeling that Master Painter's sword drawing method would take too long. But I didn't get that impression in anywhere near the same degree from Master Hsu's application shots. I just assumed that they were "freeze frames" on action happening at a high speed in real combat.

[RAF]

If you want to see the two man fight regarding the kun wu sword Adam Hsu discusses in his article, go to www.wutangcenter.com----->video gallary Scroll to the bottom and click on the Wu Tang clip from the late 1970s. About halfway through there will be a two man fight going on (Tony Yang and Master Zhai).

There are often many two man single exercises both static and moving employed in the training.

I believe the clips are in Quick Time.

[Oso]

great tip, the old tv clip is awesome...