Trapping Range

[Anarcho]

What's trapping range? I'm not sure I really get it...Technically, wouldn't trapping range be any point from when your opponents hands could reach your hands up to a clinch? i.e. the range over which one can trap the opponents hands if they encounter your hands or block your path?

Oh, and to avoid getting blasted by Old Jong, I know you hate the whole "trapping" thing but I just want to know what *other* people mean when they mention this. I'd never use the term myself. :)

[Spectre]

If you are in a solid punching range than you are in a solid 'trapping' range.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[old jong]

What????....Just kidding! :D ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[whippinghand]

First let's clarify what this means to everyone.

[Anarcho]

I guess that's actually part of my question, Whipping Hand.

[kungfu cowboy]

To me it involves the sale of the hide of pelted animals. And also any move that has arm position that effectively nullifies the opponents move in an intended direction. And the dissolution of intent. It is not static.

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[Sharky]

"What's trapping range?" - Anarcho

"First let's clarify what this means to everyone." - Whipping Hand

:rolleyes:

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[EmptyCup]

to me, trapping range is the chi sau distance...where you are not technically able to hit your opponent unless you step forward while attacking or shift your stance for greater reach...

hitting range is sandbag punching range...a bit closer than chi sau distance...the distance where you are able to reach your opponent with your elbow in...

[Spectre]

Is there a need to 'trap' or 'stick' to an opponent if neither are within striking range?

If you can anticipate a hit than you can also hit.


Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.

[chi-kwai]

fong sao. its not easy to define in words because it is simply the techniques you are taught, but in a more applied way. it is a series of quick responses to attacks and blocks which ultimately ends with your opponent unable to defend himself anymore because you have manuevered into a position into which he can not block.

sounds simple enough, but its not just attacking. its specific responses to attacks. its like chi sao in that you have to out-think your opponent with attack placement, but it does not have the element of sticking at all times.

I am afraid I may not have explained it well, as it is something that is better seen than read.

--
chi kwai

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Although many translate phon sau as 'trapping hands', I've always prefered the translation of "sealing hands". Just something to think about.

Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
Wing Chun Forum Moderator.
Student-www.authentickungfu.com

[chisauking]

As practitioners of the wing chun system, we should try to adhere to its principles. Keep things simple and direct; don’t concern yourself with any ranges besides leg & hand range. Just be conscious when you are within hitting range – either by feet or hand, and remember that if you can hit, you can trap. Any other range is purely academic. To subscribe to the nonsense of the possible ranges available would only serve to confuse. Where would it stop? Next thing you know there would be leg to shin range, leg to groin range, finger to nose range, finger to eye range, finger to throat range, palm to head range, palm to chest range, elbow to face range, grapple your hand range, grapple your goolies range, blah… blah… blah. The people who’d coin those silly phrases have done so for one reason: money. After all, most seminars are approx 3- to 4-hours long, so they got to waffle about something during that time.

[old jong]

There is also the trolling range! very effective in the hands of the MMA/BJJ/grappling/muay thai kind! ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[whippinghand]

It's this kind of mentality that has degenerated Wing Chun to what it is today, a style, not a system. Heaven forbid that Wing Chun, should be a complete system, with ranges like any other complete systems.

[Vankuen]

This is just an idea of simplifying even moreso. Sometimes all the technical "classical mess" is not necessary. Its like your statement Whipping hand about the various tips of the finger. I thought that was one of the most redundant things to be discussing. A fingertip..is a fingertip. And the various ranges...apart from the basic ones...really dont need to be segregated even further. Isnt wing chun about simplicity? I think so.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[chisauking]

You may mock, but did you realise that there are 16 different regions to your fingertip under a microscope? And, depending on what part he decides to strike you with, he can inflict an array of symptoms upon you, ranging from temporary paralysis to instant death. Also, to apply dim mak in Bil-gee, you need to strike with laser guided, pinpoint accuracy, so the finer details are necessary. A millimetre out of place, a microsecond out of time, and your technique would be rendered useless. Not only that, but did it occur to you lesser wing chun practitioners that the length of our fingers are not the same, so in theory, you only need to develop your longest finger since that’s the only finger that would make contact.

Ha, ha, ha. Sorry, guys. It’s just my warped sense of humour, and I’m trying to bring some light-heartedness into the forum. Don’t take it too seriously Whippy: The man that is single handedly turning the ancient art of wing chun into pure science, in no more than 1 sentence(enconomy of words).

P.S. I'm sure you will get your own back.

[kungfu cowboy]

Well, secondary finger lengths DO come in to play depending on the depth of the strike. So fingertips should be conditioned in decreasing order of length. :p

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[Vankuen]

I was seriously going to get on you about the dim mak crap. But then realized you were joking! I can't stand it when people talk that mess, especially when they have no clue of it themselves. But yea, I just dont think that things always have to be complicated. I mean...theres a point when it just has to stop.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[kungfu cowboy]

Over analysis breeds insecurity, is usually pointless, and wastes time better spent on basics.

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[Watchman]

Now, let's analyze that statement Cowboy.

Please define the philosophical concept of "analysis" so we can determine at what perceived point said concept is deemed "pointless".

From there, an exhaustive discussion of what principles are deemed "basics" must ensue before we can determine how to best spend our time.

After that, I believe a comprehensive debate on how Bong Sau relates to the space/time continuum in Schrodinger's paradigm would be in order.

Thank you.

P.S. How many responses do you think we can get if we start a thread on how to properly perform the technical aspects of Wu Sau? Is the elbow in or out relative the second floating rib? Should we define exactly what we mean by the anatomical reference to "elbow"?

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

One is weak because he makes preparations against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu

[kungfu cowboy]

:D

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[whippinghand]

From one thing know ten thousand.

[Vankuen]

Whats your point?

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[Roy D. Anthony]

From one thing know ten thousand- Miyamoto Musashi
How can we know ten thousand when we over simplify?

[joy chaudhuri]

It is a mistake to couple the terms trapping and range. Trapping=atleast momentarily stopping the
opponents energy.That can happen at many ranges and in different ways. :D

[whippinghand]

What happens after that?

[whippinghand]

What exactly do you mean by "sealing". How and when do you apply it?

[joy chaudhuri]

Hi Anarcho: "Trapping range" is a term used by
JKD and other folks. Trapping is a concept. You can
apply it at any range. :D

[joy chaudhuri]

Anarcho: Trapping = controlling the other fellows
energy--it is not necessarily range specific.
Bruce Lee folks unfortunately created a jargon out of it and applied it to hand crossing range.
Which is a very limited view of control

[joy chaudhuri]

Whipping hand asks:
"What happens after that?"
The MOMENT of trapping is very important.
At that moment the opponent is yours before he or she recovers both structure and function.
You immediately run or attack depending on context.The good ones can recover fast. Not a moment to waste.

[joy chaudhuri]

Whipping hand asks:
"What happens after that?"
The MOMENT of trapping is very important.
At that moment the opponent is yours before he or she recovers both structure and function.
You immediately run or attack depending on context.The good ones can recover fast. Not a moment to waste. :cool:

[whippinghand]

When you refer to trapping are you referring to blocking, attacking, breaking? How do you disrupt the opponents energy?