please help

[joseywalesR1]

Im sure this question has been asked a thousand times in one form or another but Im new here so would ya all mind giving me a shot here? My question is this: In my area I have the choice of either a Hop Gar KungFU academy and a Tae Kwon Do school. I was wondering if someone would mind filling me in on the differences, maybe benefits and which one is more practical in real world situations. Again , sorry if this is the millionth time this has been asked but Id really appreciate any advice. I think I will be getting tuition for a Christmas gift and Id really like to be able to make an educated decision. I have been doing alot of reading aside from the internet but avery little bit helps....thanks all......awesome website!

[red5angel]

before you start getting specific advice or details, I highly recommend you go check out both classes. If they let you, go take a couple of classes in each school then decide.

And before these pagans stat spouting their garbage - I've only seen actual fights ended by two "martial arts" high school wrestling and TKD.

[PangQuan]

I agree, you should really go check the schools out first. It depends on how good the teachers are. If they are both good teachers, then you have to pretty much decide what style you like better, TKD more feet then hands, kung fu more hands then feet.

[joseywalesR1]

I actually have been to both schools twice. The TKD is more structured but something about the KungFu really interests me , I love the history and stuff surrounding the KungFu .Its a tough decision for me for some reason. Either one should help in a fight I would think. I dont plan on going around picking fights, i just wanna be able to take care of myself if the situation arises.

[Reggie1]

Some other questions you might want to ask:

Do both places spar? How much? What's the contact level?

Do they charge for belt rank tests? If so, how much? Does it go up after each test?

Are there any hidden fees--association fees, etc?

Does either place make any outrageous claims? Are there any 10th degree black belts? Does the instructor have multiple black belts over 4th degree?

Just some stuff I thought of off the top of my head.

[joseywalesR1]

the kungfu place spars "very little " if at all the guy said its due to liability. the tkd place spars quite often and they do charge for belt tests but the price remains the same throughout. As far as outrageous claims neither one seems to have made any outlandish comments or anything.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Both are good arts, a thing to think about is availability and commitment to the training.

[joseywalesR1]

Thanks Leaf, both very good points. actually availability is about equal and not that art has a price but the kungfu is much less expensive. as i said earlier ,something draws me to kungfu . I guess im just afraid of one day ill need to utilize what i learned and only then will i realize i made the wrong choice. I know what you said about commitment comes into play here, and I intend to devote myself entirely to this endeavor! the way I feel is the Chinese invented it and everyone else kinda "stole" it and made subtle changes and gave it a different name.

[Dark Knight]

I guess im just afraid of one day ill need to utilize what i learned and only then will i realize i made the wrong choice.

Its not the art but the person. I have been in the arts for over 25 years, Ive seen good fighters from most styles and crappy fighters.


the way I feel is the Chinese invented it and everyone else kinda "stole" it and made subtle changes and gave it a different name.

Started when the first caveman picked up a stick and hit his neibor.

greek wrestling dates way back.

Europe has martial arts.

(Ford started the car industry, does that make them the best?)

There is no "better style" but better instructors. Dont get caught up in "this style is better because....."

Choose one, get to black and keep an open mind. I am a black belt in a couple styles (I moved a couple times) and find pros to every style.

Its a life long journey, enjoy it.

[joseywalesR1]

Thanks Knight....best advice yet....not that the rest was not but the tough love approach strikes a chord. I appreciate all advice. I agree with the get to black and keep an open mind. Thats exactly what I intend to do. Thanks again!

[bamboo_ leaf]

Availability, was meant in terms of people teaching the style should you move. Some styles like Hop Gar, are not as available as TKD :cool:

[blake]

I found myself in the same predicament several months ago. I went with Kung Fu, and I love it (my teacher is great)

[red5angel]

skip the kungfu place if they don't spar.

[blake]

Originally posted by red5angel
skip the kungfu place if they don't spar.

Roughly how long is it before sparing is introduced into kung fu.

[joseywalesR1]

hey Leaf, what is hopgar exactly? you said it wasnt as available as tkd , just wondering

[MasterKiller]

http://www.chinesekungfu.4t.com/hop.html

[red5angel]

blake, it all depends on who you study under and what you're studying. As some of the MMA guys lamment around here, some kungfu actually takes some time to learn, and you won't start sparring for 6 mo. to a year.
I wouldn't bother with any school no matter what the art, if they do not spar. There's no good reason NOT to spar when learning the martial arts.

[Mutant]

jwR1; tough call btw a kung fu school that doesnt spar and a tkd school. it really does come down to a school-by-school basis and so much depends on the instructor. while thats true and the 'pc' thing to say, i'd probably still go for the hop gar... just happend to stop by a respected tkd school last night and sorry to say it was a joke, sorry i just can't recommend that sh!t to anyone, it was hard to stomach. unless you like the prospect of jumping around in a gi covered w/ patches that would make a boy-scout blush, doing techniques w/ no power and leaving your face wide open, then by all means go for it.
of course some kung fu schools are just as bad. and depends on what you want out of it. like someone said above, its a journey and youre just getting started so its probably more important that you make the 1st step than where you take the 1st step, although getting a good foundation early will certainly help a lot. if the kf school doesnt spar thats usually a warning sign but if they teach some good basics it may be worth it to start there and then start your own 'fight club' if they still won't spar. you can't learn to fight w/o hard sparring.
check out the chan tai san thread for some info on hop gar, apprently its related to lama. but again there can be a HUGE difference between schools and teachers, so thats not nessesarily what you'll get.
hey man, you ride an r1? i figured based on the name (duh..) , thats why i bothered to reply straight up.

[draggin dragon]

I moved from TKD to kung fu.

If you check into the reasons that the TKD spars I think you will find that they are point sparring to prepare for tournaments. TKD is a much more sport/competition related activity that kung fu.

You can learn SOME useful technique point sparring, but it doesn't translate well to pratical situations.

Do you want to attempt a spinning roundhouse to a guys nose in a dark back alley in the gravel & glass, or do you want to deliver a quick palm strike to the point of his chin & walk away?

[bamboo_ leaf]

(Hop Gar KungFU academy and a Tae Kwon Do school.)

Mr. Ross, who post here would be better able to give you a more authoritative answer as to what hopgar is.
But basically it¡¯s classed as a long arm style, with unique footwork. The art is Tibetan in origin..

On many BBSs, there are on going debates about functionality and testing of an art. For most this means some type of competition in a sportive format. TKD has evolved into an art that tends to promote this aspect. As with many things different schools and teachers are more in to this aspect then others. It¡¯s a selling point and tends to draw people into the style.

Chinese arts, where really never meant to function as a sport although they can be adapted. This has caused many including some teaching it to really lose the way of how the arts worked in the first place, there seems to be questions about how it works, and should look. With TKD, it was a direct evolution from Tang So Do, to TKD promoted by Korea as their national MA. Things were dropped and changed with the change in focus. This is not to say that it still can not function as an MA or is not good for self defense, only that the focus is different.

I mention availability as one criteria for choosing a place to study until you really understand what it is that you expect, are looking for, and will commit to. Life has a funny way of interrupting things that we plan for.:cool:

[Mr Punch]

joseywales (great name, great movie), you've answered your own question:


...something about the KungFu really interests me , I love the history and stuff surrounding the KungFu This is also true:
Either one should help in a fight I would think. I dont plan on going around picking fights, i just wanna be able to take care of myself if the situation arises....Sounds like you're well-enough endowed in common sense... put the KFM down... that's right, put it down and STEP AWAY FROM THE BOARD! :D

Dark Knight is also correct: choose, get black, keep an open mind. And you could listen to Red5 in his advice to skip the school if it doesn't have sparring... he is after all, an expert in skipping schools! :p ... but sparring is pretty useful.

I know you might not wanna do this since you live in litigation-land, but when I wanted to see if something worked when I've been in non-sparring schools, I'd get to the nearest park and my mates and I would wail the crap out of each other. Some people say this might lead to backyard-brawling, but if your teacher doesn't come with you to check over what you're doing he should still be able to pick you apart for sloppy technique when you go back to the kwoon.

[HopGar]

I think I'll defer a more detailed desciption of Hop Gar to Ross, however I am former student in the Hop Gar system so here's more superficial description. Rather long-arm, the stepping is rather unique - I havent seen anything close to it. Tibetan in origin...most masters that I know of had previous experience in a different system (i.e., my instructor also was a shaolin disciple under Law Wai Jung, who I guess was an ex-monk, see Ross' Chan Tai San thread about his sifu.) Lots of focus on the basics, I recall that it took almost a full year to learn the basics. No sparring because of liability is probably a good idea unless you have a good set of pads. We did drilling in place of sparring (and yes, I do know that sparring in necessary.) I don't know what's going on at the school in Atlanta; its been a while since I was last there. Check out www.tibetankungfu.com and www.hopgar.com for more information. The guy in Wales in named Stephen, yes?

(moves to let Ross tell more)

best of luck

peace

[joseywalesR1]

I would like to thank you all who responded. I truly appreciate the responses and the honesty. As a new member to your forum I would like to say that you all have a genuine way of making someone feel welcomed....thank you for that and for many of the kind words. As it is quite obvious I am new to the Arts but more interested and anxious to begin training than in anything in my life that I can remember. There seems to be an an intangible connection to all of you who share the same interest in the Arts , and I believe that it is only the beginning. That is what attracts me most , there is something mystical that I need to learn more about. In my humble opinion KungFu seems to have more of that to offer than TKD and it is with that I have decided to persue a belt (or sash as it is referred to in my local academy) in Kung Fu. I look forward to speaking with all of you throughout the journey. Thanks again to all. Hope I didnt seem to hokey. And to answer Warriors question, yes I have an '01 R1 worked pretty good .(has all the trimmings....lol) Anyway, I'd like to wish you all Happy Holidays and a safe new year.

[Oso]

Where are you located?

Even if they don't spar I think I would have to choose the hop gar based on it's rarity...but that's just me.

There is a great hop gar teacher, Master David Lin, who does produce fighters. So the style is certainly capable of it.

[Meat Shake]

If you can find people willing to spar outside of class go with the kung fu. if not id say to go with the tkd.
You are gonna have to fight to learn how to fight.

[joseywalesR1]

whats the tab to Oso? Im gonna go with Kung Fu and I m pretty stoked about it. I am in upstate NY.....not far from Albany...Lake George area if that means anything to anyone.

[Oso]

"Flashlight"


good luck, welcome to the board and keep us posted on how it turns out....I sorta think that if you get into the school and show you are serious, you might find that they do spar....maybe not but I'd still take a chance on the hop gar over TKD.