Pel's Email Letter

[Oso]

If anyone has translated this to English, would you mind forwarding me a copy?

Thanks.

[shirkers1]

me too.

This is cool reminds me of high school again. But with exchange students or something.

[Oso]

Shanghai Kid,

I'm talking about a short email that was sent yesterday.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Seems to me that the quest for fame and fortune has saturated the martial arts community. Everyone is trying to be 'the man' and control the money flow. Everyone is scrambling to grab the biggest piece of the pie they can get in their hands.

Lineage = Money

The masters of the future will be known by who taught them and what their title is rather than their martial accomplishments and abilities.

Sad.

[Oso]

ok, maybe I see now...the email sent out yesterday was a transcription of the letter in the .pdf?

if so, thanks.

[-N-]

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
Lineage = Money

The masters of the future will be known by who taught them and what their title is rather than their martial accomplishments and abilities.

Sad. If I were to use a sig, it would be what you have just written. Yes, sad.

Hopefully, there will be those that teach for the art itself.

N.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Oso
You're talking about the email from Wu Dao correct?

I dropped the german text into babblefish and the translation was bad but I got a feel for what was said.

It's interesting but I'm over all the lineage and teacher/student separation arguments. I don't believe the 'I'm good because I learned from so-and-so' crap. MA people need to make their own name and not live off the deeds and abilities of their teacher (or lineage).

Be your own man.

[shirkers1]

Hua I agree with you some what. But it should be that way from the beginning and the teacher should know that as well. But it still has to be a foundational respect issue. I respect my teacher and his abilities. You can look into the whole "well this line has this kind of flavor" and it holds up most of the time. But I know my teacher has a different flavor than his teacher as well as me. So just because master so and so taught you doesn't make you good, it still depends on the student and what he does with his training.

That is how I see this arguement between LKW's camp and Pel's group as just that, an argument. Hense the High school comment I made earlier. The skill level isn't really in the forefront other than Pel giving us some examples of LKW's forms and making his judgement. We just have he said she said stuff. When it comes to ability I would like to see them side by side. I've seen LKW and his students but I would like to see Mr Pel and or his students to see for myself what their flavor is like. That is what really matters to me. Titles and such are just that, the deciding factor for me is in the skill level of the individuals involved. Just my 2 slaps on the ass worth of views.

I can honestly say I've seen some upper level individuals who have names and I wasn't too impressed with their flavor at all. Not to say they weren't skilled just didn't like their flavor.

[shirkers1]

I'd like to add that as individuals we all have friends in the MA world and we talk. But the bottom line is if these individuals are skilled you give them props if not you don't talk trash about them. Same should go for people that aren't friends. You can say "I don't like their stuff" or whatever but leave it at that. Their skill level will speak for themselves not your words about them.

If the case be that Mr. Pel has a very high skill level then that is really all that matters. You may like him or not like him as a person, or how he conducts himself. But in the end if we're talking martial skill......... if it's there it's there. :) Same goes for the LKW line. Personal issues aside, the individual families involved can do nothing but represent themselves by showing their skill. That will do more than words back and forth.

[Oso]

HLL, yes. It's not the same as what's on the website I don't think. Debating wether to post it or not...it was sure sent to a ton of people.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Oso
The email is a response to what was sent out (he did a reply to all).

Cut and paste text to here http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

Not very good but you'll get the idea.

shirkers1
It's not that I think having a well known teacher or lineage is bad but when you get too obsessed with it things deteriorate (sp?). The problem is that it's such a high stakes game that people are willing to do anything (right or wrong). As much as LKW would like to rescind KUP's training and discipleship it's just not going to happen.

It makes an interesting question, can an inheritor lose it?

KUP has proof of his lineage. That's not going away unless they want to strike his name from the official list. If LKW is the highest authority in that line then I guess it's his decision and he has the final word.

It's interesting how this plays out and is received in the community in general. What's the standard? Can the Bai Si ceremony be undone? Obviously the knowledge and training can't be taken back.

[shirkers1]

Hua, exactly it boils down to what skills these individuals have to offer. That is what should be judged in the end.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Hello Shanghai Kid and thanks for the interesting read . :)

[-N-]

Originally posted by shirkers1
[...]if these individuals are skilled you give them props if not you don't talk trash about them. Same should go for people that aren't friends. You can say "I don't like their stuff" or whatever but leave it at that. Their skill level will speak for themselves not your words about them Good words to live by.

N.

[GermanMantis]

Originally posted by wolfen
I also received Mr. Pel's counter-propaganda in my ebox.
..
My annoyance is that until now, my ebox has been totally private, not one spam or hostile email in years.
..
I have resolved the security breach by putting up a universal firewall. Only whitelisted emails addresses will be accepted from now on.
It restricts the use of the box but i value my being spam/annoyance-free.

Wise decision!

[puja]

Hi,

I just wanted to clarify that the mail we all got from WoDaoHH is a reply to all who got the original mail from Jochen. It's written by Shifu Heiko Klisch, but you could have realized yourselfes if you had looked down to the last line of the mail. It's mostly about not 'reboiling' the past and not disclaiming your teachers. If I have the time (perhaps this evening) I can do a translation for you.

As a side note, if you want to send a mail to many recipients, who perhaps don't want their mail-adresses to be known to all, you should put the recipients into the BCC (Blind Copy) field. (No offense meant GBL ;) )

Best regards,

Puja

[puja]

lol, wolfen, 'Tang' is the german word for seaweed, so as usual you can't rely on those babelfish and others.
To come to your questions:
Shifu Heiko Klisch was one of the first students of KUP in germany, but he switched to studying TaiJi MeiHua TangLang under Zhang Wan Fu. He's the former teacher of my shifu Arne Grandt, who now is a direct disciple of GM Zhang Wan Fu. So that's how I know him. IMHO he's a very skilled martial artist who knows his tanglang. I don't think he wants to do any counter propaganda for KUP. Instead the point he wants to make is (brief translation of the 2nd last sentence): Let the past be the past and give it the attention it deserves, concerate on your future, then letters like this won't have any meaning.

Peace,

Puja