S73

[whippinghand]

Would you prefer to just ban me? I would take no offense to that whatsoever.

If you would, but choose not to do it, you're not doing me any favors, or yourself, by keeping me on. You're just wasting your own time, deleting my posts, as well as my time, as I write them.

Ban me, if it makes YOU more comfortable. Or just say the word, and I'll stay off.

[BeiKongHui]

Don't ban Wiping Hand! Every village needs it's idiot!

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[Sihing73]

Hello Whipping Hand,

Why would I want to ban you? ;)
If you post something which is not negative and is useful then I let it be. If you post negative comments and one line cryptic replies which don't add to the conversation then, I may delete them, depending on the content.

You have had ample opportunity to e-mail me and discuss things. You have even, I have been informed, posted some interesting things about me on the VTAA. Frankly, I don't care. If you post things in a positive manner which add to the topic then you have nothing to fear. Consider that there are a couple of things you posted which are still here, not deleted.

It's totally up to you, the choice is yours to make. Be a productive member of this board and add to things. Or........post negative put downs and cryptic one liners which add nothing and may even be insulting to others and such posts will be deleted. I am sory but I just don't get how this is a concept which is so hard to grasp :confused:

Peace,

Dave

[Jeff Brown]

In the past, students couldn't dare to ask questions or say certain things lest their instructors question their loyalty, committment or obedience (aka "worthiness") -- even today it's still very tough to be openly inquiring, especially with regard to the study of Eastern disciplines.

I agree that some things don't belong here but humbly ask that censorship be reserved for only the grossest of violations.

[Sihing73]

Hello Meng Shuo,

I fully respect your post. It is not the individual, despite what he or she may think, which is being discouraged from being posted. Rather it is the content and manner in which it is being done.

Let's be honest, our art has enough petty bickering and political division without the need for any more. It does nothing to further our art if we continue to put each other down and cause strife between us. I would rather eliminate negative posts, or if the poster refuses to change, negative posters than see this board degenerate into something like over on the VTAA.

This is not the best place on the net, and I am far from being perfect or infallable. However, people can come to this board and discuss the art of Wing Chun. It does not matter what their lineage or experience. It does not matter their current or past affiliation. No one has to worry about being put down because of the question they ask. If and when someone does start to post negative things or make sly insulting comments then, for the good of the board, that person can expect certain repurcussions. If they wish to discuss things they, and anyone else, is free to contact me and discuss it.

However, NO ONE has the RIGHT to use this board as a means of PUTTING ANYONE ELSE DOWN nor to prop up their own EGO. This board exists for ALL of its members and all are equal! This board is for the discussion of WING CHUN..

This board has grown over the last couple of months and I hope to see it continue and flourish even more. People are able to discuss their differences in an intelligent manner without having to resort to insults and snide remarks. Oh, sometimes these things do happen. Often, a word or two will suffice and people will get back on track. Other times they see the potential for damage themselves and get on track without any help. And then, there are those that seem to simply enjoy pushing peoples buttons. They revel in making negative posts and poking fun at others. These types of posters really don't do anything to add to the understanding of the art nor do they aid anyone in learning more and growing. No, sad to say these types of posters strive to drag us down and keep us divided. It is this type of poster which I am concerned about. It is them that I will take action and issue with. There are some here with whom I do not agree yet, as long as they are not posting in a negative manner they are free to post what they wish.

I have stated over and over again that this is not MY board but YOURS. So far, I have tried to respect the wishes of the majority here. It seems to be working. Each and everyone is free to contact me directly should they wish to. I often post more than one e-mail to make it easier to reach me. I hope to be able to learn from my past mistakes and go forward a better person. I hope that others can do this as well.

You can reach me at:
dmcknight@rcn.com
Sihing73@Juno.com

Peace,

Dave
BTW: Allow me a moment to explain my name so there is less confusion.
Sihing is elder brother. It does not denote seniority in skill but points to age, or when one started. I am sure there are many who started before me and are my Sihings. However, when I chose the name it was because I do not have my students refer to me as Sifu but as Sihing. I view Wing Chun as a family and I am here to help, as I am able those in my family. I do not consider myself to be qualified to claim the title of Sifu so I am content to remain the Sihing of my students and am always there to help should they wish it. It is in no way an implication or inference that I am any more skillful nor to be considered any higher or better than anyone else. Quite the contrary, I hope it allows me to become more humble.

The numbers 7 and 3 have personal meaning which is not related to the art of Wing Chun.

[reneritchie]

Just a point: Moderation is not censorship. Censorship usually deals with a state or governing entity imposing its will on a publisher or content provider, ie - what they can or can't show on their network, publish in their paper or on their site, have in their library or on their server.

Moderation (or editorial control) is something exercised by every publisher and content provider. Simply put, you can't force NBC to show the video you shot in your basement, the NY Times to print the letter you wrote, or KungFu Magazine to host the message you post. They each (through their editors or moderators) get to decide what they want to provide as content to their viewers/readers.

That being said, I've come to enjoy Whipping Hand's posts though I wish he would elaborate more on his own views. Snarkiness on its own can be amusing, after all, but snarkiness wrapped around productive discussion is pure gold 8)

Rgds,

RR

[hunt1]

I too enjoy Whips posts.At times you could be less cryptic it would help everyone understand your points better.I would like to know where your WC comes from often sounds similiar to mine.
Keep up the posts. :cool:

[Martial Joe]

Hes smart...leave him be...to many stupid people here...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[sunkuen]

Without the Whipping Hand posts here this forum would lack the Yin and the Yang qualities vital to the natural order of the universe.Whipping Hand brings balance to the attempted politically correct forum you are trying to keep inline here.He is the yin up your yang so to speak!!! :D

[whippinghand]

"I have stated over and over again that this is not MY board but YOURS"

Hmmm, you state that quite often, yes. Almost TOO often...

"You have even, I have been informed, posted some interesting things about me on the VTAA"

Not that interesting... All I said is that you and Rene spew a lot without anything substantial to say. THEN, when BKH proceeded to suggest that you should shut me up, I responded by writing, "If only you knew how..."

Like I said in my e-mail to you "nothing personal". But if you choose to take it as such, I understand that not everyone can make the distinction. Moderators are human too, and cannot ALWAYS be objective and neutral.

The best offense is not being there.

Til the end,

WhippingHand

[kj]

Dave,

IMHO, it is a simple matter of personal responsibility. It seems ridiculous to me that a volunteer moderator should be expected to tolerate ongoing behavior requiring every post to be scanned or managed. Banning a person who will not abide by the rules of conduct is nothing at all personal in my view; whether or not we enjoy some or all of the person's posts is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Everyone has a free choice - either play by the local rules or find somewhere else to play. Simple.

If Whipping Hand will not abide the rules and is subsequently banned, it is clearly his decision to have it so. You need have no compunction about it. He owns responsibility for his behavior, not you. And it should be no loss to others, as people are still free to converse with him in a venue more fitting to his style and preference.

It is not my concern that Whipping Hand should be banned. However I do think it is proper to allow him that choice and responsibility by virtue of his own actions.

FWIW, I've had first hand experience with similar situations, and confess my responses have been more direct and immediate. Though admittedly not free from backlash. :rolleyes: Still, your patience far outweighs mine. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Sihing73]

Hello,

The same rules still apply. If someone posts things which are negative and insulting then those posts will be removed. There is a little lattitude to allow for humour and also the tone of the board. However, insulting and downgrading posts will still be removed no matter who posts them.

By the same token, WH did finally e-mail me. I even extended my congratulations and appreciation for his more recent posts, which seem to have a little more meat to them. Seems like he did not want to chance being banned and has started to post things with a little more substance. He has even attempted to add humour so as to lighten the mood. Shoot, he and Empty Cup have even exchanged civil and somewhat humorous posts ;)

As long as WH posts things which add to the board then, as I have said before, there is no problem. If he, or anyone else, posts negative things then such posts will be deleted. If I find that it is too much trouble for me to sift through each and every post then I will focus on posts made by any person or persons which seem to be negative in nature. There are filters which can be put in place which will do that job for me ;) since I am rather lazy.

At present, I will take a wait and see approach. As long as WH, and anyone else, respects the rules and wishes of this board then no action on my part will be taken. However, should posts start to degenerate into negative and insulting posts then action will be taken.

Oh, and WH, don't worry I don't take things personally. As I e-mailed you, I would welcome the chance to meet should I ever get to Canada just as I would welcome the chance to meet anyone on this board if the opportunity presented itself. Speaking of which there is a post on a tourney in NJ this coming weekend which I would refer people to ;)

Peace,

Dave

[Roy D. Anthony]

As far as I see it Whipping Hand did not violate in any way the rules of this forum. If people here put aside their favoritism for a moment, go back and see if Whipping Hand has violated any of these rules and post your results under this topic.
I agree that moderation is not censorship, however when moderation does become censorship then it becomes a moral issue. And by the way, censorship is not easily evidenced by the members since once it is censored the members here cannot see the original post and compare to the censored post.

Quote:
"Wing Chun builds Leaders not followers."
-Roy D. Anthony

[kungfu cowboy]

I have heard rumors that WH was one of the lighting techs on Madonna's Luck Star video. IS THIS TRUTH, WH?!!

Quote:
"Kung Fu Cowboy is the greatest!"---kungfu cowboy

Quote:
"Madonna was snotty during the video shoot"----WH

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[reneritchie]

Hi Roy,

Good points but then, if posts have been moderated by deletion, we can't look back and see.

In the end, I believe members "vote" by the presence. If they believe the moderation is bad, they will go elsewhere. Luckily, there are all sorts of WCK forums on the 'net, from the super-restrictive to the completely unrestricted. Other than that, I think KJ's post is worth a re-reading or two 8)

Rgds,

RR

[Roy D. Anthony]

I love the way you reiterate what I say!

[reneritchie]

It was actually offered in balance. Ah, irony 8)

Rgds,

RR

[Roy D. Anthony]

I guess you tipped the scales in my favor, Hahahaha.
Further more , Dave or Sandman,someone just called Whipping hand an idiot, why isn't that deleted? That is calling names and is negative statements.
Perhaps since it is not you deleting the messages Dave, perhaps Sandman can come forth and explain his deletions? I think that the forum has a right to know.Does the forum agree with me?

[reneritchie]

While Whipping Hand may be a relative/friend of yours, I know him/her probably about as well as I know Dave (SH73) (have exchanged a few notes on online forums) and better than I know Sandman (haven't had the pleasure of any substantial back and forth yet). So, while you may see balance in some favor, I see it simply as balance.

If anyone calls anyone else a name, IMHO, nevermind Forum rules (Dave and Sandman are stuck with those here 8P ), it's just wasted lines better spent discussing WCK. Much like my own post now... Er... On to more productive threads!

Rgds,

RR

[Sihing73]

Hi Roy,

Seems like you and Whipping Hand share a nice history. While I do try to read through the posts and delete what is negative and innapprpriate it is possible to miss one or two. If you would care to e-mail me with the topic where WH is called an idiot I will be glad to look into it.

Sorry guys but between work, family and training time I can't devote all of my time to this forum and policing what amounts to little children playing games. The alternative is to simply place a rule in place which deletes all posts from a specific alias. I am not eager to do this but could be forced to in the interest of time.

I am quite surprised by those who have so much time on their hands. Several people have the time to post on this board as well as two or three others. Kind of makes me wonder when they have the time to train. Conversly makes me wonder about the level of skill as well.

I am not going to spend an inordinate amount of time playing games. If you don't like my approach feel free to complain or go elsewhere. I would rather spend the time and bandwidth discussing the art. Some people seem to have a problem with posting anything of use for the edification of the other members as regards Wing Chun and would rather behave like children crying about every little slight done to them yet not expect the reverse to be true when they do it to others.

As always feel free to e-mail me, hint hint ;)
I feel I have been more than fair but you are welcome to disagree.

dmcknight@rcn.com
sihing73@juno.com

Peace,

Dave

[BeiKongHui]

Roy-
I believe you are referring to my post in which I stated "every village needs it's idiot". Since it's only a mouse click away perhaps you should read more carefully before accusing Sihing73 or Sandman of name calling as they are above that. I, on the other hand am not I just don't have the luxury of actually telling WH what I think of him in person.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[EmptyCup]

BKH what's going on here? I thought I was Whipping Hand's number 1 enemy :cool:

Where were you when I most needed you? :) Oh well...I think within the last few posts, Whippy and me (and even sunkuen) have found some sort of truce...for the time being ;)

[Roy D. Anthony]

You should re-read my post and offer an apology for your false accusation.

That would be greatly appreciated. and I'm sure the members of the forum would agree with me on this one.

And please be careful of challenges in this forum as it reflects to unkindly behaviour.

[Roy D. Anthony]

You should not try to see someone else's life through your eyes. It makes for much conflict in one's own life.

[Sihing73]

Hi Roy,

First let me thank you for your sterling advice. I will heed you advice and try to look at life through the eyes of someone who has nothing better to do but post vague comments at various sites throughout the internet. I will try to think about what such a life must be like, most likley few friends, afraid to openly share any knowledge I may have becuase it may show my true level of skill whihc is suffereing because I spend all of my time at the computer rather than in training. I will tell you in advance though that it will be hard for me to imagine this. I have a hard time understanding people who post on these boards and are unwilling to share what they know openly. Perhaps you and WH could enlighten me, provided you have time away from your other posting grounds.

Roy, you must be a busy man. I would love to take a time mangement class from you. I mean you have time to post here, at the VTAA, teach class and have a life too(?) When do you train? Or have you reached a level where you no longer need to train? I stand in awe of your knowledge and ability, well at least of your ego :D

Please don't keep wasting my time and yours with posts which don't add to the art. If you wish to discuss things with me you can always e-mail me, hint, hint ;) Of ocurse, maybe that would take away the only time you have to train. You could even get an e-mail account on the web from hotmail or one of those so I owuld not have your "real" address. What do you say? You posted your e-mail address once but then removed it so no one could contact you. Feeling a little self concious or just used to hiding and keeping secrets?

Peace,

Dave

[kungfu cowboy]

:D Sihing73: Kickin' A$$, and Taking Names!! :D

"If do right, no can defense!"----Mr. Miyagi

[kj]

Hi guys. Wondering if Whipping Hand is a student of Roy D. Anthony? I heard someone mention that he is, and I see some possible allusions to that in some posts on the board also. Still, I'd rather confirm than assume.

Regards and thanks,
- Kathy Jo
Leung Sheung->Kenneth Chung->me

[BeiKongHui]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Further more , Dave or Sandman,someone just called Whipping hand an idiot, why isn't that deleted? That is calling names and is negative statements.[/quote]

What's up with that? ;)

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[Roy D. Anthony]

Firstly, as you continually re-iterate ,The forum doesn't belong to you or I so you shouldn't refer to our post as wasting my time or yours.
Secondly personal life should not be displayed on the forum.
Thirdly nothing personal.
Fourthly your skill level or your integrity was never attacked. SMILE
Fifthly, my e-mail is clearly in your post about the No Words can express, which by the way is still posted.
Sixthly receiving mailing list is not my Idea of fun.

[This message was edited by Roy D. Anthony on 09-27-01 at 12:21 PM.]

[Roy D. Anthony]

Chop ! Chop !

[Sihing73]

Hello Roy,

First allow me to respond to your latest post by saying that while the forum does not belong to me or you, though in a way it belongs to each one of us, my time does belong to me. I would rather spend it doing more constructive things then entering into a looping debate which will result in no change in your mind or mine.

Havign said that I still see the bandwidth as a real issue. If you check around the otehr boards you will find that the site is moving to another server due to increasing costs. Given the fact that none of us pays to utilize this board, or the others, I think it is only considerate to try and limit posts with no real content or value. Since this is a Wing Chun board it seems reasonable to expect the content of the posts to have something to do with the art. Either in passing along information or advising people of upcomming events and such. It really does not seem proper to use the board to post things not directly involved with the art. To be fair sometimes this is unavoidable, but if a subject just keeps digressing from the art, as this one has done, it is time to move on to more fertile fields.

Having said that I am closing this topic. Should you, or anyone else wish to continue to discuss this subject please feel free to do it via e-mail. I will post mine again, and now that I have yours I will converse with you directly should you wish. Thanks for letting me know where to find it, BTW.

I can be reached at either of the following:
dmcknight@rcn.com
sihing73@juno.com

Peace,

Dave