early detection of an opponent's intent

[kung fu fighter]

Hi,
I was wondering what methods the internal arts use to read an opponent's intent (where to look on the opponent's body and what to look for).

Thanks
kung fu fighter

[Ray Pina]

I can only speak for myself, but there's usually "something", some "tell" or sign.

If there's not, and you're worried about aproaching, a simple forward motion with the head will draw many out. Or, to come in, simple raise the leg a bit higher on your aproaching step feining a kick, this usually draws their intention down at least for a moment to come and ask for the hands.

There's lots of ways I guess. Just keep them guessing as much if not more than you. And even better, don't react off of him. Make him react off of you.

[Three Harmonies]

Wow good question.
I have worked as a bouncer and security specialist in the past, and I can honestly say I have never been engaged in a full out fight. I have had to take people down and out, but never had to resort to anything more than grappling. I mention this because in over 5 years working I believe it was my ability to "read / feel / sense" situations or indviduals that were problematic as too why I never was engaged in a full out fight. For what it is worth everytime I went out of town and left another in charge their were bar clearing brawls. Their were certain people that I knew I would be throwing out when I checked their ID's at the front door. 9 out of 10 times I was right.
One night I could see a group forming at the bottom of the stairs, and though I could not hear what was being said it was clear that one gentlemen was ****ed at the other. I had four of my guys position themselves in a wie arch around the group. I singled out the guy who seemed the most irrate, and mouthy, positioned myself so he could see me. I stood there and stared at him, and when he looked at me I shook my head no slowly and he followed my gaze to each one of my guys around them. He got the point and chilled. Everyone forgot about the argument and went on to have a nice evening.
Now maybe he had no intention to throw, but by simply noticing and acting subtley, but assertively, I ensured nothing happened and no one got hurt. And to boot no one in the bar was the wiser.
The basic stages are reading your opponents facial expressions, body language, manuerisms, etc. The next stage (I believe) is noticing their demeanor. And the final stage is simply listening to your intuition.
Obviously if a guy is clenching his teeth and fists, and seemingly staring right through you, well I would say he is ready to pop you. This also incorporates the second stage since his demeanor is going to be very aggressive and negative in general (and if someone has got an ******* way about them in a bar, they are looking for trouble!).
All of us know from high school what the air is like just before a fight. We all know what that "funny" feeling in your gut is like. What we all do not do is listen to that "funny" feeling! One has to begin to rely on ones intuition, because the majority of the time it is sending up flares for a reason. As to how you practice this....not sure. I know with my standing in Xing Yi and what not has improved my intention, intuition, and focus. I am much more sensitive to what my body is telling me anymore too (that is why I do not bounce any longer, gut the feeling maybe it was not a good idea when we found a kid with a 9mm in a high class bar!). Not sure if standing is the catalyst or not. Get in the habit of listening to what your instinct is telling you. We all have it, just need to listen.

I guess this was more than my two cents worth, but I hope it helps.
Jake

[Ray Pina]

Good post.

[Rockwood]

Yeah good words.

I don't do any fighting or anything for real but in sparring I try to look for the gaps in my opponents and my awareness. To me that is what sparring is all about, not Winning at all costs, but looking, as deeply as possible, into how my mind and my opponents mind is working.

It's really hard but the more you become aware of your own mind's working, the harder you try to sink into your own consciousness, the more time starts to slow down in a way. If you put the time and effort into seeking these "gaps" you will start to notice the micro seconds when your opponents is about to move, or when his mind lights up with the intent to attack. You also start to see when your own mind goes blank, eyes close or body freezes. The more you become aware of this stuff the more you can start to smooth it out and make your mind stronger and more stable.

If you spar just to enrage your animal instinct to win I don't think you develop much. And i think this is why many traditional teachers frown upon play fighting. This is the double edge of sparring. For TMA, sparring is just one of many drills to develop the mind. For Sport it is the goal in and of itself. One is not superior, it's just that the goals are different.

San Ti standing is the best solo training for this kind of awareness. For some reason the relaxed concentration that it develops really helps in freestyle sparring. It's the best training I've ever seen for getting an Intuitive sense of how to move instinctivly when under attack.

-Jess O

[Three Harmonies]

Evolutionfist,
Thanks.
I went to your teachers site and it mentions you guys play the Miao Dao. Could I convince you to share some info on this wonderful weapon either on this board or privately?
I would appreciate it since it is one of my favs!

Thanks
Jake

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

From a pushing-hands perspective, i sense the opponents intentions usually by their "loading" a technique.. immediately before a forward movement most fighters "load" by sinking or retreating slightly.. the hips usually show intent, and the feet usually show weaknesses.. if toes raise up they are off balance and can be pushed into recovery mode where the muscles are compensating for balance and not reacting to technique or impact.. great harm can be inflicted while the opponent is regaining balance.. if the opponent pivots the front foot on the ball of the foot and positions the heel forward, you can expect a spinning technique.. sense the sudden pivot, and step into (inside) the intended spin, cover with one arm and apply negative reinforcement with the other elbow.. a sudden hip movement usually indicates the beginning of an attack, a sudden shuffling of the rear foot forward is a set-up for technique..

The street is different.. and, yes, your instincts are your best friend.. we have active energy fields outside our bodies and in relatively close proximity to others we begin to sense intentions through interacting energy fields.. when your instincts start sounding the alarms, ACT.. or at least prepare for the inevitable.. trite as it may sound, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" is a motto to "live" by.. as was eloquently pointed out by Three Harmonies, your own intentions can be communicated through body language and eye contact.. your confidence, a relaxed but ready posture , a gaze that says "please give me a reason NOT to finish this" will often neutralize the situation.. By the way, Three Harmonies, i like the name.. it is the name of our school.. Three Harmony Tai Chi Association (body, mind, spirit).

At some point, when it is clear there will be an altercation, you need only worry about the first of your opponent's intentions.. beyond that, execute your plan and training.. force your opponent to be reactionary which neutralizes any plan they may have.. even if you are a defensive fighter (ie: counter-puncher, etc...) once contact is made, stick and stay inside your opponents long-range arsenal.. i strongly advocate close-in fighting and training.. it's unsettling for those not used to it and eliminates a good portion of their weapons..

But, at every opportunity, give an opponent an honorable way out.. it is good for all concerned and more often than not, they will take it..

Be well..

[Ray Pina]

Sorry Three Harmonies, I am not a swordsman .... yet!

It is something I am going to start taking up after the New Year but my classmates, seniors and teacher love fencing. They're constantly ordering swords from different makers and I've seen them using everything from French sabers, to foils to Japanese Katanas. My master has even crafted his own boken with some strange curves that I've never seen before.

If you live in the NYC area I'm sure they'd love to have ya. Fencers drop by from time to time. As of now I'm only a brawler. Trying to refine myself little by little. Sorry.

[kung fu fighter]

Hi guys thanks for all the replys,
In wing chun we train to read an opponent's intent through his eyes. Does anyone have experience with this in the internal arts and what cues are you are you looking for? also are there any better methods of reading an opponent's "YI" earlier than this one?

thanks
kung fu fighter

[Wong Ying Home]

First understand Shen Fa

Watch the centre of chest mid sternum, and use peripheral vision to see movement from mid bicep and mid thigh as these are the slowest moving parts of the limbs. It is easy to intercept or avoid most attacks using the above principals

[Tai Chi Shawn]

From my Kempo training (not internal art, of course) we also trained to watch the sternum. Mainly because everyone, EVERYONE (including a Grand Master) uses their "core" to move any part of the body. Recovering from injuries supports that - every time you move one thing, 10 other things hurt too. Watching the sternum (or core, which is actually a little lower) won't tell you what's coming, but rather "something's" coming.

Shawn
ps: noting present company, I'll likely show how stupid I am with every post for the first few months on this forum. Bear with me until I smarten up with experience.:cool:

[Repulsive Monkey]

Well as far as I know you need to develop sticking, joining and following to get inront of your opponents intent without giving yourself away.
That is what Tai Chi will teach you.

[Liokault]

Hi.


Two differant ways to read this question.

Intent to start a fight

or

Intent to attack or move in a certain way once in a fight.



If you want to read if a guy is going to attack you the best advice I can give is to read a book by Geoff Thompson called 'watch my back' about a normal guy (i.e him) who becomes a bouncer

During most of the book he takes people out by pre emptivly hitting then.....normally leading to a knock out.

He states that there are lots of ways to determine if a guy is going to fight no matter what, but the best one is:

He puts his hands up at shoulder level reaching forwards towards the aggressor....like hes trying to calm them down (he will even touch them at this time to see if they have any weapons). If they push into his out streched arms once he trys to calm them again or threaten them into backing down. If they push into his hands twice he considers there to be no way out with out a fight, so takes them out.

The main benafits other than the early warrning is that is gives you a semi guard and keeps punching range open to you.

(every one should read this book. Its the story of a normal martial arts guy who becomes a knock out giving single hand gang fighting (mostly single hand) monster. I met this guy.....hes about 5' 10" and skinny.....but really scary ......when he was showing intimidation techniques, it was like he was a diffewrant guy)



If u want to know about detecting intent during a fight.....well that book wont help u there.