Lama Pai and Hung Gar

[omarthefish]

I've been following a thread on Lama Pai elsewhere and as the discussion turned technical I was astonished at the similarity with Hung Gar, in particular the Crane of course but also the "water" element type stuff from Hung Gar and actually just a lot of stuf from the Fu Hok form. I've seen a few mini-clips now including CTS and I saw really classic applications from the "metal" and "fire" sections of Sup Yin. Most of the terminology is the same too although that's probably mainly just cuz it's Cantonese but how many styles make extensive use of gua choi, pahl choi, tsop choi etc.

Any historical overlaps or famous exchanges between past masters to account for this stuff or is it just stylistic tendencies for southern styles?

[SiuHung]

Interesting Omar...

My thoughts are that the Lama material was influential. Probably much more than previously thought. Heck, look at the Southern styles and count how many make use of the gwa choi and swinging arms like kup choi and pow choi. There's a more than just a few.

[omarthefish]

After starting this thread I wandered into the southern forum and noticed someone else had pretty much asked the same thing except about Lama and CLF. This is making me think it's not Lama influencing Hung Gar or vice versa but more of maybe a regional thing like the way all those Hakka styles go for the pidgeon toed stance with the hunch.

[cerebus]

Well, I've seen that Jamal Bakkar of the Hung Gar division of the Jing Wu Athletic Association (in Hong Kong, I think) who has written several Hung Gar books has also written a book on Secret Sects of Lama Pai. I've also seen a photo of Louisiana based Tibetan White Crane instructor Lou Illar doing what would (in Hung Gar) be called "Hungry Tiger Catches The Lamb" with a bunch of brass weighted forearm rings on, like I've seen Hung Gar guys use.

[WanderingMonk]

If you want to do some reading on the connection, follow this discussion.

http://www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/topic.asp?whichpage=1&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EOther+Southern+Styles%3C%2Fb%3E&Topic_Title=Tibetian+Hop+Gar&CAT_ID=1&FORUM_ID=27&TOPIC_ID=2454

[jun_erh]

I have one f jamal bakkar's book's on hung gar. it's very cool but seems to have been made on a xerox machine.

[Pork Chop]

hey ross

if yer reading this, if i showed you pretty substantial remnants of a form i learned as "6 Power", think you'd be able to tell me if it was from a WYL-descended art?
the name chuek tse out of hawaii ring any bells?
think if i popped for the beer/tea and late nite dim sum after the next elizabeth event that i could borrow some of your time with this stuff?

like me, my first sifu was a bit of a journeyman and picked up a lot of stuff here and there as he bounced around.
the stuff i learned from him stuck the best for some reason & while i may have let chunks of forms drift away over the last 8 years or so since i last trained with him, i never completely forgot.

ps- this is purely out of a "for my information" intention; not looking to go around saying i'm some kinda lama/twc/hop ga/lion's roar guy.
as a matter of fact, i'm working to have just one form to stick with for health, flavor, and long term investment- lately i've been trying to pick up hung gar's gung gee for that purpose. the rest of my time: san shou style drilling/training, to include whatever trad techniques i dig. finding it's kinda tough to learn & practise a form from an art that's pretty "gung" based; while the rest of my practise is almost exclusively "sau".

[bamboo_ leaf]

chuek tse haven¡¯t heard that name in a long time, worked out at his school in HI, he taught CLF, white crane and hop gar. Don¡¯t know if its still there. six powers, I remember a six strength set, six lines of single movements.


http://www.hmaisociety.org/Bios/Grandmasters/Tse.html

this site tells a little of his history

[diego]

Originally posted by cerebus
Well, I've seen that Jamal Bakkar of the Hung Gar division of the Jing Wu Athletic Association (in Hong Kong, I think) who has written several Hung Gar books has also written a book on Secret Sects of Lama Pai.

Dude, do you have a weblink for this book? never heard of it before:)

[HopGar]

I remember some weird story of Wong Yan Lam and Wong Fei Hung exchanging techniques, but that's all I remember.

peace

[cerebus]

Here ya' go Diego: http://chinwu.com/catalog.html It ain't cheap though.

[Pork Chop]

Thanks for the website. :)


Originally posted by bamboo_ leaf
chuek tse haven¡¯t heard that name in a long time,


Yah, my first sifu was training with him till the heavybag broke and he didn't have the money at the time (as a young Airman) to replace it.
Tse was pretty ticked about it, but sifu got some help from Ramona Tang in resolving the issue.


six powers, I remember a six strength set, six lines of single movements.

That's the one I'm talking about.

There were a couple other forms I remember being from 'im. First was this form that I thought was needle in cotton, where you do this tam tui type single leg squat, one hand pointing first 2 fingers to the sky, other hand pointing first to fingers to the ground, with a hooping crane noise. Never learned it, but that move always stuck in my mind.
The other form I remember from him was Kau Da, which had a lot of repetitions of a same arm "sau-gwa-charp" or "sau-gwa-ping" type combo.

[diego]

Originally posted by cerebus
Here ya' go Diego: http://chinwu.com/catalog.html It ain't cheap though.
I remember seeing that book on the net but not for sale...75 bones yikes:) that's probably not even in canadian dollars either...but I heard our dollar is getting closer to yalls...freakin seceret style to expensive and shiat:D

putting that on my wishlist, but not expecting that fat fuq and his reindeers to drop it off any time soon.
Cheers