Modified Wing Chun

[vierda]

Sorry if this has been talked about before, I couldn't seem to find anything in previous posts.

I am new to Wing Chun, but I was talking to
"Grandmaster" Felix Leong (Adelaide, Australia) a while ago. He mentioned that Yip Man modified his teachings because he had students that were bad to him (by bad, I assume challenged him and treated Yip Man badly).

Does anyone know if Yip Man did modify his teachings for most students? I've read a few articles that agree (sorry, can't point them out).

If it was modified, how so?
Does this relate to Chan Wa Shun's teachings?

I know that he didn't teach every student all aspects of Wing Chun, but what I'm trying to ask is if there are fundamental/noticable differences between "modified" and "un-modified" Wing Chun.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I belive that the "modifications" owuld be due morre to body type and the students ability than anything else. For example, if I have a student who was unable to perform a specific technique due to a physical limitation then I would "modify" the approach for them. I think that some of his students may have also developed specific preferences and emphasized them.

If you look at the late WSL he would have tended to use different techniques than say, Yip Chun. Each would tend to compliment his strengths.

Another thing that could have contributed to differences in students would be the time frame that they studied. As Yip man matured I am sure his understanding of the art as well as changes in physical ability would lend to slight changes in his approach to teahcing and the students at the various times would be the beneficiaries of these changes.

Peace,

Dave

[azwingchun]

I wasn't there so I personally couldn't tell you how if any that Ip Man's Wing Chun was modified. Though I have been told that Ip Man taught each student differently based on thier size and build. This was for the simple fact that Obviously a larger person would use Wing Chun differntly then a short skinny guy would. Again I wasn't there so I don't have proof of this, though it makes sense. ;)

[jameswebsteruk]

Quote from David Petersen, long time student of Wong Shun Leung:

“It has been often suggested that Yip Man taught in a fairly unsystematic way, tending to pass on skills according to the student’s size and reach. It is also said that he didn’t have much time for his slower, less intelligent or less diligent students and actually taught few people the entire system in person. This in turn led to many people learning by observing others training, rather than first-hand, and that quite a few actually learn “second-hand” or even “third-hand” version of Ving Tsun filling the gaps in their knowledge with guesswork based on what they could recall seeing others do, or even worse, making it up out of their own imagination! This, of course gave rise to the variation in technique (and the interpretation of these techniques) extant today among instructors of the same generation, not to mention those of their younger Ving Tsun brothers and sisters."

So it might not be deliberate muddying of the waters, perhaps just due to the way people pick up different things from unsystematic teaching. Plus, as Sihing pointed out, different body types and personal strengths will result in a different interpretation of WC.

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

[kj]

Good post with good points, Frank Exchange.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Plus, as Sihing pointed out, different body types and personal strengths will result in a different interpretation of WC.
[/quote]

Some additional factors, among many: age and maturity, prior experience, learning styles, intelligence and perception, patience, general perspective and attitude, not to mention what one believes or "wants" Wing Chun to be, or be about.

[EmptyCup]

Peterson for the most part is right. Yip however, did not want to teach everything...he was forced to teach for financial reasons due to his WWII losses...therfore he only taught a few the system and even then it might not be complete. His teachings in China are glaringly different than his teachings in Hong Kong.

As well, the original wing chun he learned from Chun Wa Shun was different than the wing chun he learned from Leung Jan's son, Leung Bik. Thirdly, Wiliiam Cheung insists that EVERYBODY else learned a negatively modified wing chun whereas ONLY he learned the correct traditional version.

So the terms "traditional" and "modified" aren't so clear cut as there's alot of grey area

[joy chaudhuri]

No such thing conceptually IMO. How would Felix Leong know what Yip man did or didnt do?I also dont buy another well known marketing pitch about
traditional versus modified wing chun!

[El_CLap]

Of course he modified it!!! Only I have the real version, and I will sell it to you for a STEAL! Send your checks and money orders.

[Mokujin]

My instructor informed me that Yip Man took opium to relieve the pain of throat cancer later in life. Its a safe bet that old age and opium is yet another reason why styles look a different.

No offense to the late Grand Master Yip Man.

Peace
:D

[azwingchun]

I have also heard the story about Ip Man and smoking opium. Though another story a teacher once told me was (don't ask me who said this, because it has been sometime and I don't remember)that Ip Man would be asked while (for example) doing the dummy "Sifu, how am I doing?" and Ip Man while not looking at the student would say "your doing fine". Obviously I can't validate this, though it was an interesting story about how and why so many of Ip Man's students have different forms, though claim to have the real Wing Chun. ;)

[CLOUD ONE]

Can anyone claim they have the real Wing Chun?
People are too concerned with if they have the real system. The real Wing Chun is not an object you can aquire. So what is it your doing with all the forms, the two man drills, the chi sao excercises?
what I'm saying learn the essence(the spirit) of Wing Chun, which is alive and not dead.
Just my opinion.

[BoTsun]

A poor workman always blames his tools. Of course, there is good reason for WC experts to explore every avenue in the origin and evolution of the art -- namely, the love of the art! still, those who insist on turning discoveries into marketing material should be avoided.