Just sparred a Shotokan karateka

[sticky fingers]

on a friendly basis. Him: 11 years shotokan karate + 2 years aikido. Me: 2.5 years WC. Very good learning experience. A few points come to mind:
1.chain punches DO work when used in the correct range. He was flailing his arms wildly about in response to my chain punch barrage.
2. disadvantage of chisau- doesn't train you in all the fighting ranges. He had very quick feet and could keep me out of WC range at times with footwork and a superfast front leg sidekick to my midsection. But once I was there, I had the advantage. Closing the gap is something I have to work on.
3. Aikido takes too long to be effective. He couldn't use any aikido techs on me. My hands were too quick for him to grab. He agrees with me on this point.
4. counter straight with round attacks. pretty obvious from a WC point of view. He liked to do front leg roundhouses to my kidneys which I could partially block with gaansau but his ball of foot could still reach my body. My counter was a straight kick to his groin(not connecting of course). but because his feet were fast, he got me a few times before I could counter. Again, more training on my footwork needed.
Anyway enuff rambling, it was good training, especially cos I've been living in Japan for a year with no WC schools around. I've been put off aikido though.

The difference between unclear war and nuclear war is in the way you use the U.N...

[rogue]

Very cool.
Did he say why he started flailing against the chain punches? Was he trying to block or did he just get lost? One technique that sometimes works for me against chain punches or muliple "karate" style punches is to drop low to the side (think bow stance ). This gets me off line and leaves a leg in the advancing parties way sometimes resulting in a trip. Did either of you come up with a karate style counter to the chain punch?

Sneaky fellow with that roundhouse to the kidneys, I assume you were facing him square on?

How were his hands and what kind of aikido moves was he trying, joint locks or the bigger throwing movements?

From now on, enemies who are associated with terrorist activity will not cohabit the globe with the United States of America. William F. Buckley

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[fmann]

Sticky,

Karate/TKD kicking gives alot of problems. Personally, for a roundhouse kick, you have to step in (again, IMHO) to reduce the moment arm of the kick which reduces the force. If the kick is low (like you said to the kidneys), perhaps a chi gerk technique is not out of the question, or even a yap/tan gerk or other leg technique?

But as you've seen, once you get close, you are on even terms.

Rogue,
I find that the ducking to the side doesn't do anything to counter good chain punches. Everytime some one does that, I just track my punches to his head (i.e., I'm raining them down on his side/back of his head, sometimes just dropping down with elbows). A bow and arrow type stance would open you up to a nice groin/inside thigh kick, too.

But I guess it depends on whether you step out horizontally or diagonally...

[rogue]

That's why I said it "sometimes" works. :D I think it's a matter of timing and also how lost in punching your opponent is. If executed correctly you should be off to his side while he stumbles over your leg. I'm now working on adding a spinning sweep that one of my fellow TKD friends used on me.

From now on, enemies who are associated with terrorist activity will not cohabit the globe with the United States of America. William F. Buckley

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-gads.gif
Never forget

[Miles Teg]

Sticky fingers which part of Japan are you in? And what style of Wing Chun do you do?
Are there any other people that there that you can practice W.C with? I was just wondering because Im thinking of going back to Japan to live, most probably Tokyo though.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Chain Punches are not the be all and end all of Wing Chun. There are many counters to your counter. and a very High skilled level Wing Chun artist would have many surprises for you. ;)

[sticky fingers]

rogue:
yes he was trying to block, but it's impossible to block all the chain punches. He wasn't used to someone up so close raining punches. No, I didn't let him work out a counter against it. That would take all the fun away the next time I see him :-)
yes the best way to deal with chain punches IMO is to sidestep, get out of the line of fire and attack low cos that's where they are exposed. It's no use trying to block chain punches punch for punch.
I gave him some nice bruises on his shins where my elbow met his roundhouses but I've also got a bruised pinkie from a block that was too slow.
fmann:
yes I know stepping in is the best counter, but he was quick and my footwork needs more work. I couldn't tangerk his roundhouse but he did leave his groin exposed for a straight kick.
Miles Teg:
I'm in Osaka. There are a few of us that get together sometimes to chisau. There are 2 sifu in Tokyo, Embrey Williams and Kawamura Youso. I can give you their email contacts if you like. Style of WC? no idea. As long as it's a style that works.
Roy D anthony:
I know that. I did not charge at him throwing chain punches. But when you're right in his face, his centerline open, he's retreating backwards what else is there better to do?

The difference between unclear war and nuclear war is in the way you use the U.N...

[Roy D. Anthony]

My COmment was directed towards Rogue. :)

[Miles Teg]

Yeah, well when I was in Japan last I checked out Embreys school. Actually it was quite different from other styles that I have seen.
They use gogles during Chi sao to protect their eyes, and the make noises when they strike, like a fast 'Zu' noise.

[rogue]

"Chain Punches are not the be all and end all of Wing Chun."
Aww C'mon Roy, stop joking around with me. ;) Also I may have a counter to your counter of my counter, so there! :p

I am fortunate to workout on occaision with 2 WC people of differing skill levels. When sparring with them chain punches have been rare and when used of very short duration, more of a couple of links than a chain. I compare this with some beginner (I hope) JKD people I've worked with who chain punch at the drop of a hat, start out past striking range and just kind of go for broke. Please note that not all JKD people do this, just several that I've crossed hands with while taking JKD

SF, for me as a karateka working with WC people is fun and helps me with my inside techniques. It's just cool to compare the styles and see where they differ and where they're similar. Have a blast cuz.

BTW, don't dismiss Aikido based on your friend, two years is a short time with that art. An experienced Aikidoka wouldn't go for a small joint lock before he had control of the person.

From now on, enemies who are associated with terrorist activity will not cohabit the globe with the United States of America. William F. Buckley

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-gads.gif
Never forget

[Roy D. Anthony]

Chain Punches are used to teach a flight path, and a principle.

[BaleFire]

Ive taken 4 years of aikido and i still cant use it effectivly but the instructors seem like they can so it just has a huge learing curve.

I'm stopping 'cause the way the school teaches doesnt work for me (I dont like it) but whatever.

[Jeff Brown]

who needs a chain punch when you can use Wing Chun to: palm-strike the ribs; palm-strike the jaw; finger-thrust the eyes and throat; elbow strike the ear; stomp-kick the knee; bong punch the diaphram; back-fist the head, arms, legs....

chain punches are but a small taste of the full Wing Chun menu of destruction!

"Once I have harnessed the power of the Sun, I will be UNSTOPPABLE!" -- Mini-Me