Southern White Crane

[dre_doggX]

Is it true that one of the styles that made wingchun was southern white crane.
I really wont it increase my kicking aresnal I think that maybe I should study the foot moves of white crane. does white crane have any kicks when doesnt have.

Andre Lashley

[reneritchie]

History is elusive, unfortunately, and so it may be difficult to say for sure. It is known, however, the Fujian White Crane (Weng Chun Bak Hok Kuen) came to Guangdong and that it was practiced on the Red Junk Opera Boats (Hung Suen Hei Ban) when Wing Chun Kuen was first known to be practiced there. Famed opera revolutionary Lee Man-Mao (Li Wenmao) who led the Red Turban (Hung Gan) revolt in support of the Taiping was said to have been one of the most skilled boxers on the Red Junk, and a White Crane boxer.

Oral legends, in as much as they can, support this as well, commonly saying White Crane (from Ng Mui) was the foundation (sometimes mixed with another system by Miu Shun). There are also accounts of elder WCK ancestors which show mention of White Crane being a source system.

However, like other potential source systems, Wing Chun Kuen and the systems themselves (White Crane and otherwise) have now had 150 years or so of independant development and learning one of them as they are practiced now might be different than they were back then.

Rgds,

RR

[hunt1]

For what its worth the WC I have seen performed by the Sui family has a clear crane influence.I have never had the chance to speak with the sifu of this style of WC just some students.

[wingchunalex]

ng mui created wing chun from the snake and crane systems. it is very apparent in the hand techniques of wing chun. bong sau-wing arm. bil sau-a snake technique, bui jee-based on snake. ng mui is also saide to have been a practioner of pumb blossem system, which may have contributed to wing chun's footwork. My personal oppinion on the kicks is that the kicks in wing chun are just basic, simple effective kicks, that are found in almost all styles.

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[reneritchie]

Those are some of the legends. Another is that Ng Mui taught White Crane to Mui Shun who mixed it with Emei snake fist and taught Yim Yee, who taught Yim Wing Chun. Yet another involves neither of those systems. As for plum blossom, I remember reading some material on that years ago that said a man named Feng Keshan created plum blossom fist by mixing Shaolin with another system (akin to Bagua if memory serves). A rebel, he was wanted by the Qing and so used the name Ng Mui (made famous in Qing dynasty pulp fiction novels like 10000 Years Qing) as a cover (though it didn't work and he was subsequently arrested and executed).

Rgds,

RR

[jason8]

Rene> I am amazed man! If I had to give you a dollar for every time that you suprised and ultimatly informed me on some historical aspect of our art, then I'd be poor and you'd be buying!! (seriously, how's your weekend going?)

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Now in terms of white crane and wing chun> In my opinion (the standard "don't blame my Sifu, family or friends for anything that may follow" applies) there are certain similarities between some of the hand techniques in both arts. That said, I believe it is likely that if one were to examine most styles side by side at least a few parallels would be evident. A good technique is a good technique and it is likely that at the formative stages of the different arts (and over subsequent generations as needs arose) people sought to incorporate elements of systems they had once practiced or seen. I guess you could say everyone had their own jeet kune do going (uh oh, now i'm in for it.... I was just kidding!!). Just my take on cross-polination and evolution so to speak.

[reneritchie]

Are the Sui family the ones from China that call their art Ng Mui Wing Chun?

Rgds,

RR

[tiger_1]

im just like to say good topic , cose many wingchungers ***ot for wing chun parth of crane and eagle so..(are that is wing chun ?) ok cool friendly tiger_1 ;)

/

[hunt1]

I am not sure if it is the same family or not.Never spoke to the Sifu only students.It is taught in tallahassee florida and the forms have the same general outline as Sum Nung and Yip man styles but there is a clear crane influence.Bil Jee has crane stikes as well as finger strikes for example.Use the pigeon toe stance with knees very close together.
I have always found it curious that other famous WC historians found south of the border never have mentioned this group since they know of them.

[reneritchie]

Thanks much for the info. If you come across any more, please do let me know. I've seen a little of the Ng Mui Wing Chun, which branched off from Sum Nung's system a while back. They developed a lot more San Sik and 108 point Rattan Ring set, I believe.

Rgds,

RR

[hunt1]

The only family style I really know anything at all about comes from the Lo family.They trace their WC to Leung Jan from his Fatshan days.
By a quirk of fate I was able to learn some of it.Gentleman that taught me was over 90 at the time and spoke no English.His grand daughter and great grand daughter did the translation.Even with that they had trouble with his dialect so I cant say how accurate all the information is .
The WC itself speaks more than anything else.Nothing new or secret but confirmed several things,body structure,etc.
Did learn another hand form and some different dummy and knife points nothing ground breaking.All techniques pure WC nothing that looks like Hung Gar etc.He did have some good stories but as he said "I am an old man cant be sure my memory is accurate I may not tell you the same stories I told 30 years ago."
He was a very cool old man.I was lucky he was bored with gardening.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Do you mind e-mailing me? I have a few questions to ask of you if you don't mind. here is my e-mail address, roy_d_anthony@hotmail.com

[hunt1]

I sent you my email address if you didnt get my e-mail let me know.

[reneritchie]

Very Interesting! Lo Kwai (aka Chu Yuk, or Butcher Kwai), perhaps? If you don't mind, I'd really like to follow up via email. Could you contact me at rene@wingchunkuen.com?

Thanks again,

RR