Side kick.

[Mr Punch]

For those of you who a side kick, what do you use it for?

To me a front kick/roundhouse seem better... faster, harder, more direct etc...

so what situations, distance etc?

Just wondering. :)

[FngSaiYuk]

After a roundhouse kick that has either missed or gone through the target such that my back is semi-exposed. I mix it up with the back kick, spinning back fist, sweep or just spinning around back into a covered & ready position.

So basically, when I'm outside of punching range and my back is semi exposed - if I kick with the foot closest to the opponent, it's a side kick (normally done with a little hop for that extra oomph).

[Oso]

my side is sloooooow, so I only use it after I've created an opening through gate manipulation or if they are stunned after some other strike.

it is fairly strong though....so I count on it to hit pretty hard and can often get a good knock back if not knock down.

[Judge Pen]

The side kick is my hardest kick. It's not my fastest, and my flexibility limits it to the rib area or lower (which is all you need anyway ;) ) however, I find it useful to stop the momentum of an aggressive opponent, especially if you can open the door with good counter-punching or if they have a tendancy to flair their elbows while attacking.

Oh, and I always use the heel of my foot to strike when throwing a side kick, which may be different than some here. I never use the outer-edge of my foot.

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
... I find it useful to stop the momentum of an aggressive opponent, especially if you can open the door with good counter-punching or if they have a tendancy to flair their elbows while attacking...

I also used to use the side kick for this purpose, but now I find solid teeps to be better for stopping aggressive attackers as it's faster and I can follow up with more techniques immediately and I've been working on avoiding backward movement and the side kick needs a lot more space to be delivered properly.

[Judge Pen]

I like the teep too; it's just another kick in your arsenal depending on your placement and footwork at the time it's needed. My side kick is still usually stronger.

[Oso]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
I've been working on avoiding backward movement and the side kick needs a lot more space to be delivered properly.

how are you movin backwards on a side?

why do you feel the side needs more space? more space in front as the leg is a bit longer extended from the side of the body but chambering space is the same.

[Judge Pen]

Flexibility may be an issue. My teacher can nail me with his side kick at close to zero distance.

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Oso
how are you movin backwards on a side?

why do you feel the side needs more space? more space in front as the leg is a bit longer extended from the side of the body but chambering space is the same.

It's my flexibility and the speed at which I can throw the kicks out. I tend to a more squared off stance nowadays over a traditional side ways or sitting back stances so a side kick requires me to step back to create the space to throw the kick out against an aggressive opponent with forward momentum. The teep is easier for me to thrust out in this particular situation.

[Oso]

ok, gotcha.

since I don't throw a side as any sort of 'speed' kick, I usually throw it from the back leg...so, it's all forward chambering and extension for me.

i definitely use a front leg 'teep' type front kick for defensive checking and jamming.

mostly, I just move in and dare the bas tard to kick me....

[norther practitioner]

Oso, being the bear he is says, "I'll eat your kick for lunch, then your jab for dessert."

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Ai Lek Ou Seun
You've trained for 14 years and you don't know what a side kick is for?:confused:

Mebe it's not in his curricula... there are a lot of very good fighters who have trained a decade or more in their art/style who do not train or emphasize many techniques... a simple point is boxing - there are excellent fighters (boxers) who have no idea when to use ANY kicks...

[Judge Pen]

Didn't you win the poll MK posted? ;)

[Oso]

Oso, being the bear he is says, "I'll eat your kick for lunch, then your jab for dessert."

doesn't mean I don't get et myself sometimes...thas jus' my stragedy.

:D

[Pork Chop]

I fight southpaw so i can use my lead side as my "foot jab".

The goal is to get it as quick and flexible as the Thai version; however I'm not sure if it's acceptible to toss at a thigh like the Thai foot jab is.

It's a little hard to throw combinations behind it- but I believe that just takes a lot of dedication and practise; like figuring out how to throw it from a more squared up stance & return to that squared stance quickly.

Another aspect that requires practise is being able to chamber high and fire it (often straight upwards) at or almost at clinch range.

It's a great distance-keeper and distractor. It can accumulate damage over time; or drop someone if it hits the right spot with the right power behind it. It's hard to catch and can cover a great distance.

It's a tool that requires a bit of attention and is hard to create if you're not naturally inclined to do it; that's probably why you don't see more people with it.

I'd like to see CroCop get one (or at least a decent teep) - that guy needs a distance keeper.

[Oso]

Another aspect that requires practise is being able to chamber high and fire it (often straight upwards) at or almost at clinch range.

while the school I trained at for 11 years has a lot of dubious crap going on, one of the things I keep is that our basic 6 kicks (front, side, round, i-crescent, o-crescent, cross) all fire from the same chambered position and are practiced from high, tight chambers so that it's not as easy to tell exactly which one is coming and so you can use them at closer ranges.

[Judge Pen]

We would include a hook kick in that group, Oso, but we are taught the same way.

[Oso]

the hook, at high or low gate targets, is in the next group of kicks for us.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The more I do MMA type training, the lesser I think of the side kick.

The side kick is powerful and hard to catch, but unless you're kicking to the head, it is not a high % KO kick, and for me, that factors into the "risk vs. gain" factor of the situation when one foot leaves the ground.

Granted it certainly a demoralizing kick if you get cough in the gut, sternum, knee, etc..! (I have a good side kick and I've used it and felt others..) but ironically thru sanshou, which uses it so well, I've drilled over and over how to avoid and catch or absorb and catch the kick - I kick you, you get kicked but take me down.. I don't like that trade when grappling is involved.

For my value, use it to "check" when you're moving and feeling him out for reactions..

[Oso]

thanks, ST00, good thoughts about the sidekick.

that's exactly why I don't throw my slow ass sidekick as the first technique of a combination...I would get caught and planted.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
After a roundhouse kick that has either missed or gone through the target such that my back is semi-exposed. I mix it up with the back kick, spinning back fist, sweep or just spinning around back into a covered & ready position.

So basically, when I'm outside of punching range and my back is semi exposed - if I kick with the foot closest to the opponent, it's a side kick (normally done with a little hop for that extra oomph). Oh OK, in that situation I would usually come back with a wheel kick along the same line. It becomes the opposite direction along the same swing, which I find easier to stabilize than changing vector completely and using a side kick. I can see how the hop can help you to stabilize though. Cheers.

Isn't a back kick particularly weak from this position? I've never studied and art that uses one.
Bmore Banga
It's a little hard to throw combinations behind it- but I believe that just takes a lot of dedication and practise; like figuring out how to throw it from a more squared up stance & return to that squared stance quickly.
Maybe that was a problem. I never put enough time into it based on similar observations to ST00 and my lack of flexibility (like you Oso, I don't usually try for higher than the midriff - of course in wing chun there aren't so many calls to use high kicks, and I mostly use the side into the post leg at close range coming straight off a low roundhouse/sweep/stamp to the lead leg).

One of my karate sempai could shoot one out at nearly clinch range, which would take your head off if it caught you.

BTW CroCop seems to be doing OK without it! The Russians don't seem to go in for distance keepers either.


Ai Lick
Nice english BTW, "for those of you, who a side kick."How nice. I've never had a Net stalker before. Like a spell check, but easier to beat. And not as growed up. (We used a big E in my skool since you're being picky.)

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally posted by Oso
thanks, ST00, good thoughts about the sidekick.

that's exactly why I don't throw my slow ass sidekick as the first technique of a combination...I would get caught and planted.

If I led with it, I'd follow up with the right overhand from hell! and then move back out.

[Mr Punch]

Yeah, but there's not a lot else I could think of...

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by Mat
BTW CroCop seems to be doing OK without it! The Russians don't seem to go in for distance keepers either.


I only bring it up after CroCop-Randleman 1 & 2, and CroCop-Silva.
His strategy's real dependent on keeping you outside and taking your head off before you close distance. With Fujita he had a nice knee going for him coz Fujita shot a bit too far out and too low. How easy were Randleman and Silva able to close distance with him? Once they got there it was a matter of how well his sprawl and brawl was working on the particular opponent. As much as i like CroCop; Randleman gave him a gift with that guillotine in the 2nd match.



ST00

I'll take your word on MMA and how the sidekick loses a little luster once the game don't stop at the take down and the takedowns can get a lot uglier. Tiger White used one once in a smaller show; but yah, noone's really used them. Wonder if Marvin could use it.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by BMore Banga
As much as i like CroCop; Randleman gave him a gift with that guillotine in the 2nd match.Man, I could have got that! :D And it cracks me up how a load of people were saying, 'Oh yeah, here's the proof CroCop's really been working his ground game'! :D :D Gotta work on keeping my head up... I'm always getting caught the same way in the shoot. :(

So what's your follow-up combo from the sidekick? If you're using it as a jab you must have some pretty quick follow-up. I suppose if you've worked the flexibility to be able to successfully deliver it from a squarer stance, you've got more pick-and-choose...

[Oso]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
If I led with it, I'd follow up with the right overhand from hell! and then move back out.

ok, right side kick or left sidekick?



and actually, my most oft used kick is something i'll call oso-da ;)

it's a cross between a front, a side and a round. If I pull it off right i can switch between the ball of the foot or the heel and with the foot in either vert or horiz position...it's ugly but does land upon occasion.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally posted by Oso
ok, right side kick or left sidekick?



and actually, my most oft used kick is something i'll call oso-da ;)

it's a cross between a front, a side and a round. If I pull it off right i can switch between the ball of the foot or the heel and with the foot in either vert or horiz position...it's ugly but does land upon occasion.

left sidekick ->right overhand/cross

When you set that foot back on terra firma, you should already be leaning in and planting on it to launch the right.

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by Mat
So what's your follow-up combo from the sidekick?

Rear left straight - lead right hook - rear left straight; all while covering distance, coz if i'm following up i've likely got a runner.


I suppose if you've worked the flexibility to be able to successfully deliver it from a squarer stance, you've got more pick-and-choose...

actually, you start square, then you have to go sideways for the kick (no other way), getting back to square is the tricky part.
Ideally i think you should fire something rear hand and combine with the force of trying to get your hips back square.


I used to be more successful shooting, then something changed and i became less successful; i think it was the change in lead.
I always shot right foot stepping though, but it still probably affects my angle of entry. Probly not as much penetration now either. Still playing with it to see what i can fix, but need more training partners my size.

[Becca]

First three (http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html) Excersizes listed on the far right are great for increasing speed and strength of one's side kick.

I only open with a side kick if the other guy is charging with no real skill, but rather like a bull charging the red cape. A quikc set up, then jam it into thier gut; usually peeps who attack like this aren't wtching what you are doing, and even if they do see it comming, they can't slow down enought to keep from getting knocked on thier bumms.;) :p

To follow up with it? Lots of stuff works but you must drill it, because little of it feels natural at first. If your spin techniques are fast, you can follow up with a spin-jump creasant then close what ever distance is left and lay into the ribs/kidneys.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by BMore Banga
Rear left straight - lead right hook - rear left straight; all while covering distance, coz if i'm following up i've likely got a runner.

Excatly, you can also add some low round kicks in that mix as well.

[Banjos_dad]

good Morning


I would have to weigh in with JP and Oso on that, when I have thrown side kicks in fights, it has been mainly a response to people rushing in. The gut (or dan tien if you prefer) being the target. The combination of throwing the side kick & leaning your weight into it, plus the force of their rush, combine at the gut. It might not KO people, but they seem to not enjoy it, plus it helps keep from going into a clinch or bowled over...

A side kick to head level?? A worthy goal...but if it really matters who wins the fight, keep them waist level (or lower), else one is asking to be kicked in the supporting leg or swept or otherwise upended...

pound for pound side kick is my most forceful kick except maybe for a good solid back kick.

work it onthe heavy bag from two ranges...the rage where you stand and kick it without having to move from that spot, and the longer rnge where you take a chambering step or whatever it is properly called...

[red5angel]

I don't particularly like the side kick. It's ok at stopping rushes or charges. I noticed some people say they use them to stop from being bowled over but I see it happen as often as it doesn't using sidekicks anyway. Usually they fold up at the knee and hip. Sometimes the guy recieving the kick gets the message but usually it doesn't seem to have enough of an effect to make it worth it, except possibly to push off your opponent and gain some room.
I do practice low side kicks to the knee for self defense reasons. I like the knee as a target, but I don't often use them in sparring.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by red5angel
it doesn't seem to have enough of an effect to make it worth it, except possibly to push off your opponent and gain some room.


Sometimes that's a good effect of a side kick too. Push off their hip to give you some space.

[Banjos_dad]

it's true that almost any kick can be jammed, if the opponent is of a sufficient skill level...
I have only gotten into it a couple of times with anyone hwho seemed to have trained, most times just ignorant belligerent bst@ges that needed to get ejected from the bar I worked at...for the most part.

One of the best (most efficient use) times, I was slugging it out with a guy, he was sort of a windmiller, flailing with both sides, alternating. I landed a hard one to his grill which knocked him back about a half step. Then I turned away like I was going to run. He went to launch himself after me, only to eat up a BACK kick to the belly. I felt my foot hit his gut, it was soft and then compressed hard at the apex of the kick. He totally groaned and I could feel the vibration of it traveling up my leg. Took a lot of the fight out of him. It was easy after that...btw, he was so humiliated at being thrashed by an 'old' guy, he called the cops from outside & claimed that I stood on his foot & punched him 'when he couldn't get away..." :rolleyes: Even the cops were laffin.

So that's sort of the idea, I know that 'meeting force with force' is typically eschewed within MA and especially CMA...but that's a good technique to use when someone is making a charge at you. Maybe I just have an exta strong side kick, I work it as a main technique on the heavy bag.

As far as comparing it to a front kick, I can't get the same blast force with a front kick. My front heel kick has some pop to it, but its more like a jab almost compared to my s/k.
Another guy was giving me a hard time, wouldn't leave, all ****y...eventually when I finally greenlighted on his ass, he ate up a hook punch to the jaw, he reacted by bending forward at the waist, I guess he was trying to cover his face. Looked like he was looking for something on the floor...what he found was a rising front kick to the center of his face, his buddy had to help him go home. That's one of the few times I can remember using a front kick in a fight, and probably the most effective front kick I've thrown, that comes to mind.

[Starchaser107]

I am a predominantly northern stylist so forgive me while I blashpeme and say that side kicks are very effective, but kicking high is often dangerous flash and overrated. I find side kicks are more powerful and effective when planted anywhere from the torso down.
I have used high side kicks effectively, most memorably in my earlier days of training , sparring in karate tournaments kicking opponents out of the air. High side kicks are very useful for this purpose, if you're ever faced with overzealous karateka or taekwondoers who decide to launch an attack on you by taking flight.

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, the "jump and backfist" technique you often see in tournaments have "side-kick" written all over them.

BD, thanks for sharing your experiences. Sounds like solid applications of good techniques.

[Banjos_dad]

i usually wind up posting more than I intended...but yeah, if you spend an appropriate amount of time working the basics, they will be in your "tool kit" when you really need them. I think when Sifus talk about working the basics, they have that in mind, in part at least.

I'm envisioning you guys kicking TKD'ers out of the air & I like it...that jumping backfist thing seems like a product of point fighting strategy. I could see someone arcing through the air (in Slo-Mo) and then **VrrrvvrvrvrrrTTT!!!** (sound of a phonograph needle skating across a record), bam! halted by a sidekick

[red5angel]

Sometimes that's a good effect of a side kick too. Push off their hip to give you some space.

yep, that's more often then not, what I see happening on a side kick. Of course like anything in the martial arts it all depends on your ability to generate power, your speed to get set up properly and your skill level.

[No_Know]

The knee is a deflection or block to a low or middle level rising or round house kick. Go through the block...turn thigh over--chamber then kick the off balanced person.

Intimidation. To catch your breath one might threaten a firststep sidekick or a chambered sidekick to give pause. The other person not wanting to get hit hard.

Step in spinning sidekick for going around or spinning close to your ally to reach the opponent. The extension is paused to hit the target.

Cham,ber being used for power, less pullback to allow a quicker kick. kick to interfere with support leg or kicking leg.

[No_Know]

drop the outstretched~ leg at or behind where you were standing:

Take a guard(ed) position

Hop instead of drop. Ma a back kick with the supporting leg of the initial sidekick.

Fold the knee and pivot to face your body forward. press your foot(toe out), driving the heel.

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A side kick is intimidating whether or not it is used. Used in training against an object, it strengthens the support leg and instructs as to recoil. It's a training developing kick. It's a power kick--therefore used less often for when the opponent is less likely to offer much resistance...in general