Bruise removal

[IronFist]

I have a bruise that's like 3" x 1.5" on my shin cuz I did something stupid yesterday. The bruise is 3" vertically and 1.5" in width centered over my shin. On the part where the bone is (the inside half) it's pretty flat, and on the half where the bone isn't (the outside half) it's pretty swollen. I have an old bottle of Wing Lam's dit da jow. What's the best way to heal it? I need this bad boy to heal so I can keep training. When I got home last night I iced it, and then before I went to bed I rubbed jow on it for 5-10 minutes. I use latex gloves to apply the jow so it doesn't make my hands smell. That won't hurt anything, will it?

So what's the best way to apply the jow? I was using my palm mostly and rubbing up and down along the shin. How hard should you push? Should you try to push the bruise back down?

It's been less than 12 hours since I got it so it's still kinda red, but there's a white circle toward the top. That must have been the place of impact. I'm assuming it will turn black and blue in the next few days.

How often should I apply the jow and do I need to use ice anymore?

Thanks.

[brothernumber9]

I've been told that most jow use prefers the applied area not to be washed for several hours so that the mixture can sink into the pores and skin and into the collected and stagnant blood close to the skin. Also, some jows will help initiate or facilitate some healing processes, and some will just break up or help reabsorb the blood (bruise). For the latter, it will make it look better but may not make it feel better or help healing much beyond breaking up and reabsorbing the stagnant blood. If you persist to train where contact will occur on the area again then you may have to just suck it up or put on some shin guard or the like.

To some degree, a bruise linament may not be wanted. If the area is one that you are trying to condition and toughen up, then some jows will break up calcium deposits, in effect delaying calcification that naturally occurs in some minute and not so minute cracks resulted from blunt or acute trauma, even if there is no pain or bruising, hence weakening the structure.

[Oso]

you went at cross purposes with the ice and jow

the ice reduces swelling by constricting capillaries and such...but, it's those capillaries that are going to carry off what the jow is loosening up.

I never ice impact injuries like what you seem to have. instead, applying jow and rubbing towards the extremity only. don't rub back and forth but towards the toes.

last night, for example, I caught a good one on the forearm near the wrist. It immediately purpled up and was about the size of 1/2 an egg. After we got done with the drill I immediately jowed it and spent about a minute rubbing it down towards my fingers.
I did this 3 more times during the class and today there is no noticable swelling or bruising and just a slight bit of tenderness.

just my .02


*edited for stupid typing mistakes

[red5angel]

don't forget the ancient american secrfets of aspirin and ice. The pain is due to the swelling so those will help.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by red5angel
don't forget the ancient american secrfets of aspirin and ice. The pain is due to the swelling so those will help.

Aspirin won't do anything for the swelling, tho.

[FngSaiYuk]

The fastest way I know of to heal a bruise that large is to do the following:

clean the area thoroughly
heat up your dit da jow
take your vitamins (in particular bioflavinoids & vitamin C)
apply the jow liberally massaging from the center of the bruise outwards for about 15-20min (you're basically trying to push the bruise down while applying the jow)
do not touch/clean the affected area for 4 hours to allow the jow to absorb and work
apply the jow thrice daily
drink plenty of water
don't apply ice - it's too late, the ice should have been applied as soon as you got injured

[red5angel]

you know what I mean ;)

it will do something for the clotting.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
To some degree, a bruise linament may not be wanted. If the area is one that you are trying to condition and toughen up, then some jows will break up calcium deposits, in effect delaying calcification that naturally occurs in some minute and not so minute cracks resulted from blunt or acute trauma, even if there is no pain or bruising, hence weakening the structure.

I've never heard that before. Why would jow be recommended for iron fist and iron arm and shin training then?

[Hau Tien]

Heh... you're not going to like this method, as it hurts like a *****, but this is what my old sifu used to do when one of us would smash our shins up.

He used a linament... I believe it was Sheng Gui Shui, but it could have been jow. He applied that to the area (which often was swollen and had a "goose egg") and would then "rake the bad chi" (using hard, steady pressure) using his knuckles. The idea was to spread the bruise out, flattening the swollen area. It hurts... a lot... and it makes the bruise LOOK reall nasty (as it gets all spread out) but a bruise that would normally have taken me 2 weeks to completely heal was gone in 3 days whenever he did this.

He did mention that one should "rake" away from the heart.

Anyone else had this work for them?

[FngSaiYuk]

Yep, works for me... but I don't use my knuckles to rake, I just massage outwards...

[Oso]

Originally posted by Hau Tien
Heh... you're not going to like this method, as it hurts like a *****, but this is what my old sifu used to do when one of us would smash our shins up.

He used a linament... I believe it was Sheng Gui Shui, but it could have been jow. He applied that to the area (which often was swollen and had a "goose egg") and would then "rake the bad chi" (using hard, steady pressure) using his knuckles. The idea was to spread the bruise out, flattening the swollen area. It hurts... a lot... and it makes the bruise LOOK reall nasty (as it gets all spread out) but a bruise that would normally have taken me 2 weeks to completely heal was gone in 3 days whenever he did this.

He did mention that one should "rake" away from the heart.

Anyone else had this work for them?

yep, that's similar to what I said.

[SevenStar]

I do that as well. I was told to always massage away from the heart, as if you rub towards it, the loosened clots may travel toward it.

[Reggie1]

Originally posted by IronFist
Aspirin won't do anything for the swelling, tho.

Actually that's not true. Aspirin is an anti-inflammatory drug. It helps block the chemicals that cause inflammation to reduce it. For bruises with lots of swelling it's not going to help much, but taking aspirin does help w/ swelling.

This is why when you have some kind of body pain w/ inflammation / swelling, you should take aspirin or ibuprofen instead of Tylenol. Tylenol doesn't do anything for inflammation, it's just pain relief.

[IronFist]

I knew ibuprofin was an anti-inflammatory, but I didn't know it would do anything for bruises.

I thought on Wing Lam's Iron Body tape he said to massage bruises toward the heart so the blood could recirculate or something.

[Reggie1]

Ibuprofen / aspirin aren't that great for the bruise itself. They help w/ the pain and swelling assoicated with the bruise, but they won't do too much with the discoloration.

I've always been taught to rub jow away from the body.

[Oso]

the point is dispersal of the accumulated fluids...massaging towards the heart would concentrate them again too quickly...massaging towards the extremeties would allow them to be picked up by the capillaries in smaller units first, thus distributing the fluids throughout the circulatory system and the lymphatic system.

i actually sorta think that the lymphatic system is more what we are aiming to get the bruise fluids (blood and lymph) to get absorbed by...

the lymph system is not a pumped system like the circulatory system and relies on body movement, and i think in this instance, massage, to move fluids through the system

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

Pretty good points on the Jau-

1) Leave it on

2) Press the bruise with your thumbs until it flattens out (I was actually told to push it towards then gently push it away from the heart)

3) Apply once or twice a day.

I've found that applying Jau in this way makes your bruise "develop" faster and makes it bigger and uglier than it would normally look (as someone else mentioned).

But it also makes it heal more quickly and prevents calcification (something you actually don't want.)

[SevenStar]

another thig is you may wanna get some quality jow - I'm not sure what the wle mail order stuff is like. aren't you near chicago? talk to fa_jing - he knows a place in chinatown that has some quality jow.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

True. It's nice to have good jau.

But you can even use rubbing alchohol if you want to.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by SevenStar
another thig is you may wanna get some quality jow - I'm not sure what the wle mail order stuff is like. aren't you near chicago? talk to fa_jing - he knows a place in chinatown that has some quality jow.

w00t. fa_jing, hook me up. :D

[phoenix-eye]

Best stuff I've seen for taking out a recent bruise was Minyak Gosok or "Bee Brand" oil. Made a real angry forming bruise disappear within minutes.

It's at the bottom right of the page on this link.

http://www.sosusaco.com/product/productList.asp?iCatID=100&iSubCatID=105&iPage=2

PE

[phantom]

Somebody once told me that you should have somebody else rub a bruise out for you because you probably will not be able to rub hard enough yourself. I think this may be true if you have a brusie on your arm. Does anybody know? Thanks in advance.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Ai Lek Ou Seun
But you can even use rubbing alchohol if you want to.

How does that work? :confused:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by phantom
Somebody once told me that you should have somebody else rub a bruise out for you because you probably will not be able to rub hard enough yourself. I think this may be true if you have a brusie on your arm. Does anybody know? Thanks in advance.

it's probably psychological. you know how much it hurts, so you don't want to rub it hard and make it hurt more. Someone else won't care, as it's not them that's bruised.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
How does that work? :confused:

jow is alcohol based, from what I've seen of it. The jow gets stronger the longer it sits in the alcohol. Maybe pure alcohol without the herbs could be used as a "poor man's jow" or something.

[Water Dragon]

*rubs one out*

[Jhapa]

so what type of rubs are good for iron training. is there any stuff to take internally also to heal from the inside. names and websites would be great.

I haven't started iron training, but at my school, SD, we suppose use 3 (1 to open pores, 1 to penetrate the muscles, bones, etc and powder to be taken to heal from the inside).

[Water Dragon]

If you're doing Iron training thru SD, you should be fine with Ben Gay.

[IronFist]

I just figured rubbing alcochol wouldn't work without any herbs in it.

So it's been a day and a half now and it's still just a big red area the size of a hockey puck It hasn't started to turn black and blue yet. Maybe it won't ;)

I rubbed it with jow for like 10 minutes last night, but eventually I felt like I was using all my jow so I stopped. I rubbed it pretty hard, but not so hard I was wincing in pain. My hand still smelled like jow even through the latex glove. I guess it's strong if it can penetrate through that. I even washed my hand with soap afterward and then it smelled like soap + jow. Hehe. This morning I touched the bruise to see how sore it was and that made my finger smell like jow. I meant to do it twice last night (once when I got home from work and once before I went to bed), but I was making food and eating so I ended up only doing it once.

I guess this is cool in a sick way: When I hit my shin and I knew I was going to get a bruise, it didn't hurt nearly as bad as it would have a few months ago. So that's good, right?

What happened was, my friend who was holding the Thai pads for me went to get some water and while he was gone there was this square iron(?) beam that holds up the ceiling in the gym. It's covered with padding in case you accidently run into it. So I hit it softly twice and thought "cool, it's pretty padded" so then I kicked it with about 40% power and found out that the padding wasn't as tough as I thought it was. So, I pretty much kicked a square corner of a metal beam with a little padding in front of it. Ouch.

[Jhapa]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
If you're doing Iron training thru SD, you should be fine with Ben Gay.

:p :p :D

i might be doing iron training through another instructor and for future reference if i move.

[IronFist]

The hair is falling off of my leg over parts of the bruise where I've been rubbing so hard :)

[Toby]

People often confuse Xebby with having a Brazilian wax - really it's all the friction :D.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Ai Lek Ou Seun
True. It's nice to have good jau.

But you can even use rubbing alchohol if you want to. If the smell gets to you, you can also use a lavander oil/aloe vera mix.

I like Jow for somethings, but actually prefer a brand called Maridian. If I rubit down with LOTS imediatly, then soak in a very hot bath wile rubbing it down again followed by overnight linimant use, I will almost never have a visable bruise and injury to joints is cut way short. I sprained my ankle last thursday to the point I could barely walk on it by the end of class. By tuesday, it had heald sufficiently that I didn't start limping in class until [Iafter[/I] doing ladder sprints then 30 minutes of breakfalls. It didn't bug me at all untill we started the drill segment, wich involved head/sholder high roundhouse kicks.

[Broken One]

for serious bruises i normally soak a piece of folded up towel paper or a tissue with jow then put it on the bruise and wrap a layer of saran wrap over the tissue then wrap a tensor bandage around it and leave it till the morning, hope that helps :)

[IronFist]

Yeah um after I rub jow in would it do any good to wrap it with seran wrap or something? Or does it have to breathe?

Also, it will be a week tomorrow since I got it and it still hasn't turned black and blue yet. Is it not going to? It's just a little bit yellow this whole time. It's still sore on the bone, and there's a little swelling, but other than that it's not too bad.

I just think it's weird that it hasn't "bruised," per se. Do you think it's not going to? Or is it just taking forever to bruise?

Also, on my other shin I have a cut where I hit my shin on my bedframe about a month ago. This wasn't a training accident, I just wasn't watching where I was going. This freaking cut is taking forever to heal I guess because it's on a bone and so it doesn't get a lot of blood. Do you think that's why?

[Becca]

It would have by now if was going to. What youare describing is a deep tissue or bone bruise. They don't normally turn purple. The purple ones are skin bruises. Ugly, but generally not harmful. Bad bone bruises can be very harmful if you rush the healling prosses. Deep tissue bruises are the ones that let loose clots into the blood streem, and need to be handeled with care, as well.

You guessed right about the reason the cut didn't heal quick.:)

[IronFist]

What about getting a heating pad and putting it on my shin for 20-30 minutes at a time. That would increase bloodflow, right? Would that do anything to help it heal? I know they say to ice it, but I thought icing was only good in the beginning to prevent swelling. Once it's done swelling wouldn't you want to apply heat to it?

I have a few smaller bruises on my other shin now that already turned red/brown and it's only been about 12 hours since I got them. Those are being normal bruises.

The big sore spot on my right shin that didn't change color very much feels swollen on the bone under the skin. Hehe. Oops. I've been massaging it every night, tho.

[Becca]

Yeah um after I rub jow in would it do any good to wrap it with seran wrap or something? Or does it have to breathe? Wrapping it makes the heat more intense, but be warned, you can actually give yourself a 2nd or 3rd degree chemical burn if your not carefull. That being said, I have used plastic wrap on the very bad ones. Usually I stick to self-adhesive ace wraps, though. Heating pad is ok, too. Also less likely to get burns.;) Just keep messaging and laying on the liniment. The bump likely won't go away, but it will help the bone tissue heal more soundly, and help reduce calium build-up.

BTW, I found out why I couldn't get the web address for Maridien. The guy who makes it (Sifu Galiano) doesn't sell it on the internet anymore. You can likely get some via which ever Pai Lum school is closest to you, though. He also makes a first-rate red flower oil (sort of like tiger balm).