Since you losers closed this topic here's my reply to "America: Worst Terrorist"

[omegapoint]

The reality is that the architects of this supposed American ideal and system were slave-owning hemp and tobacco farmers. The constitution was written for white men who owned land. When they say "all men" they weren't talking about the middle or lower classes, minorities or women. You guys have always had to work yourselves to death to make Aristocrats with superiority complexes richer, and more powerful.

They were seen as traitorous British citizens and totally unpatriotic. Revolutionaries are often considered unpatriotic, but if you talk to most politicians, American citizens and historians, they would say George, Thomas, Ben and them are the incarnations of patriotism.

America ain't perfect and probably never will be. Too many dense folk and knuckleheads, but you ain't got to continuously lie to the people.Capitalism can only capitalize and compete for so long before the masses become hip to the illusion. There is a provision in the Constitution that states whenever the govrnment isn't being run by the people and for the people, we have every right to revolt and revamp. Go check it out. It's in there.

Utopia is a lofty and unrealistic concept to elitist because they don't feel that all humans were created equal. Only true FREEMEN, with the knowledge of the intricacies and dynamics of the machinations of deception. The term "Manifest Destiny" means to make your future a reality, or in other words, to conjure up, or make real your destiny by doing what you gots to do to make you and your kind comfortable for as long as possible.

The fact is that most people are without the slightest inkling as to what the true world dynamics are and always have been. It use to be about "Divine Right of Kings", and now the only difference is the titles, and the fact that most CEOs and the like are much richer and more powerful than many kings past and present.

You're the Sheep to be fleeced and herded and they're the Shepherds. I was in the Air Farce for 2 terms and believe me I'm not unpatriotic. Au contraire, I'm the exact opposite. It's funny how a lot of civilians with no military background are so patriotic just because people who claim to be better and smarter and more privileged than you tell you to be. Look at the back of a dollar bill. What does "Novus Ordo Seclorum" mean? What does Annuit Coeptis mean? Why do they have the symbol for Freemasonry on our dollar bill? What does that have to do with America and its "Judeo-Christian" ideals? How are we Judeo Christian based when none of the founding fathers considered themselves Christians? They were all Deist, go look it up. Isn't that "Eye of Ra" symbol floating above the pyramid a pagan, Egyptian symbol for the fallen one? Do you people even have a clue as to what is really happening around you?

Can you answer any of those questions? Are you really a patriot if you support these things? Or are the real patriots the ones who love this country for what it can and WILL BE? The bottom line is land and owning things. How you gonna get everything and have just "ONE", when you gots many? E. Pluribus Unum- From many comes one. One way of thinking, worshipping, and living. One race. You get all these things through population control, hence the bombing of innocent, starving women and children that we're here to save.... Foooools!!!!!

PS: Didn't our mighty commander in queef join the National Guard to avoid serving in Vietnam? Why don't these good ole' aggressive boys fight their own battles??? Hmmmm....

What bin Laden did was terrible, but there is a "cause" for every "effect". These modern alchemists that have made gold (money) from frikkin' blood, sweat, tears and paper will tell you that. Remember reading is fundamental. TO ONE.... Hahahahahaha!

[Kung Lek]

hmmmn, a bit cynical and a tad nihilistic there omegapoint.

so what is your point? you don't like the comfy chair you're sitting in?
You are vapidly against the amenities that living in the western world gives you?

It's pretty easy to spout the utter garbage you spout when you sit where you sit and the only reason you may be sitting where you sit is because someone else died on a field of battle for your lame excuse of an assinine self so that you could have the "right" to spout such nonsense.

Just what is your problem with the rite of free masons? Clearly you know very little about the order other than what some drunken commie hippy shouted out to you during a rally against capitalism somewhere sometime.

You think that totalitarian regimes such as the Taliban or petty criminal governments knwo what the truth of living right is? What is it? Do you think the romans knew?

Get a life and shut the hell up. The truth is, it doesn't matter who the leader is, it matters that there is a leader. even as just a symbol of power.

It doesn't matter that you or I may not like the ways of the world, what matters is that there is a world and that we live in it and thank the lord above that we happen to have been born in part of it where we at least have an opportunity to grab the brass ring instead of listening to the rants of facist, draconian madmen and suck desert asand morning noon and night.

very easy indeed for you to spout your version of what is truth. Here's the truth omegapoint. There is no truth! Only a perception of what it is and it differs everywhere depending on the opportunity that is given to you.

Where do you think it was decided that you, the common man should even have the opportunity to learn to read.

sit down and shut up.

and while you're shutting up, contemplate this...

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[gazza99]

An optimist beleives he lives in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this to be true.

You both make good points, and I am indeed extremely cynical myself. However the things omegapoint mentions are not going to be changed. History is not going to be re-written, and human nature will always pervail over the psycho-babble of a few bleeding hearted liberals. kill or be killed, only the strong survive, or only the rich get richer, whatever cliche you wish to use that is the nature of the beast.

Like it or leave it, learn to play the game, or be beaten, your choice..
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Xebsball]

Calling the mods "losers" is not a very nice thing to do.

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[omegapoint]

As for your support of elitism; if the freakin' architects of western society want to pan off their fraternal orders ("Ordo ab Chao") something for the common good of man, then why don't they include all people not just cracker-assed white guys and a few token minorities. Why so secretive? who the fizuck do they think they are? They need numbers to prevail (figuratively and literally), and backs to break for their own comfort. As for what I know about Freemasonry the Bilderberger group, the Council on Foreign Relations, The Club of Rome and the like, you'll never know. I'm not enlightened or ILLuminated. I don't claim to be the one you should vote for, worship, obey or pay allegiance to.

I only state the facts based on research and empirical evidence. Bin Ladin and them are just as Satanic as the rest of you elitist and the time for "delta" is soon. Trust me, all knuckleheads-- "lights out"--- it's coming soon to a country near you. Get back to moderating this forum based on the First Amendment, and not your personal feelings. As for luxury. How the hell do you know how I live or the rest of the world for that matter? Kung Lek is a Chinese name right? Ever been to the orient? Have you peeped what the majority of the world looks and lives like?

Speaking of Fascist, the Nazis use to use that "One" BS, too. Didn't we get a lot of their educated folks and scientists? Didn't we profit off the gold from millions of slaughtered Jews? The world just keeps on spinning like that one last neuron floating in that abyss you call your cranium. Get with it, and open your "Eye of Ra"...

PS: To the oblivious idiot that called me a liberal, ain't u got the gist sister? Liberal, commie, conservative, moderate, autocrat or whatever is EXACTLY the same beast. Satan is legion. Satan divides. Satan kills (like bin Laden) and calls it the "good fight". Murder is murder... As for survival of the fittest; That erroneous statement credited to Darwin is 100 % fallacy. He never used those words "Survival of the Fittest"! I know 'cause I have my undergrad degree in Biology! Now I'm in Med-school and Kung Lek has the nerve to call me "common". You elitist think you're physically and mentally fit? T-Rex and Giganotosaurus were the baddest mofos for tens of millions of years. Where are they now? We'll see who's fit in the coming years. No clue.... And don't ever lump me together with some good-ole' boy political network again!!! They may got you trikkked, but I know it's all "blue-printed"!!!

[This message was edited by omegapoint on 10-18-01 at 08:45 PM.]

[This message was edited by omegapoint on 10-18-01 at 08:47 PM.]

[Xebsball]

BTW, did you guys notice that the patriotic ways of most americans can be a type of fundamentalism?
At least thats what some history teacher dude said on tv the other day.

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[Kung Lek]

i don't care if he calls me a loser, I've been called worse, sticks and stones.

It's the position that is taken in his message.
It is wrong, he is biting the hand that feeds him and that is the fundamental error with what he has written.

The free world may have had some hard beginnings but none of us, not a single one would be sitting at a computer and discussing issues such as this if not for those "free masons" who started this all and laid the foundations for the free world.

Not one of us, not a single common person of non noble lineage would have the chance to get a university education and not one of us, not a single one would even understand the content of what is being written here if not for those who strived for the ends, which is freedom for all.

Do not confuse dissent with disloyalty, was part of a phrase that ed murrough(sp?) stated. This is that it is your right and mine as free citizens of the free world to activily question the intent of those who would lead our countries.

There is no evil empire at work here. The evil empire is the ignorant realm of those who attack the free world.
Let's not get the position to foggy here.
peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Kung Lek]

Because i'm a moderator doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.


peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[prana]

and i thought mods were bots :D :D

good job :)

[Budokan]

Who you callin' a loser you suckheaded f*ck?

You keep hacking me off and I'll sic Goktimus and his pod of fellating pie-dropped faced freaks on you.... Yeah, then we'll see who the loser is.

Oh, yeah.

K. Mark Hoover

[DrunkenMonkey]

Sorry to burst your bubble, Omega, but...

Only the Southern colonies produced tobacco, while all of New England and west were into ship building, fishing and other industries. Hemp back then was also grown for ROPE you idiot.

The Constitution was written to denounce the evils of the British Empire and announce the rights of a free America. True, it was written for Whites, but that was that at the time.

The revolutionaries you are mentioning, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Washington etc. were patriots of the AMERICAN DREAM, while the other who followed them simply wanted to cut off ties from the British because of outrageous taxes and restrictions.

Overall, despite some truths in your cynical babbling, you cannot compare the America 200 years ago to the America now. We have come a long way, no matter what you say. Even 15 years ago, you would never see a black man next to a black woman on TV with equal rights. Today you see interracial marriages etc.

And the court system, despite its "corruption" is much more fair that even 20 years ago.

Sure, you can look at the bad side of America. But, what's the point? Where is that going to get you? Being a cynical dead-beat is just like preparing to die. If you feel so strongly about what you believe in, take an initiative and stop whining.

"****ed be the day that befalls us in a most hostile manner that shall compromise our Country, and ****ed be the great lengths at which are required of to stir our Patriotism." - Anonymous

[Serpent]

It's not biting the hand that feeds you.

I'm sure Omegapoint is just as grateful as everyone else that lives in the "free" west for the opportunities he has. These countries were built on solid and good foundations with founding principles to be proud of.

The problem is the blatant abuse of those precepts and the bloody mindedness of those in power now to stay in power.

Remember - karma's a *****.

[Silumkid]

I always love how the dissidents taking the fad stance love to say what school they go to or where they are from as if it makes their point any more valid. Sounds like somebody has been listening to too much Rage Against the Machine.

Biting the hand that feeds is quite correct. Noone is saying you have to agree with everything the government does...I certainly don't. But I thank my lucky stars quite often that I live in a country that I can express my views without fear of being shot or run over by a tank.

Yes, many of us do have a quite good idea how the "rest of the world" lives. But how is that an argument AGAINST our way of life and government. If anything, it's a testament to our success. And as been said before, losers always hate winners.

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[DrunkenMonkey]

Omegapoint, you live in America. Your mind, body and demeanor are molded by its societal intricacies, political wants and needs, distastes, disgusts, expectations and downfalls, no matter if you think so or not.

You can go ahead and preach your "views" all you want, attempting to "open" the eyes of your fellow citizens to the "truth" when you are simply fooling yourself.

You self-righteous donkey, you think you're so much better than Kung Lek or the rest of us, when you're preaching your own religion in an attempt to prove that your view and your view alone is what makes you superior.

And just incase, I don't think my views are the answer either. Trust me, I've been at your point of view, and sometimes I still revert to it. Being a cynic is fine. Its what helps us grow in mind and spirit. But a powerful man is the man who has the idealism to believe that man is inherinantly good, and the cynicism to know that this is not always true.

[brainpan]

Omegapoint, very good post. It's a shame that most Americans won't get it.

<hr >
<font size=2 type="helvetica" color="blue">Hong Kong Phooey is a #1 superguy! </font>

[Serpent]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:

Omegapoint, very good post. It's a shame that most Americans won't get it.

[/quote]

Too true. But even if only one or two wake up, then there's some hope.

[Ryu]

Budokan, I don't know what in the hell you just said, but I think you're pretty darn cool. :D

Ryu

http://www.kfccinema.com/news/12/zu2-05.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[tanglangman]

"but the 'developing' world has no bread"

"well then let them eat cake ;) "

[Wongsifu]

maybe omega point likes the thought of tying up his woman at home and covering her up, so he can use her as a wooden dummy whenever he likes ?

The point omega puts across maybe true but its also true that it happened many many years ago , the american nation has learned and wether you are black or white in america the constitution applies to you , there aint no "slaves" any more.

Its like saying i wouldnt go to a kung fu teacher who used to get into fights when he was young , because it is againts the essence of kung fu, Yes when he was young , now he learnt from his mistakes he is one of the best teachers to go to.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Kiasyd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Omegapoint, very good post. It's a shame that most Americans won't get it.
[/quote]

Yes, I also think that was a great post... Maybe he was too radical on some of the points, and probably that's why he's being bashed for it.

-- Kiasyd

[scotty1]

Omegapoint's first post was a bit OTT, and it shouldn't have started with abuse but I think that Kung Lek's reply was very reactionary. Moderators are supposed to be moderate.
Omega was stating his opinion. Criticising America doesn't make him a Taliban supporter. You don't have to have complete faith in the American way to hate the Taliban. they are a nasty bunch of guys. Quote:
"Sure, you can look at the bad side of America. But, what's the point? Where is that going to get you?" WHAT? Are you seriously trying to say that there's NO POINT in looking at the world realistically? You go ahead and bury your head in the sand, not all of us are selfish or naive enough to do that. By the way, I went to see Propaghandi last night, a band that some of you might be advised to check out (esp.their website) and one of their lyrics goes something like this: I am well aware of the irony
The system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds
Thats exactly why priveleged fu9ks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream
Until EVERYONE has EVERYTHING they need

Anyone ever heard the English phrase "I'm alright Jack"? Count your blessings, yes, I count mine everyday, but don't forget about the people that are not blessed. :(

[LEGEND]

SOUND LIKE A TROLL POST...especially with the hahaha ending.

A

[tanglangman]

IfwhiteAmericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfa llapart
(Words: Nicky Wire/Richey James; Music:
James Dean Bradfield/Sean Moore)

Next Thursday you're invited to watch Rising
Tide's live coverage of a gala tribute in salute to
Ronald Reagan. Host Haley Barbour joins
special guest lady Margaret Thatcher in
celebrating the former president's 83 birthday.
Ticket's are 1000 Dollars a plate but you can
see the event free on GOP TV.

Images of perfection, suntan and napalm
Grenada - Haiti - Poland - Nicaragua
Who shall we choose for our morality
I'm thinking right now of Hollywood tragedy

Big mac: smack: phoenix r: please smile y'all
Cuba, Mexico can't cauterize our discipline
Your idols speak so much of the abyss
Yet your morals only run as deep as the surface

Cool - groovy - morning - fine
(If white)
Tipper Gore was a friend of mine
(America)
I love a free country
(told the truth)
The stars and stripes and an apple for mommy
(for one day)

Conservative say: there ain't no black in the union
jack
Democrat say: there ain't enough white in the
stars and stripes

Compton - Harlem - a pimp ****** a priest
The white man has just found a new moral saviour
Vital stats - how white was their skin
Unimportant - just another inner-city drive-by thing

Morning - fine - serve your first coffee of the day
Real privilege, it will take your problems all away
Number one - the best - no excuse from me
I am here to serve the moral majority

Cool - groovy - morning - fine
(If white)
Tipper Gore was a friend of mine
(America)
I love a free country
(told the truth)
The stars and stripes and an apple for mommy
(for one day)

Zapruder the first to masturbate
The world's first taste of crucified grace
And we say: there's not enough black in the union
jack
And we say: there's too much white in the stars
and stripes

**** the Brady bill
**** the Brady bill
If God made man they say
Sam Colt made him equal

© 1994 Sony Music Publishing Lt

[toddbringewatt]

Wow, omegapoint. You sure do know an awful lot. Checked any of this data out for yourself beyond reading it somewhere or just having it told to you by someone?

Not that if you didn't it means it isn't true but you preach it like gospel.

What are the names of the sources you got this data from?

I agree with what you said about books by the way but the crux of the matter is which books written by whom and for what motive.

Know what I mean?

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

[KC Elbows]

Okay, I think the tone of the initial post was more than a little preachy. However, I must state several things in regards to the methods of response.
-As far as founding father worship, I don't buy into it. The founding fathers couldn't even stand each other, and I'm supposed to admire them all? Rediculous. I admire what they began to accomplish, but the bulk of the American ideals that I hold central to the countries glory come later in US history, from Abolitionists to the present. The founding fathers didn't always mean their noble and sweeping statements to include everyone, but we do. Does that make us less noble than they? I don't think so. We have followed the arguments they started to their logical conclusions, and they would never have supported those conclusions, so I refuse to suspend the growth of the American ideal as I see it to take part, even for a moment, in worshipping the founding fathers. I admire some of them, but only within reason.
-The survival of the fittest thing annoys me. That spin was put on Darwin's ideas by big business, and their concept of social darwinism was infantile at best. If Darwin's idea was as simple as survival of the fittest, then why did he never assume that the end result of evolution would be one line that eradicated all other species, and even other branches of its own species? Darwin handed survival to those species that fit best WITHIN THE ECOSYSTEM THAT THEY INHABIT. Sorry, just a pet peeve when people put forward scientific theory as put forward by nineteenth century steel mill owners.
-The Freemason argument eventually turns into a dead end as far as research goes. It assumes that everyone who was a part of the organization was productive, and proliferously so, in furthering the groups goals. Since we don't know what specific individuals did in the organization, their being a part of the organization does not tell us much about what they did there. However, kung lek, ****, never thought I'd hear you spout the phrase "drunken commie hippy"! I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the freemasons created their own reputation, not the drunken commie hippies. I mean, the were banned from some countries! That doesn't happen for no reason. Plus, those possibly freemason founding fathers were working with an entire populace of would-be Americans that had nothing to do with freemasonry, against a nation that had its own freemasons, so the creation of the US can hardly be credited to the freemasons alone, even if they did sneak their funky symbols onto everything they could.

Kung Lek:
"Not one of us, not a single common person of non noble lineage would have the chance to get a university education and not one of us, not a single one would even understand the content of what is being written here if not for those who strived for the ends, which is freedom for all."

To an extent, I agree, but you also must recognize that George Washington did not fight for the black man to go to college, for the asian to marry white folk, for the hispanic to read, or even for the Irish to have a good job. Its not right to give him credit for the great deeds of later heroes. I agree that we should be thankful and fight for what we have, but the founding fathers are not the source of most of that wisdom. I feel that the American Ideal is to find ways to create freedom for all, and that means looking beyond the narrow views of freedom held in the past.

To Omega, the early history of our country does have some heinous stuff in it, but we have worked to rise above that, and to bring enough benefits to the world to counter any suffering we have caused. Certain points I agree with you on: it IS unpatriotic to turn the blind eye to our own nations failings, but what we do to change those failings cannot come until we understand the causes of those failings. I think you might have more success with your argument if you don't try to tell everyone what they should do: it makes you sound like you really do feel you are an illuminated one.

[Kristoffer]

I think that the afghanistan goverment really suck ass. So does Americas. It is a really boring and endless topic, discussing, who is the bigger moron here. To bad that it is the citizens of both countries that has to suffer for their ignorant ´"leaders". Neverthe less, speaking of the civilians that USA and the talibans are murdering. I love to be in USA, I've been to Ny and I loved it there. But i dont think that americans has anything in their history to be really proud of. at least not when it comes to war.

So Kung Lek, i dont think you should ask members here to "sit down and shut the hell up". That is really imeture. everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is mine. God bless all of us. I really, honestly hope that the americans and the rest of the world brings ALL terrorists to justic, and kill UsAMa, Saddam and the rest of the alikes.
World peace would be nice you know..

peace
:rolleyes:

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[Kristoffer]

lets close this crap thread and discuss KUNG FU

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[les paul]

All of these posts are clear examples of how ignorant Americans can be. Has anyone here ever read any of the founding Fathers works? Has anyone here ever read Locke’s “Two Treaties on Government?” How about Hobb’s “The Leviathan?” Or maybe Pain, or how about Adams? How about the Federalist Papers?

Most of you, judging by your posts, need to go back to school, because they show just how uneducated you really are.

Due to our modern liberal education system our “founding fathers” are seen to be a bunch of slave cuchi lovin, greedy white *******s.

Question:

How many of you on this news group got the balls to sign your own death warrant?
Huh?
Huh?
That is exactly what our “Founding Fathers” did when they signed the Declaration of Independence.
They told the strongest and most powerful nation at the time to **** off

It was seen as treason, and King George & Co wanted blood!

Does this sound like a bunch of greedy white men looking to make a few bucks?

Before our Founding Fathers came along Democracy was just an ancient idea discussed around a ******* campfire for thousands of years.

So if you think they sucked because they didn’t directly benefit your social/racial group “think again Jerk offs!!!!!!” Do really you think there would have been Civil War/ Emancipation if didn't have the experience of Democracy? How would we have been able to tell the difference between free labor and slave labor without those values? Could we have had a Civil rights movement without those values not instilled in us?

Yea right! Pull your heads out of your Asses anytime you un-American butt pirates….

Now for you classic un-American liberal fascist thought Nazis, who hate America because you feel (notice how I didn’t use the word “think”, idiots like you don’t) somehow we go around the world putting our jackboots down suppressing innocent victims.

Look around …………


Look around.

I said………. open you’re ******* eyes and look around!!!!!!!!!!!

This great nation of ours practically has an open door policy, we practically let anybody who can get here stay.

We are the largest supplier of aid in the world.

All of our military bases and embassies have asylum policies were anyone could defect (especially if you live in a country that is noted for oppression)

We have FREE …………FREE trade

****, we let other nation walk all over us in the name of free trade!!!!!!!

Why do people put themselves in great danger to come to America?

Do you know how many people die every year trying to reach this sacred soil?

Why are they killing themselves to get here if were are this evil empire?


Does this sound like the qualities of an oppressive nation bullying others around?

HELL NO!!!!

You all sound like a bunch of whinny little American candy ass, Nintendo playing, butt plunging pussies.

I bet the lots of you haven’t even served.

Bottom line *******s. Can you show me a nation who structures its Government (to include its laws) with the main idea of letting a citizen persue his/her own self-interests?

No you ******* can’t!!!!

This is the reason why we are who we are!!!!!!!!!!
And this is the reason why others hate us and this is the also the reason why we are strong!!!!

Ask any economist, ask any political scientist

Before America there was no one who gave power to the people. After us France, then Britain, then Germany etc …….You get the idea…. people saw what we (our founding fathers did) and have wanted to be like us ever since.

Don’t you know dictators hate giving power to the people?

Don’t you know that a nation of citizens working for its own self interests instead of an elite few, will quickly out perform any other nation, unless its structured in the same fashion?

This is what makes us great!!

This is Locke 101

People wake up!!!!

Our founding fathers change the world and changed you in the process, thus making Americans great!

Most of you need to stop listening to the six o’clock news and re-educate yourselves.

Don’t forget to go back and slap the person who claims to have educated you because they lied

[This message was edited by Don't call me spanky! on 10-19-01 at 03:03 PM.]

[origenx]

When you can't win by moral supremacy, then win by force. MIGHT IS RIGHT! HIEGH!

[KC Elbows]

Exactly who are you talking to, Spanky? :p

[Ryu]

Well it started out good...

Ryu

http://www.kfccinema.com/news/12/zu2-05.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[toddbringewatt]

Spanky,

Great post!

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

[BAI HE]

Omegapoint, very good post. It's a shame that most Americans won't get it.

Class Warfare is the oldest struggle on the books.

Jefferson "owned slaves".

If you want the real America research John and John Quincy Adams.

Those boys weren't popular, but they helped safeguard and develop a tiny seperatist democracy that became a bloated Superpower so that whiners like us could enjoy the best quality of life recorded in the history of this miserable mudglobe.

http://www.aiki-buken.com/images/sokaku.jpg

[KC Elbows]

"...miserable mudglobe..."?

[Merryprankster]

I don't even know where to start:

Class warfare is the oldest on the books, true, but attributing all history to it is a poor substitute for thought. Marx had it wrong. Class warfare is a powerful force, but not the only force, nor does it render the future immutable. I didn't think anybody was offerring class warfare as a total explanation, just thought I'd throw that out there.

Revisionist history ****es me off. Yes, I am aware that a good deal of our Founders owned slaves, and were deist. I am also aware that they were sexist by todays standards, and probably a great many other things that we would today consider unnacceptable in leaders of men.

Here is the great fallacy of revisionist history: It attempts to judge the character of historical figures/movements/societies of the deep past based on the standards of today. This is simply ludicrous. It's like saying the Romans were lousy engineers because they never constructed a laser. All events and decisions have a context within which they MUST be studied or they can never be understood.

The United States has had its fair share of low points, but it's also had its fair share of high ones. It's a mixed bag, as is any construct in which people are the main equation. Our goal is to try and increase the good bits and limit the bad.


A final thought:
You want to know what gives me great hope for the human race, and the US/Western world in particular? Every part of our past we malign is a social injustice. Every part of our past we are proud of is an expansion of social justice, and a committment to trying to ensure persons are treated justly.

[omegapoint]

First off, you all have solid points. We all experience reality from a different angle so I expect some to disagree and others to concur or have a different take altogether. Trust me I'm an American thru and thru, but I'm a member of the human race first and foremost.

As for Locke, Donne, Rousseau, Descartes, Kant, Nietzsche, Marx, Jefferson, Paine or whoever, I couldnt give a flying fizuck what they think. I interpret things as an intelligent adult based on my perceptions. I won't lie though, as I know that no thought or idea or ideal is totally novel. We are influenced continuously especially by the influential. All I'm saying is that if you lie to your populace and lie with dogs you gonna get fleas, and disenchantment. It just doesn't make since to collaborate with a demon unless you're the devil himself!

Bin Laden was our Saudi friend. Saudi Arabia and Egypt are two of the biggest obstacles to logical thinking in the Near-East. Israel is in there too.

For folks to claim that what I'm spouting is Fascist is just plain stupid. Social Darwinism, "Survival of the Fittest", was the policy of Germany, Britain and the US, all Teutonic (Germanic)-based societies. Eugenics and other social evils were perpetrated in all those countries, so to be surprised that Germany became the most Fascist of the National Socialist-minded countries is just plain naive. What did it take for us to join WWII? Was it something Hitler did, or was going to do? Think about it. Uh-huh...

As for being a Troll, I think that I've disagreed with some and agreed with others on this forum, but I've never been called a troll. In fact I've been registered here for a long time. Did what I say make absolutely no sense to you, or did it scare you some how? Good! Wakethe****UP!!! So kiss my asss, Billy Goat Gruff! You ain't the stankass Spanky that was in Basic Training with me in the Air Farce, are you? Take a freakin' shower! I hope not 'cause that Spanky was pretty frikkin' clueless!

So to make a long post longer, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I knew I would. It sucks to be slapped in the face and brought back to treality! Have a great weekend, all... Peace-uh-Hutttt!

[Sam Wiley]

That is not the Eye of Ra floating above a pyramid. Technically, it is a Frustrum below the eye, something completely different, and if that eye belongs to anyone, my best guess would be Nyarlathotep, the Unsleeping Black Prince of the Abyss, or one of his associates, such as Shub-Niggurath. It was rumored for a long time that Ben Franklin was a devil worshipper, as he was a known to hang out with members of the Hellfire Club.

*********

[les paul]

I'm talking to people who just don't get it
KC.

Merryprankster: great post As a Social Scientist(I have a BA in political science) I can't stand revisionist history. It's all sh1t, all of it, rotten to the core


Omni-punk your last statment said just how ignorant you really are. The people who you have named, have given you your social values, your belief that you have inherent rights and a whole lot of other things that make up the western ideology/thought

Because of them you are who you are!!!!!!!

Like it or not, that is the truth.

[omegapoint]

Spanky-Doodle-Dandy: I think you're projecting. Just because I listen to your incoherent rambling or Nietzsche's or Locke's, doesn't mean that I'm gonna do and think like them! Don't get it twisted, they've conditioned you not me! My approach is UNIQUE. Your's is STATUS QUO! So who is influencing whom.?

BTW are you Stanky Spanky? 43rd Training squadron LAFB, Tx. (March '91 start date)? I doubt it though as most airmen I've known were semi-intelligent, at least.

As for who wrote what books I read---who the fukkk wrote those textbooks you've read? Who picks out the textbooks and finances the different public school systems? I wonder....

As for the Eye of Ra.... I wouldn't doubt that what you say is true, regardless, I know the facts are that the All Seeing Eye of Horus or Osiris or Ra has no place on the money of a "Judeo-Christian" society. We did get that Trinity concept from somewhere. I do know that it symbolizes the broader fraternity of the Cult of the Serpent and has something to do with the fallen ILLUMINATED one (later Lucifer or Light Bearer story in the bible). Whatever it's all about deception and we all know who the Prince of Lies is. I heard the other day that in Court an omission, or leaving something out of a testimony, is considered lying. I thought that was interesting and ironic. That may say something about keeping stupid, irrelevant secrets. They're laughing at you as they pull the wool over your eyes.

Don't mean to trouble everyone with this paranoid junk, but it sure makes a sheep think. Later.

[bratok304]

Any american who doesnt get the message is a stupid person. (i know, i know, americans are stupid in both ways, but they are also fat no?)

usa#1 (oh cant u see...tadadadada da...) :p

,|,, (**) ,,|, :D :D

All american ppl who read this, should go like this: :mad: but a smart person would go like this: :D

So **** it. usa#151

[CD Lee]

>>>America ain't perfect and probably never will be. Too many dense folk and knuckleheads, but you ain't got to continuously lie to the people

We in 200 years of ignoring traditional bullsh11t, have built the most powerful nation in the histroy of earth. Knuckleheads eh? We have been and still are the driving factor in developing technology, the first on the moon, the first nuclear device, the ability to transform the so called rebels and unpatriotic into the most productive nation in history. Say what you want, but at the end of the day, the United States produces more (GNP), works harder, and drives global inovation more than any other civilization on this planet.

Our forefathers are dead my friend. Their loyalty to the ideals of our constitution, not their loyalty to British aristocrisy, is why we call them patriotic. We today, are driving our lives and the world through their idea of a fair society. We are not a frozen picture in time...and they had slavery, and in the contemplation of their idea of freedom, we as a nation gave that to slaves and made them FREE.

America may not be the most ideal utopia (there is none---wake up), but America is the best country in the world to let a person pursue their dreams, free enterprise, and freedom to speak.

[CD Lee]

>As for the Eye of Ra.... I wouldn't doubt that what you say is true, regardless, I know the facts are that the All Seeing Eye of Horus or Osiris or Ra has no place on the money of a "Judeo-Christian" society.>

I work with Muslims, Hindu's, Christians, Jews, and people who practice other things. We are more than Judeo-Christian...we are becoming a lot of things. And guess what? We can put whatever the fukk we want on our money. How the heck do you know it 'has no place' on our money.

You are right about one thing however, you are a parnoid fanatic.
:D

[CD Lee]

"As for Locke, Donne, Rousseau, Descartes, Kant, Nietzsche, Marx, Jefferson, Paine or whoever, I couldnt give a flying fizuck what they think. I interpret things as an intelligent adult based on my perceptions."


Well Fizuck! I am sold. I agree and I so much give a fizuck what YOU think. What have you done for our country? NOTHING. With your statement, if I actually take your advice, should not give a fizuck what you think either. You have zero credibiltiy if these men are not worthy or our thoughts. Thanks!

You know...I feel so much better, your preceptions and intellegence as an adult are all I needed.
You 'DA MAN! :D :D :D

[blaktiger]

I just had this same drawn out argument with a friend of mine. America is so this...america is so that...wahh wahh wahh. This someone knows of other countries from reading books and cute magazine articles from National Geographic, without seeing the realities of what goes on.

"Sweeden has the best education system. They buy you an apartment. They give you three (sic) months off to have a baby...etc."
-- My mother and I had to remind her that Sweeden is a monarchy, and the people have to pay 40% of their income in taxes. This so-called free apartment is actually a waiting list for an apartment in a neighborhood that YOU can't choose. Can you imagine being forced to live in a free apartment in Compton or Brooklyn because the government says so. And god forbid the next king ends up being a asssshole that you can't vote out of office in four years, like our presidency...

I then suggested she take a tour of Afganistan. Or perhaps even Saudi Arabia, as I have. Wouldn't it be just LOVELY to be watched by a "morality policeman" on every corner? Yeah, THAT'S better than America...

Ok, this is not a perfect country. Guess what? The only Utopia is somewhere in the South Pacific with Chris Atkins and Brooke Shields in The Blue Lagoon. So if you wanna run around naked and eat bananas and figs, be my guest. Watch out for the coral snakes, though.

Every system of government sucks, because even in Communism, someone up top keeps it all. You want to make a difference in this country? Stop spewing your yawn inducing rhetoric and go work a homeless shelter for a few days. Write letters. Vote IN EVERY ELECTION. Heck, run for office. Anyone can throw tomatoes from the balcony, how about YOU getting up on stage and singing a tune?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I'll be too busy lookin' good!"

[Merryprankster]

Omega,

Your approach is neither unique nor especially relevatory. There have been people saying what you have posted for years. The idea that those who believe in America and its fundamental values, and have some measure of faith in its government are sheep led around by the man is nothing new. Conspiracy theorists, the far right and the far left have been saying this for a very very long time.

As far as your disinterest in what has come before, it betrays you. The reason you study what others have thought is not so you can adopt their viewpoints, its so you can avoid rehashing old ground. It's wasted effort to develop a whole line of thinking if somebody else has done so. It's even more of a wasted effort to create a line of thinking and not be familiar with its counter arguments just so you can understand both sides of the story.

[Sam Wiley]

Technically, Lucifer was associated with Apollo, as he was the first star to appear in morning before Apollo's solar dawn light shown. However, Lucifer is not the "illuminated one," which would imply him to have some sort of enlightened mind. As far as the light bearer thing goes...imagine being in a dark room, believing that there are no windows or doors simply because you can't see them. Suddenly, a candle is lit in the center of the room, and though you see no windows or doors, you see that the candle is sitting on a table, something that, although you had never really thought about it, has suddenly come into view. You stare for a few moments and walk to the candle and pick it up. Now, with this light in hand, you realize that you are able to look about in the darkness to see exactly what's there and what is not if you so desire. And you begin to doubt the previously accepted "fact" that there are no windows or doors. And so your search for the truth begins. And what if you DID find a door? What would you do then? Open it, no doubt, or at least try, and let the Light flood in.

Lucifer is the candle of doubt. Just when you think the darkness will go on forever and that there is no way out, Lucifer makes you wonder. Just when you believe dawn will never come, Lucifer appears signalling that the sun will soon rise.

And if you are referring to either Lucifer or Satan as the Prince of Lies, they are in fact not. We've already gone over Lucifer, who has nothing to do with lies, unless exposing them. But Satan has nothing to do with lies, either. Satan was originally the Soul Accuser, pretty much a spiritual District Attorney who accused you of sin in front of God and tried to prove you guilty of it. The thing that PO'd people about this was that Satan had a really good staff and was never wrong. However, once He Himself had sinned (the sin of Pride), Satan became the original rebel spirit.

Now, with that said, if you want to start a rebellion, to whom do you pray? To God, who has never had to rebel, since He Himself is the power in charge and wields that authority with an iron hand? Or would you pray to Satan, the Rebel Angel, and Lucifer, who would stir up support in those who would normally not take sides? To whom do you think the founders of America prayed when starting their revolution, knowing that some of the founding fathers hung around with known devil worshippers, and knowing that the signs on the back of the one dollar bill are at least non-Christian if not outright Satanic?

There's more to the story. An incantation discovered by John Dee and Edward Kelley, published as early as 1584, talks, in a nutshell, about planting people in positions of power who are puppets to someone behind the scenes, and that these puppets, although they look like salvation, are not, and are leading the eye of the people from the real power in charge. When you look at the picture of the Eye on the back of the dollar bill, to which part of the picture is your eye drawn? The Frustrum...or the Eye? The "eye of God" eh? Well, this incantation tells us that the puppets mentioned above will dwell in the heavens as comforters of the soul...as Chicken Soup for the Soul? As balm, as Soma for the soul, to keep your mind occupied so that you don't realize that the Frustrum on the back of that bill does not reach a point (in other words, it does not release power, but eternally collects it), and the base of power on the bottom is not connected to the Eye at the top!

Just something to make you think...and perhaps doubt...

*********

[Xebsball]

Should we talk about Thor too? His brother (sorry cant remember the name) i belive was the prince of lies and stuff. Thor's dad was Odin, the god of the gods and so on.

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[bratok304]

Cd Lee, you should be proud of america, they lost to poor rice-cultivating dudes, they bombed hiroshima (yay for the nuclear bomb huh>?) first on the moon, who was first in space? hum..lets see, USSR, i bet they dont teach you that at school. usa won't win this war.

usa#151 (oh cant u see...tadada..dada...)

u should be like this now: :mad:
and i am like this: :D

...dirty piece o sh*t...pigs....

[Kung Lek]

Sam- good to see you back.

Where have you been? Studying in a lost library somewhere?

Hanging with Mr. Crowley? :D

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[gfhegel21]

Omegapoint=conspiracy theorist.

[les paul]

Omni punk!
Unless you have been locked in a shed and fed pig slop for your whole life and cut off from the rest of humanity while breeding with your kin, guess what buddy…. you have been affected and influenced by the people you named.

Another thing:
Why don’t give me a quote from Hobbs, Locke or maybe Rousseau. Anyone will do, then give be an explanation of what they meant by it.
I bet you can’t or you will try to give me some sort of sop****re half-baked bull**** attempt, you found on the Internet.

I’ve studied the works of these people for a long time, don’t try to bull**** me.

In the immortal words of Plato “Your just a caster of shadows on the wall”

People like you are nothing but attention seekers “Oh America sucks, Oh everybody listen to me, America sucks!
People like you point to a little speck of dirt on the great giant flag of Freedom and Democracy and say, ”See! Look here everybody this is really how dirty America is. I told ya so!” Yet the Flag is so big your puny little mind can’t see were the flag starts or stops!
**** your wearing it and don’t even know it!
Please….
You’re like a member of the team that won the World Series sitting in a corner pouting, because your team won. “I wanted to be the underdog , I wanted to be the underdog you yell!”
Yet I’ll be ****ed if you would quit the team now! (i.e. move away from the United States.)

Grow up!

Maybe your one of those poor misguided peace loving Berkley California tree humping, fruit loops?

I hope not!

They say, “Violence only begets violence.” What a hypocritical, egotistical and selfish thing to say. So we can’t retaliate for Sept 11t?!

Aye bull****!

I want to go up to one of them and punch’em right in the nose! When he tries to defend himself, I’ll say “Ah ah ah ah don’t do that! Violence only begets violence” when he says’s your right! “I’ll strike him and knock him down to the floor again!
Sooner or later he will figure out that he has to defend himself from my aggression.
In the end he’ll convince himself that its ok if he defends himself from me, but when it comes to America, or the 5000+ families that lost somebody do to Hagi and Salami’s joy ride to HELL on Sep 11th, “that’s wrong” we shouldn’t defend ourselves. That is why they are selfish and egotistical let alone hypocritical. (To them its ok if they defend themselves, but it’s not ok, if America defends itself……. bull****) Why? because they love to hate the government and for no other reason than that!
Never mind the government is right.

What a joke!

I think your tune would be different if you would have lost somebody on Sept 11th!

The bottom line:
People like you don’t think, you feel!
Hence the premises were you are coming from, are wrong!
Go back and take logic 101 “please… I’m begging you.”

I respect free speech
I don’t respect Anti-American free speech.
And I love to discriminate against ignorance and bull****.
This is the way I was raised and this is the way I’m going to be!

Go USA!!!!!!

“Spanky has left the house”

[Xebsball]

"I respect free speech
I don’t respect Anti-American free speech.
And I love to discriminate against ignorance and bull****.
This is the way I was raised and this is the way I’m going to be!

Go USA!!!!!!"

Sounds fundamentalistic to me.

Thor's brother (or half-brother, i dont know) is Loki.
http://users.ev1.net/~peanut/bio-loki.jpg

And here is Apollo:
http://users.ev1.net/~peanut/bio-apollo.jpg

Anyway, maybe i should include Captain America to keep this USA related.
And maybe we could talk about Thor's hammer and how it relates to shaolin kung fu hammer.

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[Sam Wiley]

Hi Kung Lek. Actually, I've been devoting more time to practicing. I had to rearrange my practice agenda recently to where I have 7 one hour long practices sessions per week instead of a huge session each day. And then there's work on top of that.

Oh, and Odin was not the king of the gods. Far from it. Odin was the Creator, and the one who discovered the Runes, and was the patron of many things. He was the most respected of the gods, the most worshipped, and most feared. But Odin was never a "god or king of gods." If anything, he was Chieftain, but only because he proved his might and wit in battle. Remember that Odin dies in Ragnarok, as do all the other gods except a few of the lesser gods and the evolved humans created by the gods for the purpose of repopulation of the Earth after the Battle and the construction of a new world.

Thor had several brothers, but none of them were gods of lies or deception or anything of that nature. I believe you are referring to Odin's blood brother, Loki, who was never a god anyway. Loki was a giant, a trouble-maker, and had a big mouth, but Loki was not a god of anything. In fact, Loki in several stories was very brave, and in one particular story was the only one present at a feast who told the truth, though the gods present pretty much kicked his arse for it. Loki was a practical joker who went too far sometimes, even to the point of murder, for which he was punished by being chained inside a cave with a snake dripping venom into his eyes, and yes, he is one of the destroying forces in Ragnarok. But god of lies simply because of that? No.

As far as I know, there was no real god of lies in Norse mythology. Each and every major god is responsible for some lie or another, even Odin and Thor. And try though people might, you cannot take Norse gods and compare them satisfactorily with Roman or Greek gods. Nor can you really compare them to Christian or any other type of religion, because it's a wholly different kettle of fish.

*********

[Sam Wiley]

Oh, and I wrote a post a while back, comparing Thor's accoutrements, hammer, belt, et al. to body mechanics for the martial arts.

That's probably one of the reasons many people here think I'm on drugs. But I swear that you can find parallels to techniques and methods in your art in old myths such as these. I mean, we are talking about war gods, after all.

*********

[Ryu]

LOL!

Hold on, I'm running to the extreme end of the issue! *pant pant* ****, no solution!

Hold on I got it!! I'm gonna run to the complete opposite extreme of the issue! ....... *pant pant* ****...no solution here either.

UNLESS! Hold on, I'm gonna run to the original extreme end of the issue!
...............


It's a fun day today.
;)

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Arioch7]

Personally, I like the Masonic symbols on the back of the dollar bill. I think it is cool! :D

Also, George Washington freed all of his slaves when his wife died.

Furthermore, western civilization is the first country to abolish slavery. It is still practiced in many countries throughout the world.

Now, about Omega's original point in that capitalism is about fooling people and eventually wake up.

I get the feeling that you prefer some sort of socialist system? So, in this capitalistic system I control my own resources but you want me to relinquish my work so the STATE can have it?

This is what the founding fathers were afraid of... some people just CANT accept freedom, they have to be subjects of something. That side is gaining ground but I will be long dead before I have to deal with being societies "servant".

Look man, I own my own business and I do not oppress ANYONE. Everything I make is MINE, I earned it. The more profit I make, the more taxes I pay. Thats the way I like it.

We have the greatest society that has ever existed on this planet, and you are posting these things that are just... kind of weird.
I mean this is what you posted:

"The fact is that most people are without the slightest inkling as to what the true world dynamics are and always have been. It use to be about "Divine Right of Kings", and now the only difference is the titles, and the fact that most CEOs and the like are much richer and more powerful than many kings past and present."

So this makes me royalty? I have my own business AND I invest in the stock market. I am a PRINCE AMONG MEN!!! :D

Of course, I was going to open a consulting business in a few years... should I not do this because it is EVIL? LOL! Your classic man!

(Should I make it Lord Arioch? Duke Arioch? Decisions decisions!)

[CD Lee]

>Cd Lee, you should be proud of america, they lost to poor rice-cultivating dudes, they bombed hiroshima (yay for the nuclear bomb huh>?) first on the moon, who was first in space? hum..lets see, USSR, i bet they dont teach you that at school. usa won't win this war.

We bombed Hiroshema becauce they fu&&iin killed our people in a procactive Japanese attack on inocent lives. Yeah, we funkin kicked ass. You would get the same...do something to Amercia and see. Go ahead chicken sh1t. You talk very big.

We are funkin boming the shet out of those who approve of taking incocent lives...die mother funkers. You certainly will.

Yes the Soviets were the first into space, and they do teach that in school, but we were the first on the MOON dumb fuch. What is your funkin point?

We 'WILL' win. Loser, we already have won.

Get off your @ss and so something %ucker. You will die too. C'mon and join the party.

I travel every week. Get on my plane p#ssy, and hijack it, and see if I don't kick your little p&ssy @ss.

What is your point???

[Kristoffer]

It wouldn't matter if our next king would be an ass-hole :D (although I would laugh as hell) why? Becouse our king has NO what soever power in politics. nada. zero. etc...
About that our goverment choses where we live? I have no ******* idea what the hell u are talking about :D but its kinda amusing to me what u think SWEDEN is.. I mean,, if cant even spell the name sweden right. :rolleyes: well go figure. Check your facts before writing any of that crap man..


I havnt really read in detail the posts after mine because it seems like a waist of my time. Kung Lek is still an ignorant ******* who is to scared of real confrontations. Whats tha matter :confused: to scared to admitt u made an error? But hey! if its ok to say to members that basicly they are idiots who should sit down and shut up... I can say the same to YOU u son of a *****. grow up.

to the rest of this thread, i dont care anymore. I hope u wipe out those terrorists soon.. because this with the bacteria in postcards is really freakking me out here. go in peace, everyone :(

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[SevenStar]

Now that you're back I have a chance to ask you - You seem to have alot of knowledge about satan, and I remember you once had a quote from aleister crowley as your sig. Does the subject just interest you or something?

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Ryu]

....... *pant pant* ........*pant*

Hold on...... I'm almost there.... I'm running to the opposite extreme again. The solution should be here this time!

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Merryprankster]

Ryu,

Can I join you? I love pointless exertion!!!

We have to watch out for all those common-sense, reasonable bumps in the middle though. I don't know why they make real solutions so bumpy!!!

[CD Lee]

Sorry for my last post. I must have been feeling really good when I posted that last night. Geez. :eek:

[Ryu]

MerryPrankster,
Come on aboard! The more the merrier!
Don't worry, we won't have to deal with that common-sense, looking at a problem from many angles stuff... yech! Onward to the opposite extreme!

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[KC Elbows]

I'm somewhat unclear on some of the points in which people are referring to other people's info as revisionist history. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I just am not sure, some of the refutations are coming without specific references to what they are refuting. My concern is that some seem to think it is unpatriotic to refuse to fall into "founding father worship". I think the founding fathers acheived a lot of great things, but many more things have been achieved since, and will be achieved yet. We don't have to live in their shadow.

On to the other extreme(I can see why Ryu is exhausted), naming acts that the US has taken as evidence of the US evil imperialist ways only works if you can show those acts within the larger historical context, and there is not a lot of that happening here. Also, while I must (shamefully) admit that I haven't read many of the works being discussed on this thread, one cannot walk around saying "I don't need them, my thoughts are UNIQUE." How do you know, if you've not studied the thoughts of others on the same topic? How do you know that your thoughts weren't thought many times before, if you don't do the research?

Boy, people sure love to hate the liberals and hollywood types. Kinda ironic that the last effective leader the conservatives had was an actor, don't you think? :p

[Ryu]

He was history's greatest nightmare!! :mad:


:D
;)

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Kiasyd]

Wow! I thought that I was the only one who correlated norse war gods myths to kung fu! :D

Also, on the occult subject: Someone here mentioned also Shub-Niggurath as a demon, but I think that is just plain fiction, developed by HP Lovecraft. I don't think it is from "real" myths. On the other had, sam's posts are great, awesome sources you have ;)

-- Kiasyd

[Silumkid]

Cd Lee, you should be proud of america, they lost to poor rice-cultivating dudes, they bombed hiroshima (yay for the nuclear bomb huh>?) first on the moon, who was first in space? hum..lets see, USSR, i bet they dont teach you that at school. usa won't win this war.

America lost to poor rice-cultivating dudes? Is this supposed to be a reference to Vietnam, because if it is you are showing a lack of understanding. Vietnam was not a military loss, only a political one.

Yes, America nuked Hiroshima because of outright aggression enacted upon us when we had already declared non-involvement in the war. Yes, YAY for the nuclear bomb...it singularly ended that war. No war = good to you, right? You haven't proven your point yet...

America was indeed first on the moon. That means that we surpassed the USSR. Sounds like achievement to me.

America won't win this war? That remains to be seen, but so far, it's looking good. If America was so evil and oppressive, why isn't this war over yet? After all, YAY for the nuclear bomb! It would only take one or two to clear a country the size of Texas. Or was that not taught in your school

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[Sam Wiley]

Seven Star,
Just let me tell you...the rabbit hole is deep, real deep. ;)

HP Lovecraft's stories go beyond mere fiction. His accounts of rituals are pretty accurate. Either he had first-hand knowledge of some system or rituals, or a far too vivid an imagination. We could sit and talk all night long about the history of the name Shub Niggurath, but it does not matter. You see, at least in my opinion, all gods were fictional characters at one time. Yahweh may be thought of as real now, but a couple thousand years ago, he was popular fiction as well. In any case, he uses this particular name for a particular aspect of the universe.

Whatever the origin of Lovecraft's demon's names, the concept of "wrong geometry" was not invented by him. The Nazis were big fans of magical rituals, and experimented with melding modern technology and emotional and mental medical theories with ancient ritual. In fact, some of the language Lovecraft used to describe things in his stories is mirrored in litanies used in Nazi ritual. These litanies also mention demons and stuff as if they were influenced by Lovecraft's stories, though written long before. So whatever the origins, these stories contain some common element with real systems of magic and religion. I've just grown accustomed to thinking in terms of Lovecraft's pantheon, as I am a big fan of his, as well as his greatest imitator, Stephen King.

Kiasyd,
Myths of the Norsemen by HA Guerber is a bit dry, but excellent for reference. Prof. Jesse L. Byock's translation of Saga of the Volsungs is superb. I would also recommend Patricia Terry's Poems of the Elder Edda. Another great story you might want to look into is the full text of Beowulf. There is a new bilingual translation out by Seamus Heaney that is hailed by critics, but there are several problems with his translation, such as his departure from Germanic and English influenced language and grammar in several key points in favor of Latin influenced, which sometimes bogs down the story a bit, and in one part completely halts it. While his translation is meant to be poetic, and he succeeds brilliantly in some places, such as "fate goes ever on as fate must," he makes one nearly unforgivable error in translating a tear jerking line "it is always better to avenge dear ones than to indulge in mourning" when I feel this line sounds better as "better to avenge fallen friends than to mourn." The original clearly uses the word "freond." I mean, putting "avenge fallen friends" together in the line keeps to the rhyme schemes used by the Vikings and others, so why bother deviating from it? Whatever, anyway, it's still a good book.

*********

[Kiasyd]

Thanks for the norse references, surely I'll check them! :)

Now, about Lovecraft, I'm also a fan, as well as Stephen King's and Clive Barker's :)

When I said that Lovecraft was "fiction", I didn't expressed myself very well (english is not my natural language :( ), I meant that he didn't based his work in a single mithology, instead, he was inspired by some ancient cultures, and developed his own unique mythos, as all the ancient deities were once "developed" :)

I think that you can correct me on this, but he inspired a lot on the babylonian pantheon, am I right? And also, I am aware, as you said, that all the "abyssal / corruption / madness" idea, of an ancient evil wasn't introduced by Lovecraft, but was he "recalled" it. A concept much more interesting than the old maniqueist idea of Good X Evil.

-- Kiasyd

[Kristoffer]

marvel rules! DC sucks!! :p

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[Sam Wiley]

Kiasyd,
Looking closely at Lovecraft's work, it definitely seems to be influenced by several different religious systems. For instance, Shub Niggurath is sometimes called "the black goat of the woods with a thousand young," and sometimes he is called the "ram of the sun." Seems to me that this character is definitely influenced by Greek and Roman mythology, perhaps tales of Apollo, Bacchus, Pan, etc. However, the black goat is found in several other religions as well. For instance, the sacrificial scapegoat from Judaism, and the Knights Templar of France worshipped a black goat named Baphomet. Being a scholar, as well as a student of history, Lovecraft would have been familiar with the Greek and Roman myths most definitely, more than likely have been aware of the scapegoat, and may very well have even known about the specific charges levelled against the Knights Templar at their trial. And I am sure that since the author of the Necronomicon was an Arab, he knew that there is a demon named Kudalu in the Koran, and that quite possibly this demon was the basis for Cthulhu. There are even more cases than these, though.

Much of what we find in his stories also appears to have been influenced by at least Egyptian myths, so it is also possible that he had researched some of the Babylonian gods as well. He was, after all, trying to create a system of religion that supposedly went back ****her than any of those we know. And given that the supposed author of the Necronomicon was Arabian, Abdul Alhazred, I'm quite sure he researched everything he could about that whole section of the world.

Lovecraft's gods and demons, though, never fit into the good vs. evil idea. While they were certainly powerful, and sometimes at odds with each others plans or mankind's, even the "evil" ones sometimes took on the role of teacher for man. Remember that the Mi-Go claimed that they wanted to extract man's brains to take them on journeys across the universe and teach them new things.

In any case, we see a lot of people today influenced by Lovecraft and his stories. Stephen King's Jerusalem's Lot and The Mist. Clive Barker's Rawhead Rex and The Hellbound Heart. A little feature film called The Relic. And at least one of the Star Wars novels titled I, Jedi, in which Michael Stackpole (at least I think that's the author's name, I gave this book to a friend when I finished it) writes about carvings on the wall of a Sith temple on the planet on which Luke Skywalker chooses to re-establish the Jedi temple, reminiscent of the chapter in At the Mountains of Madness where the explorers find carvings on the wall of the building.

First we had Cthulhu for President buttons, now we have people telling census takers that they practice the Jedi religion...what's next? The establishment of an actual church dedicated to the worship of the Ancient Ones?

Oh, and by the way, Kristoffer, there is a new comic company out called CrossGen that makes Marvel look like childish scribblings in terms of artwork and even, I am told, storylines. I've seen some of the art, and I can tell you that these people are better than anything I have seen come out of Marvel in a long time. And while I'm on the subject of comics...can someone please tell me what the Hell is going on with Marvel? What's with all this manga crap and these horribly written stories to go along with them in the "ultimate this and that" titles? What drivel! Reminds me of that whole pile of crap Batman Beyond.

*********

[omegapoint]

How many of you closet fascists that claim to be conservative Americans have any real education? I think I'll let you geniuses argue about your voluminous amounts of erroneus info.

How many of you have served your country in the Armed Forces? How dare some pansy-assed loser call me unpatriotic! 95% of you fools don't have a clue and don't have the proper intellectual foundation and mental architecture to begin to comprehend what I'm saying. If what I'm saying is so Status Quo, then why don't we learn these things in school?

If fraternal orders are so instrumental in making good men better, then why don't they make the Demolay Society or other masonic group(s) a part of H.S. extracurricular activities and clubs? Why are these fools so secretive? If they have the answer give every person a chance to make themselves "better" and eventually the "NEW WORLD".

I know reality, I don't guess at it. I'm not a Master of Assumption, I just state it as it is! You *******sses believe what you want about our system, and how it's infallible, pseudo-Utopian (is that an oxymoron?), and not subject to evolution like everything else in reality. The fact is the new Sovereign is, like the Hippies use to say, the Corporate Entitiy, and the serfs and peasants are the common working person who owns NOTHING. I don't know about you but the "Naked Truth" is all that I need. As for this argument that if we are responsible, selfless capitalists that makes us Socialist. I say if that's how you wanna label it then so be it. We will be a Socialist-FreeMarket country soon enough. All things influence one-another. We would never revert to anything more oppressive than this 200+ year system of government. More freedom is what people like me want, not continuous control and contradiction!

Anyway how the hell can you tell me that Bush or Ford or Reagan or any of these privileged characters are smart enough and diverse enough to lead real intelligent and above-average intelligent folks?

Since when did the qualifications for leader of the free-world include mediocrity-to-the-extreme, as one of the traits? Maybe that's 'cause our government ain't running ****tt! I mean you have terrorists with twice the intelligence quotient of any president (other than Carter and Jefferson), using our own materials and human resources against us. How the hell you gonna know your enemy when you don't even know where Madagascar is? How does being you a lawyer or businessman equate to "leader"? It's just ridiculous and I'm glad everyone likes to be played, but I'm not with you. I'm a real American who knows the potential of the people of this country to make it what it will eventually be.

Think about it, They got families to fight each other in our Civil War, they can convince you sheep of anything. Like using 2 nuclear weapons on a broken country wasn't overkill!

So CD or whatever your redneck nom-de-guerre is, I live in Texas too, maybe we can get together and school each other on our opinions, After that we can train and I can School you again. It's all Satanic in disguise; people of God would never persecute someone because of their lack of money, opportunity or color of skin. Beleieve what you want, but you're wrong!

In the meantime check out "Behold A Pale Horse" by William Cooper. Some of it is iffy, but it'll give people like Ryu a new perspective on things... Later.

BTW the revolution begun long ago. It just takes time for things to snowball. So step-off or get stepped-on!!! God bless America, and its truly righteous citizens.....

If Satan is meant to represent the anthropomorphic incarnation of evil then wouldn't lying (a negative act) be his forte? I don't think you can credit fabrication and omission with Providence!

[Kung Lek]

well, i can surmise at least that you are not a republican.
but neither am I.
it can be said that in the modern world the leaders are mostly figureheads for the ideals they serve.
there hasn't been a tarlamagne, tamujin or Ramses for a long long time.
i don't buy the whole "shadow government" thing, people just are not that capable of keeping a secret. Impossible to keep a secret if more than one person knows!
you are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist o-point and the revolution you speak of is more of an apple rotting from the core than a righteous ideal.
as for the use of nuclear weapons, it is a terrible thing, but it has happened with any luck it won't fall so far back into the collective memory that it happens again, but they do exist, and if a weapon exists, it really is only a matter of time before someone uses it. with any further luck, the nukes will be rusted heaps of junk by the time that happens (if many of them aren't already) after all, they do represent a deterrent.

I personally do think that as a species we are growing and we will grow to our apex and maintain to the next plateau provided we don't fall prey to our worst adversary, ourselves.

but in the case of those countries that aren't getting on board, IE: Totalitarian regimes such as the Taliban et al, I think it was Nitzcshe who said "If something is already falling, should not one help by pushing?"

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Kiasyd]

About Stephen King's "Lovecraftian" work, there is a short history, on a book called "Skelleton Crew", that's very good. I don't remember the short history title. This tale isn't just inpired by Lovecraft mythos, it is written in Lovecraft mythos. Very nice! :)

Also, have you read Neil Gaiman's Sandman? Awesome work, in my opinion :D

-- Kiasyd

[scotty1]

**I personally do think that as a species we are growing and we will grow to our apex and maintain to the next plateau provided we don't fall prey to our worst adversary, ourselves.**

I don't think we have ever been closer to wiping ourselves out. Except a couple of occasions (Cuban missile crisis etc.) Except now it won't be the culmination of a stand-off. It'll be some fu**er putting it through someones letterbox.
Someone on another forum said " A good fighter will cover a powerful cross with a feinted jab.
If Anthrax is the jab, when's the cross coming?"
Every now and then (it seems to me) the world goes through some kind of major change. Could be now - hasn't anybody felt over the last few years like there's some kind of build up happening? I don't know, just a weird feeling I get.

Maybe I'm paranoid. :confused:

[KC Elbows]

Scotty, I tend to agree with you. Henry Miller once commented on getting that sort of feeling in Greece just before WWII broke out. Kinda scary.

For those who cannot accept anyone who hasn't served as patriotic, I don't agree with that statement. Timothy McVeigh served, Lee Harvey Oswald served. I'm not equating all those who served our country with those two, but I am pointing out that serving does not make one patriotic, one makes themselves a patriot.

[Terry Oi Punk]

Hello! I happened to sort of passed by your topic and I think it's not bad at all to write something...


All power corrupts!!!

No WAR but CLASS WAR!!!
(has anyone seen this kind of call done by anarcho punks?)

Food not BOMBS!!!

The problem with U.S.A is that hideously as anation it only wants to dominate the world!hah!hah! it's so pathetic... thirld world countries like mine where people are dying of starvation and poverty or maybe to this general thing which is nonetheless but OPPRESSION!!!

But, but and but - GLOBALIZATION is a worser enemy.

Gotta' go!!!

I'd like to discuss more things with you but this hacked account is running out of MONEY!!!

Sorry to those whom I offend, I'll probably tell you more about these things!!!

Lastly, one thing is for sure... we have to SMASH SEXISM,RACISM,CAPITALISM as source of exploitation!!!

Ciao,
Terry Oi Punk (mAkInG pUnK a ThReAt AgAiN!!!)

[Terry Oi Punk]

Hi! I just want to share my personal sentiments... :)

got no flag, no race, I don't belong to this place!

No rulers, no country and yet they won't help me!!!

No flag, No race, No Rulers, No country!!!

have a nice day!!!

Cheers,

Terry

[Budokan]

People get the government they deserve. If you don't like the way you're oppressed and sh*t upon in your islands then change the government--don't blame the rest of the world though, for your misery.

I would speak more about this, but I couldn't glean much rational thought from your polemical statements.

K. Mark Hoover

[Kiasyd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
People get the government they deserve. If you don't like the way you're oppressed and sh*t upon in your islands then change the government--don't blame the rest of the world though, for your misery
[/quote]

Sometimes, this is not as simple as "change the government"... Puting in these terms, IRA is trying to change their government, for instance.

-- Kiasyd

[Merryprankster]

Budokan's point is that when people get tired enough of a system, they will change it AT ALL COSTS. The IRA hasn't succeeded, because it isn't a mass movement. If the entire population of Northern Ireland suddenly decided that they wanted the British out, then it would be a done deal, because the rest of Britain wouldn't waste the resources to create martial law for all eternity. The psychology of being in a country where the majority of the population will attack you, using guerrilla/terrorist methods is exhausting. You have to be on full alert all the time because if you aren't, you're dead. You'd be a nervous wreck 24-7 after a week of this, if you managed to survive that long. To those of you that say "animals do this all the time," that's crap. All nature has hidey holes and comfort spots to rest and recoup.

Anyway, back to the original point; Viet Nam did this to the US. The Viet Cong were communist, true, but Viet Nam had been in a struggle for YEARS to become an independent nation. They wanted foreigners to stop meddling in their government. Because of this, Ho Chi Minh was seen as a freedom fighter, not so much as a "communist." Most Vietnamese viewed his movement as nationalistic, vice ideological. The Viet Cong were fighing for an independent Vietnam, not necessarily communism. The psychological damage to US troops there was staggering because they didn't know whether the smiling Vietnamese face had a bowl of rice or a grenade. They lived in constant fear, because they were perpetually off balance. It's a total mind-****.

Omega, I am in the Coast Guard and have been wearing the uniform for 9 years. What was your MOS in the Air Force?

[MoQ]

Babes in the woods, all of ya... arguing about BS...

ANY of you, look behind the Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Affairs, FEMA(for crissakes)! Look at the Skull and Bones, the Rothschilds and NEVER turn your back on Britain.

Everyone acts as though they are bored by the endless string of crimes by the CIA, ATF, DEA and FBI. Jeez, lets give'em all their own TV show. "Screw the OTHER GUY, I'm looking out for #1"... Ahhh, now i feel better...

We are being set up. First it may be globalization, but there may need to be dramatic population reduction before that goes over well. They need all our guns so they can arm the IRS and Departmant of Fish and Wildlife.

You can "fight it" but you will be another "suicide" or freak accident reported in their "newpapers"(there is no free press, don't be silly). The suspension of the problematic Constitution is all ready. Prisons and camps all set and ready to receive "dissidents". Let's do a Feasability Study...

Most of you will sell out immediately and in fact volunteer daily to believe anything you're spoonfed. You MAY be of value for a time and you can stay off the early lists by simply following our fine examples... Look at these posts. The very ones that need to be told are so caught up that they might as well be agents for the enemy.

Politics is a game and behind it all is the $$$.
YES, it IS a "pyramid" and no one person or group knows what the Illumined Eye is up to, but in GENERAL, look at the Bilderberg group and get ahold of some of their reports.

Population control is the main game. Darwin's credited with ideas stolen from Malthus, who heavily influenced the Nazi's experiments and THOSE guys were put on a boat to the US by the Vatican, while the US was dividing up Germany with our buddy Stalin.

Hey at least there are fewer peeps we don't like. That means more for us right??? Soon all but the Worlds Best Asskissers will be virtually useless. "I'll do anything to keep my government job, DIE FARMER!" It's good to be on the winning side, hmmm?

Governments have always killed 5X their own people than wars anyway...

[Merryprankster]

Killed 5X their own vice wars?

Maybe if you factor Stalin into the mix and Mao and Hitler. Toss out those three outliers and I do believe you would be smoking crack.

RYU?! WHERE ARE YOU? I've been running from one end to the other and can't find you anywhere. HELP!!!

[CD Lee]

Maybe your martial arts are better than my opinion of your politics. Speaking of mental architecture, and the ability to think. Hmmm. I place you near the bottom, due to your lack of ability to abstractly anylize the information you have read.

You are a conspiricy man. The devil is behind every bush, in the all seeing eye, wherever. Have you ever wondered why, when all the signs are there for educated people in free countries to see, that everybody does not believe in conspiricy theories?

1. They are in on the conspiricy.
2. They process and understand information differently, and do not beleive in consiracy theories.
3. They are uneducated or stupid.

Why do I question your mental architechture? Simple. You have a lot of facts and information but you lack the 'architecture' to put it all together. That is most likely due to your 'self-percieved' ability to think outside the box from most 'ignornant' people. However, in the spirit of abstract thought, and analysis of the facts, you unkowingly think inside the confines of a very small box. The box of conpiritors. The fantastic. Which is extreemly creative, but just so happens to have faulty architecture.

You sound like a guy who reads Chick publications and books by Hyssop

[KC Elbows]

MoQ, thanks for making us all wiser, so that we can all rebel and follow...who? Sorry dude, but I've researched all those arguments, and while I agree that a lot of bad stuff occurs because of greed, I don't think the evidence places the blame for this on any of the fraternal orders. Its humans. There's always some who say "The rulers are evil!" whether they really are or not, and oftentimes a great movement starts that overwhelms the status quo only to leave the followers to realize that the rebel leaders are just as bad or worse than the leaders they deposed.

As for the Illuminati, bull. Powerful people out for more power work to make their own power, and don't let rivals know what they are up to, so no conspiracy of the level people like to talk about could hold together for centuries, or at least is highly unlikely to.

On the other hand(I'll run both sides for a minute here):
There is a case for questioning the freedom of the modern American press. Sure anything can be reported, but what do the newswires choose to run, and thus the stations in general? I really don't think a watergate scandal could happen nowadays, and Clinton's scandals don't really count, as the press really only repeated what conservatives repeated, and the conservatives couldn't really get enough to impeach, mostly because most of the info was about on a par factually with Illuminatus theories. Not saying Clinton was an angel, just that the investigation was pure amatuer hour.

[MoQ]

No one mentioned illuminati, fraternal orders, or even shapeshifting "alien(?)" reptoids... :eek:

I am glad that you've "researched" the Trilateral Commission and found no high ranking corporate officials doing any "conspiring"...

It makes me feel alot better that there's no conspiracy and no elitist groups pooling power. Maybe even no connections between oil interests and probs in the mid East. Now we have your assurance we can all relax...

You COULD think the CFR is on the up and up, there are no Bilderbergers(and David Rockefeller isn't the friggin' DEBBLE). You may even believe that FEMA is thus empowered for our greater good, HAARP is an innocent little Tesla experiment and the CIA has given up on MKII Ultra or even has pulled out of drug trafficking...

[This message was edited by MoQ on 10-24-01 at 02:38 PM.]

[KC Elbows]

I didn't say that groups didn't pool their power in corrupt ways. What I dispute is the idea of a highly organized conspiracy covering centuries that is head by ANY of the organizations you've already mentioned. Real life isn't that neat and clean.

[MoQ]

Why so boldly dispute a topic that no one mentioned?

I guess I feel that there IS a consistency in human wickedness and it DOES seem to be abit of a RELAY over the years... perhaps I insinuated that these ideas have been cultivated and passed to successive generations...

...But you've really got me thinking now...

[This message was edited by MoQ on 10-24-01 at 02:51 PM.]

[KC Elbows]

The premise of your argument seems to be the dominance of particular groups with concrete plans that go completely unopposed and wholeheartedly supported by the vast majority. The world doesn't work out that way. While I find that I misspoke earlier regarding fraternal orders(I did not mean to absolve them of ALL guilt, I meant to say that they were not as responsible as conspiracy theory makes them sound), I still hold that the best laid plans often go astray, usually because those who hold the plans can't get along.
In any case, I was disputing the basis for your assertions, not your assertions.

[KC Elbows]

Just so you know, I don't completely disagree with you. Its just that I've known a lot of the people who benefit from the conspiracy mindset, and there is no way in hell that I'd want them running things instead of what we've got. I'm not saying that what we've got couldn't use some serious improvement.

[KC Elbows]

I agree in some ways. A lot of people use the American Dream as an excuse for all the wrong things. However, I know many people who beleive in an American Dream that is a noble dream, and there are people who work to achieve it in the world around them. I think the fault lies not with the dream, but the dreamer.

Anyway, glad we could discuss this. I've gotta go to practice, so have a good night.

[Arioch7]

Ok, I HAVE an education and I have also served in the armed forces.

BTW, Sam... as an avid H.P. Lovecraft fan, I like what your posting! Precious.

This next section is devoted to critics of the Republic.

The Founding Fathers acheived the first Government that was run BY the people. I understand that you want to go back to days when you were part of a SYSTEM.

Well, I dont know why you all refused to comment on my sarcastic thread but I believe it is pertinent. It probably is my ego, LOL!

When capitalists like myself say that our system is historically best, the other side comments that the alternitves have not been tried with enough CONVICTION.

I LIKE the fact that I rise and fall on my own fortunes. What is your beef? If I get hurt, I get NOTHING. If my employees get hurt, they are very well off. What is the frickin' problem?

What would my detractors have me do differently?

BTW, its Lord Arioch to you! :D

[This message was edited by Arioch7 on 10-24-01 at 05:00 PM.]

[This message was edited by Arioch7 on 10-24-01 at 05:03 PM.]

[MoQ]

KC- sorry but I inadvertantly deleted my post(as I most often do)... The problem may not be that the "dream" is comprised of literally INSERTED red herring images meant to in effect "program" an individual, but that few people really want to wake.
If everyone thinks they are already "free", then any doubt is treated as "negative"... BUT, the term "negative" connotates an accepted "positive" that is being negated.
I am a "patriot" in a real Patrick Henry kina way and I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS BS going on today is CONSTITUTIONAL and I KNOW THESE SELFISH *******S ARE TRYIN' TO RULE THE FRIGGIN' WORLD AND THIS TIME AROUND THEY MAY PULL IT OFF! Ya'll gotta wake up or each one of us will die alone fighting some Fed agency in defense of our land, family, possessions or person. You'll all laugh to yourself about the "freaks" until it's YOUR TURN...

... and SERIOUSLY, what are THESE guys up to?
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8425/TRILAT.HTM

[Arioch7]

MoQ, I was reading your post. I would like you to elaborate on a few things.

I do not think I am FREE, I see the results of control everywhere.

Take this example. I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt... now in Massachusetts we have a law that says you have to wear a seatbelt. I always wore it ANYWAY.

Now, since the Supreme Court ruled that the Police could arrest you for NOTHING! Then hold you in jail while they clean everything up and dismiss you if they are wrong(The SUPREME COURT gave them this right this very year.)

So now I have state troopers making me wear my seatbelt at gunpoint... for the GOOD of society. Maybe for the good of insurance rates but NOT GOOD FOR THE FREEDOM OF THIS COUNTRIES CIVILIANS! Civilians who are the de facto rulers of this country... supposebly.

I know this is a small example and many of you might think I am overstating this point. However, if this happens with something so minor... what will happen in the future?

Will they declare rockclimbing ILLEGAL because of the many injuries and the damage they impose on society?

Will they make me wear a hat in the winter... LOL!:D

I am not having that... PERIOD!!!

[MoQ]

Arioch- America is supposed to be a republic but it's the $$$ manipulating the accursed democracy that is to be our undoing.
We *****ed too much about the separation of church and state, then for some stupid dang reason we neglected some commerce and state barriers and soon the governments and the corporations will have a Big Deal(with the banks that have loansharked everyfukkinbody) and as half of protestants go back to a New Catholic Church, ... well, it's a Beautiful World(or else).

I am not talking about some alien DNA spliced hybrid Hitlerian Rothschild shapeshifting reptilian *******-Rockefeller Satanist Disney Execs, tortural children and abusing CIA programmed sexslaves, buying all technologically available social advertizing manipulation and Lone Gunman Therapy made possible by the 3rd Reich research in mind control and then reporting back to a central committee of 4th dimensional reptile Watchers that were banished and now are BACK!!!
I don't need to here.
I'm just saying that you owe it to yourself, your family and everyone you know, to keep an eye on this "New World Order" stuff. There's something rotten the state of...

[Arioch7]

Believe it or not, I think i know what you are saying.

I have to retire but I will continue this post when I get up!

[Sam Wiley]

Actually, no, I have not read any of Gaiman's work. I have heard it is very good, though. I read several books at once, trying to fit in as much as possible, but I can't get to all of them. Right now I am reading Black Elk Speaks and Seven Arrows, kind of heavy reading I know, but beautiful. I'm one of those guys with too many irons in the fire. Oh, and I believe the story you are referring to is actually <.i>Jerusalem's Lot[/i], the one I was talking about above. It is most definitely written in Lovecraft's universe. However, no one can really complain, as HPL himself encouraged others to write stories about the world he invented.

That remoinds me...anyone know where I can get a cpoy of The Hounds of Tindalos? I haven't been able to find a copy and I have been looking for a long time now. It was written by Frank Belknap Long.

*********

[Kiasyd]

No, I don't think it is Jerusalem's Lot, that is the tale about the "creatures" that live between the walls of the old house, it's another one, more "Chutuluish" :)

I'll find the name of this tale, and post it here later.

About "the Hound of Tindalos", I'm afraid I cannot help you... As I live in Brazil, sometimes is difficult to find copies of usual books :P

-- Kiasyd

[Kiasyd]

I think I said that the short story I mentioned is in another book, "Nightmares and Dreamscapes", now I don't remember if the tale is "Crouch End" or "the House on Maple Street".

I can check this tonight, when I get home :)

BTW, Tell me later if "Black Elk Speaks" and "Seven Arrows" are good as they sound... I'm considering reading these sometime ;)

-- Kiasyd

[Sam Wiley]

Yog Sothoth is summoned with the book, Mysteries of the worm in Jerusalem's Lot. But, I think it does begin with things living inside the walls. Anyway, I haven't read Nightmares and Dreamscapes yet. Yet another one on my long long waiting list. And I'll let you know about those two books when I'm finished with them.

*********

[KC Elbows]

Did you guys like the movie "In the Moth of Madness"?

Take 2:
Did you guys like the movie "In the Mouth of Madness"? I thought it was one of the better attempts at Lovecraft type horror in film.

I know, I could have just fixed my typo, but I liked the concept of the Moth of Madness. Lovercraft meets Burroughs, barring the existence of a huge bug zapper.

[Kung Lek]

From Beyond, was waaaaaaayyyyyyy freaky.

Oh that unholy trio, what were they thinking? hee hee hee. :D

Sam, you a member of any "lodge" ;) or just a "free" thinker?

By the way, has anyone played Pokethulu yet? Bwahahahahahaha, priceless!

(insert secret handshake here)
peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[omegapoint]

MP: You know the AeroForce. They like to feel as though they are separate from the rest of the military. Airmen are special. Yeah, right. In the Farce it's called an AFSC (AF Specialty Code). I was a Pararescuemen, PJ, Pararescue Operator, whatever you wanna call it. It's kinda' like a rescue swimmer on 'roids! All I got out of it was continuous training and my Paramedics certification. I hated jumping (fast-roping and parachuting), but loved diving and such. Learning how to blow things up and handling the various 'toys' was cool though. I shoulda' did Combat Control. Ever heard of THEM Watchman? Anyways the military sux, although I have true empathy for the institutionalized slaves we call soldiers and such!

'Lek: You just had to use that 'Apex' word. Trikkky, trikkky, trikkky... Hahahaha!

Later theorists'...

[MoQ]

Ahh, Yog-Sothoth... probably being summoned by embedded subcodes in our Microsoft programs all day long...

The Old Ones were and will be again! World Tour begins soon! Dates to be announced!

Lovecraft really showed us some things, including a very poignant "Don't follow me, I'm lost" message, in his work. The conveyance of abject "dread of the unknown", perhaps his greatest skill, attempted to give a face to the faceless horror and references to his ideas are ubiquitous, now that fear has gone hi-tech and as always proves such a useful psych tool.

Too bad the creative guys spend so much time hyperdetailing carvivorous evil. Nihilism isn't all that creative when you think about it... Or maybe DON'T THINK, we could just get ugly and join up with'em eh? Haha, the toughest of us stumbing about pathetically like the little birdie in Dr. Seuss' "Are You My Mother?"

Makes me want to go to Disney World for programming, or maybe that's just the nanobots in my Lucky Charms... ;)


"Even though I'm feeling good, something tells me I better activate my Prayer Capsule!"

[Seppukku]

Since this topic heading seemed apt for my subject, and I don't want to create another political thread, I'll just hijack this one:

So, it's pretty clear that all of the candidates for both parties believe that Ronald Reagan was the best president in history, and they're pretty much right.

So, who do you think best espouses Reagan's ideals?

And, why don't we just bring the old codger back for another term in office? We have the cloning technology, don't we? And I hear he froze some of his semen some years back......

Reagan '08? Reagan forever?

BTW, I love Ronald Reagan like I love tacos.

[Mano Mano]

Since this topic heading seemed apt for my subject, and I don't want to create another political thread, I'll just hijack this one:

So, it's pretty clear that all of the candidates for both parties believe that Ronald Reagan was the best president in history, and they're pretty much right.

So, who do you think best espouses Reagan's ideals?

And, why don't we just bring the old codger back for another term in office? We have the cloning technology, don't we? And I hear he froze some of his semen some years back......

Reagan '08? Reagan forever?

BTW, I love Ronald Reagan like I love tacos.Just like bringing this thread back there’s no point. what’s he going to do without Maggie Thatcher, she’s in no fit state to brow beat the Europeans in to submission with her hand bag for him anymore. :D

[Drake]

Actually, the best part about this thread's resurrection is that it proves that this crap has been going on here for a good chunk of the decade.

And to think people have the audacity to think that all of a sudden it's driving people off. Should've brought that up 7 years ago.

[David Jamieson]

Reagan was a blight. economically he was ok, but he shafted the middle class and the poor to make the rich richer, so if that's what a republican thinks is a great president, then, well, that's too bad.

pay for education and medicine, get the economy in order and stop dropping so much wasted tax dollars into the military industrial complex. It's pretty simple, but i guess the addiction to war is strong.

America needs a 12 step program to get off the roller coaster of meddling and destroying other countries for the sake of the roads to rome. Sure, many of these countries are backwards tribal scumwater holes, but if America was so great, it would have been working harder to help the world resolve it's issues instead of making them worse.

exploiting chinese and indian labour at the forfeiture of security and income at home is a perfect example of why not to vote for a republican. The military industrial complex status quo is another example of why not to vote for old schoolers. Strangleholding countries with debt they can't pay off at the interest rates is not good foreign policy. Putting standing armies into other peoples countries without conventional wisdoms blessing is folly.

oh, it could go on and on and on couldn't it.