Deadlift update...

[Samurai Jack]

Well I just finished my last workout and I'm sorry to say that I decided to go with a Russian Bear Deadlift protocol today instead of twenty reps straight. Instead I did 260lbs. for 3 sets of 5. I'm kind of wussing out on this, but rather than giving up completly, I thought I'd try some 'Bear lifts until I hit 320, then start a new cycle of 20 reppers from 260 up to 320. I guess it dosen't really matter as long is I keep adding weight to the bar and making progress toward my final goal of 320 X 20. For anyone who's considered it, 20 rep deadlifts make for a really tough workout. It's the toughest routine I've ever attempted.

[Chief Fox]

At the risk of sounding ignorant. What's a Bear Lift? Is it the 3 sets of 5 or is it another type of dead lift?

[Samurai Jack]

It's a lifting protocol addressed in Pavel Tsatsouline's Power to the People. Basically it's a way to combine volume training with powerlifting methods in order to get the best of both worlds. You do sets of 3-5 reps with heavy weights for between 3-10 sets. The idea is to simultaneously train for strength and hypertrophy.

[IronFist]

But it kind of limits endurance seeing as how you never exceed 5 reps, even tho the rests are pretty short.

[Chief Fox]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
It's a lifting protocol addressed in Pavel Tsatsouline's Power to the People. Basically it's a way to combine volume training with powerlifting methods in order to get the best of both worlds. You do sets of 3-5 reps with heavy weights for between 3-10 sets. The idea is to simultaneously train for strength and hypertrophy.

Nice! I've heard a lot fo talk about "Power to the people". I've been thinking about picking it up.

[Samurai Jack]

Ironfist:

Using the rest/pause method for the twenty reps, I was getting 15 seconds or so between reps for the twenty, so as I had said before, it was really more like twenty sets of singles anyway. I'd much rather work up to four sets of five with a thirty second pause between in order to ease my way in to doing a continuous set of twenty. That may be unrealistic though as even twenty sets of singles with brief rests between was much harder than a continuous set of twenty squats...

Chief Fox:

Really, I almost don't recommend buying the book unless you can get a used copy on amazon. It's a really fun book to read but it's way overpriced and the information could be provided here in a brief thread, if you're interested.

[Chief Fox]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Really, I almost don't recommend buying the book unless you can get a used copy on amazon. It's a really fun book to read but it's way overpriced and the information could be provided here in a brief thread, if you're interested.

I suspected as much based on the price of Dragondoor's Kettlebells. I'm going to stick with my CROSSFIT routine for now but I may have some more questions for you down the line if you don't mind. Thanks.:)

[Toby]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Really, I almost don't recommend buying the book unless you can get a used copy on amazon. It's a really fun book to read but it's way overpriced and the information could be provided here in a brief thread, if you're interested. Do a search. I've described the essence at least a couple of times. Others have too.

[Samurai Jack]

I finally picked up a copy of Stuart McRobert's "Beyond Brawn", wherin he details his method of performing twenty rep deadlifts. I already see where I've been going wrong and why the training has started to go sour on me. I'm still going for my goal of 320 X 20, but I'm going to start following his instructions to the letter, so my progress is going to slow, and take more time than I originally anticipated. I'll post again when something of interest happens.

Oh, and by the way, I've already put a 1/4 inch on both arms in the last month!

[fa_jing]

Forearms?


Yes, sometimes I hear that with a routine you should follow advice to the letter.

[Vash]

Originally Posted by Toby a long friggin time ago
(1) Take a few compound lifts. Pavel advises side press and deadlift. Lots (including me) do variations on bench, squat, deadlift and pullups. Not too many exercises per workout, though.

(2) For each exercise do a set of 4-6 reps at some nominal weight. If you know your 1RM, take something safe like 60-70% of it. Do another set of 4-6 reps at 90% of the previous set's weight. Rest at least 3min between sets/exercises to ensure ATP recovery.

(3) Next workout increase your 1st set by 5lb. The 2nd set is now 90% of the new weight.

(4) Increase each day by 5lb for a cycle. Cycles generally last 10 or so lift days for a basic linear cycle (increase every day). You can vary with step cycles, wave cycles, etc. I've done a wave that lasted 4 weeks and didn't mind it but the last couple of waves got a bit taxing.

(5) Never go to failure. If you fail at a lift, stop the cycle. Next cycle you know your limit so work it out so you finish around your limit (less, more, whatever you're aiming for). Otherwise, if you make the lift at the end of a cycle, start the next cycle 5lb heavier.

It was so good, I saved that bizzatch.

[Samurai Jack]

Okay I didn't want to do a complete set of before and after measurements because I wanted to surprise myself at the end of the cycle with some results. However, my bodyweight went up about 18 lbs. since 12/8/04, so I wanted to see how the weight was being distributed on my frame. Bear in mind that I had just completed a cutting cycle, so some of this weight gain is probably just bounce-back from switching to a mass cycle. I probably won't ever do a cutting cycle again since I hated what it did to my energy levels and athletic preformance. Here are my results:

12/8/04------1/10/05

Height: Before 5'11" After:5'11" Gain: 0

Weight: Before: 200 lbs. After: 218 lbs. Gain:18 lbs.

Left Forearm: Before: 12 3/4" After: 12 7/8" Gain: 1/8 "

R Forearm: Before: 13" After: 13 1/8 " Gain:1/8"

L Biceps: Before: 15 3/8" After: 15 3/4 " Gain: 1/2 "

R Biceps: Before: 15 1/2" After: 16 " Gain: 1/2"

Shoulders: Before: 51 1/2" After: 53 1/4" Gain: 1 3/4"

Chest: Before: 43" After: 42 1/2" Loss: -1/2 "

L Thigh: Before: 25" After: 25 3/4" Gain: 3/4"

R Thigh: Before: 25" After: 25 7/8" Gain: 7/8"

Neck: Before: 16" After: 16 1/4" Gain: 1/4"

Waist: Before: 38" After: 38 7/8" Gain: 7/8"

As you can see, I actually underestimated the inches gained on my arms (biceps) in my first post. Don't get all excited though and think that I'm trying to sell my new book or something. This isn't the first time in my life I've had a 16" arm. I'm mostly just gaining back muscle I lost over a four month cutting cycle.

Edit: **** I can't get the stupid chart to post correctly, third try:

Edit: Still unreadable, fourth try!

[norther practitioner]

Dude, you have some big arms and legs...

[Samurai Jack]

My forearms are big, but compared to the rest of my body my biceps look a little small.

[Chief Fox]

see how your mesurements measure up to the Grecian Ideal
http://www.sandowmuseum.com/ideal.html

[Samurai Jack]

Lol! Well I've exceeded everything by at least an inch. Unfortunately my waist is almost ten inches bigger around than a greek would have liked, but you can still just barely see my abs, so there's no way I could lose ten inches!

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I finally picked up a copy of Stuart McRobert's "Beyond Brawn", wherin he details his method of performing twenty rep deadlifts. I already see where I've been going wrong and why the training has started to go sour on me. I'm still going for my goal of 320 X 20, but I'm going to start following his instructions to the letter, so my progress is going to slow, and take more time than I originally anticipated. I'll post again when something of interest happens.


Hey so what are these instructions exactly? Or have they been posted before, and if so, what should I search for?

[IronFist]

Isn't it more about proportions than actual measurements?

To a degree, at least. I mean no one wants 32" biceps with a 60" waist, but that's the same proportion as 16" biceps with a 30" waist.

[Samurai Jack]

Yeah, the proportions I've read for the greek ideal is that biceps, neck and calves measure the same in inches. Waist is equal to 2X the above measurement. A 32" inch waist is very good for a person with a 16" biceps. Nobody, and I mean nobody has a 60" waist with a 32" arm unless they're obese. So basically the neck and calf measurement qualifies the waist measurement.

I'm sure the whole thing is relative, but isn't it interesting that back in the day, bodybuilders tried to match thier measurements in such a fashion to maintain proportion? Since this was the standard to shoot for before steroids, wouldn't it be a good one to aim for for the non-drug using strength trainee?

BTW, the measurements used on the calculator don't match you to the old time standard. The whole wrist measurement thing comes from the golden age and was used when they started linking bone structure to muscle mass potential.

[Samurai Jack]

Oh, and the instructions are contained within the bulk of a 495 page weight training encyclopedia. There's no way I can do it justice, but basically, if I was forced to summarize I'd say that I've got to slow down the progression to about 2 lbs. per week, and decrease the training frequency to once or twice a week on the deadlift, though I can train upper body two or three times if I like. This information is useless for you though unless you are exactly were I am in my strength gains and you are training using the identical program to me.

You can get Beyond Brawn used from Amazon.com for for between 10-15 dollars. It's by far one of the most useful iron game books I've seen. I'm glad I finally have a copy.

[Samurai Jack]

Alright, well here's the results from today's workout:

Deadlift 170 X 20
Military Press 145 X 7
Barbell Curl 70 X 20

As you can see, I cut way back on the Deadlifts and am going with the new progression standard set up in Beyond Brawn. My Barbell Curl turned out to be too light, so I'm going to jump up five pounds at a time until I start failing at my desired rep range. I really enjoyed the pump I got off of a set of twenty though.

I'm planning on doing the above abreviated workout 2 or 3 days a week. I'll put five pounds a week on my deadlift until I hit 320 X 20.

[Toby]

Prefer pull ups to barbell curls. 20 reps might be a bit much though, esp. after DLing.

[Samurai Jack]

I broke a P.R. on Military Press yesterday... 145 X 8. I know it's not all that great for the big guys, but it's taken me two weeks to get that last rep (I started at 145 X 7).

I'm very pleased to report that I'm still on the 20-rep deadlift program. I am experiencing steady progress on this program and it's starting to feel easier. I've abreviated the workout to the following:

Deadlift (for 20 reps, static hold on 20th rep to grip failure)
Military Press (to failure, up the weight @ 10 reps)
Barbell curl (failure, up the weight @ 15 reps)

I'm doing the Deadlifts twice per week until I get to 230 X 20. Then inserting an extra rest day or to ensure continued progress. I do the upper body stuff 1 x per week. I had to cut back because I stopped progressing on a 2-3 x per week schedule.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I broke a P.R. on Military Press yesterday... 145 X 8. I know it's not all that great for the big guys, but it's taken me two weeks to get that last rep (I started at 145 X 7).

Nice. I can only military press 135 for a rep or two (standing), but I never train it because my shoulders don't need to get any bigger. I weigh 160ish for reference.

[Samurai Jack]

Thanks for the encouragement Iron. Really you are much stronger than me with your lower bodyweight... for now.

:D

[Samurai Jack]

Okay. No amazing new poundages yet, but I've increased the number of sets on the M. Press and Biceps Curl to three, and reduced the amount of rest between reps on the deadlift to about one second or so. That gives me just enough time to "reset" and is primarily just to avoid any injuries.

Since my primary intrest in undertaking the 20 rep deadlift program lies in hypertrophy, I figure the added sets and decreased rest will further stimulate sarcoplasmic and mytocondrial growth while the heavy working set will keep my strength gains coming with some myofibrilar stimulus.

Today's workout went like this:

2/13/05 (Sun)
Deadlift 195 X 20 (up 10 lbs. reducing pauses to reset)
Military Press 140 X 8, 130 X 6, 120X 7
Barbell Curl 90X 10, 80X 10, 70 X 10

[Samurai Jack]

Boy am I sore! I don't know what could account for the difference in soreness level when all I did was add 5 lbs. to my deadlift, but I can hardly walk and I've had three days to recover! I also tweaked my upper back yesterday just by sitting in a movie theatre seat funny. It's probably because of the deadlifts. I've had this urge to sleep constantly and have been eating like a horse, so maybe the workout is doing it's job.

I've begun to jog in place (poor man's treadmill ;) )for fifteen minutes a day because I really don't want my waist to get any thicker. I've gained two inches on my stomach, and that's quite enough for me, thank you. I've been too sore to attend Aikido class for over a week.

This week's workout:

2/20/05 (Sun)
Deadlift 200 X 20
Military Press 142 X 8, 130 X 8, 120 X 7
Barbell Curl 91 X 10, 80X 10, 70 X 10

[fa_jing]

try jumping jacks. You might end up hating me for this piece of advice...

[Samurai Jack]

try jumping jacks. You might end up hating me for this piece of advice...

Thanks.

To clarify, I've been running in place "Heavy-Hands" style with one pound dumbbells in hand.

Jumping jacks and hatred tommorrow.