Real Disgussion...

[Martial Joe]

Alright guys..lets get into some talk on the forms.

SLT~I feal it should be done very very slowly,and you should have the intent of going forward.
If you dont do it real slow try and do the first third slowly and tell me if you can feal the difference.You have to go slow anyway to get that intent,well from my experience anyway...


CK~I dont know how you do it but I do the form as hard as I can sometimes and just decenlty hard sometimes.
I look at CK as bridging the gap between myself and the ground,not the oponant and myself...
The form seems to help alot with my fotwork,probably because of my lack of experience with the other non stationary forms...


BJ :D Well I do not know this form yet but from seeing it preformed by my sifu it looks extremely powerful.My sifu does say the object is to not hold anything back,and that the form is for emergencies and is really not to be toyed around with....especialy in Chi Sau.


I obviously dont know the dummy or the weapons but from watching them it seems they will help your footwork and cowardination(sp) alot!
I feal the dummy is the most important out of those three forms(the pole,the dummy,and the swords)...When I am fooling around with the dummy everyonce in a while I really stress keeping close and directing my energy into it...

I just want you all to know from my own experience I suggest you look into your forms and try not to create bad habbits...they are alot harder to train out then in :mad:!

Well those are some thoughts everyone can disguss...

Till next time...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[rogue]

My God man, use a spell checker!!! :eek:

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

From now on, enemies who are associated with terrorist activity will not cohabit the globe with the United States of America. William F. Buckley

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” [I]Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his open mobile line right before rushi

[Martial Joe]

Yeah I suck at spelling...

You know,I would like it if you would disregard my horible spelling and actualy comment on what I said...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[marcus_pasram]

Hello Joe,

I've only practice the SLT. In our class the SLT is sometimes done slowly with tension. I'm sure there is a lot of things in there that we just don't understand yet.

As for the Dummy form, I've haven't been shown it. However I did get a chance to view SiFu Duncan Leung's wooden-dummy tape. I recommend getting the whole 5 tape set. SiFu Leung covers a lot of ground on those tapes - A must for my constant viewing.

BTW - who is Sharky?

/Marcus

In America you can go on the air and kid the politicians, and the politicians can go on the air and kid the people.

[Martial Joe]

"In our class the SLT is sometimes done slowly with tension."

What is the tention for...I wouldnt do that if I were you.Why you ask...because you lose the energy that way,no matter how slow you go,if you are tence you arent going to get that intent bud...


Sharky is a kid/guy from london,and hes real cool.He is on the forum,just not around at the moment due to colledge.He just a pal...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Ish]

I dissagree with you about the tension bit, although i always try to do the first form as slow as possible. I use tension as this greatly increases your strength. I thought that was part of the reason of the form.

[fei_jai]

There shouldn't be any tension. You shouldn't be feeling strength. One of the principles is "Minimum use of brute strength". Tension blocks the energy flow. There is a saying in our school, the form should be done "relaxed but not sloppy, firm but not tense". The form itself should feel effortless.

The Chum Kiu. The main emphasis in this form is moving the body as a single unit. I'm only just starting to learn this one.

The progress of forms were once described to me.
The Sil Lum Tao is like the chasis and wheels of a car.
The Chum Kiu is the engine.
The Bil Gee is like a turbo charger.

[Martial Joe]

Yeah,your right...


NO TENTION!!!!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[azwingchun]

I know this may be a slighlty different idea than some styles of Kung Fu, though I once had a teacher who stated that any and all forms should or can be practiced slow, fast, with tension, and speed and power(each practiced individually). The reasoning behind this is that practicing a form at different levels builds different strengths. The belief that going slow for example builds the internal strengths. The strenghts and structure of movement isn't the end result of a punch for example, as much as it is the starting and everything in between that makes the punch powerful. So you must build the strength of the movement(s) in the middle of the actual action as well as the explosive impact. I hope I worded this properly so that everyone understands what I am trying to get across. ;)

[yenhoi]

From my understanding tension should be avoided at all speeds during all forms. I havent been training for a long time but Its explained to me that by training relaxed (not necessarily slowly) will result in speed benefits.

Related - what are your thoughts regarding performing the slt on one leg?

I was taught to train slt in the 'normal' stance as well as on each leg.

I am a young MA but I have noticed speed increase and I have observed that you can go faster while still staying relaxed.

Again, 'relaxed' and 'slow' do not mean the same thing.

strike!

[azwingchun]

I don't know if you you were referring to me when you were speaking about the use of tension, I knew when I used that word some people might take it as it sounds, but this isn't case. When I was referring to tension I was refrring to forward pressure. I have also heard forward pressure called dynamic force, again some people may think of tension when they hear this as well. A good formula for power is: stretching creates relaxation, relaxtion builds(allows) speed, and speed brings power. Again this is just a basic thought, there are obviously other things involved. ;)

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> A good formula for power is: stretching creates relaxation, relaxtion builds(allows) speed, and speed brings power. Again this is just a basic thought, there are obviously other things involved. [/quote]

Newtons Law of physics states:

Force = Mass X Acceleration

I would have to disagree that stretching creates relaxation, i think the mind is what relaxes the body. Although i do agree that relaxation will bring, or at least make increased speed possible. (need to know how to use it)


S.Teebas

[azwingchun]

I completely agree that the mind does help bring on relaxation when practiced correctly.....though as I stated before that was a basic simple formula and that there are other things needed for ultimate power. The comment that I made about stretching is the physical aspect of relaxation, for example how can a person who doesn't stretch have complete relaxation, the stretching does aid in this. ;)

[yenhoi]

I see.

I agree with the use (or cultivation) of forward pressure.

Tension is bad :)

Streching does contribute to relaxation when done right... so does the mind.

azwingchun on the mark.

strike!

[Roy D. Anthony]

If you find the right position of the hand, you will feel a natural tension. Then you have tension from position and structure. You will see that it changes your training, and completes your understanding of the form. Hope this helps.

[old jong]

I agree totally with Roy on natural tension produced by correct structure. It is not forced at all if you compare with forced tension as in flexing muscles! ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[Martial Joe]

Do you fight on one leg?
I doubt it.And I find that bad training because your weight is qalways going to be shifted right?
It is the only way to stay on one foot for long...
Stay centered,just use two feet...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[yenhoi]

I occasionally find myself standing on one leg when fighting. (Perhaps not 'standing' but nonetheless on one leg.)

I am intrested in that you dont kick at all MJ.
(Or perhaps you have forgotten about all those other tools.)

Most styles of Wing Chun (as I understand) eventually will teach sticking legs.

strike!

[azwingchun]

Very well put........"natural tension".....I like that term, hope you don't mind if I borrow it? ;)

[Martial Joe]

Yen,You dont have to shift your weight and stand on one leg to kick...yes when I kick I am on one leg but my weight distrobution isnt like haveing my weight totaly shifted,I have some weight still on my leg that is off the ground...
If I had all my weight on my leg on the ground it would take more time to bring it back down because I would have to do it manualy,but if I have my weight still centered,or close to it,my foot wont stay on the air long,it cant,only enough to kick the guy...
Shifting your weight totaly will make you more vonerable...
Try it out yourself...
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[yenhoi]

I wasent really speaking about application.

In my view one-legged stance is just that... stance training. Same thing as standing on two feet - developing root, centerline awareness, hips, knees, general strength... etc.

I would not advocate standing on one leg and attempting to fight someone. Nor would I tell someone to fight standing in the slt stance.

We were speaking about Wing Chun forms - I do the slt on one or the other leg some of the time.

strike!

[[Censored]]

yes when I kick I am on one leg but my weight distrobution isnt like haveing my weight totaly shifted,I have some weight still on my leg that is off the ground...

I saw this in a movie once! Sifu MJ, please teach us your Shaolin Wonder Stance!

:p

[Martial Joe]

You goofball :p

and yen,I was just explaining how I kick...silly...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[whippinghand]

"I would not advocate standing on one leg and attempting to fight someone."

SLT is not the fight itself, don't forget, just because there are a series of movements.

However, it is important to be able to generate power, even from standing on one leg, even though you may never use it.

You cannot guarantee what will and will not happen. Who knows, you may one day just need to punch someone while standing on one leg.

Do you people not kick?

[Jeff Brown]

don't forget, even a one-legged fighter combatting against another one-legged fighter has two legs to stand on.

"Once I have harnessed the power of the Sun, I will be UNSTOPPABLE!" -- Mini-Me

[sunkuen]

Silly man,are you tryin' to teach the one and only whipping Hand!!! With chum kiu, no less!!! :eek: ........lol

[Jeff Brown]

just adding to the conversation is all!

:cool:

"Once I have harnessed the power of the Sun, I will be UNSTOPPABLE!" -- Mini-Me

[whippinghand]

Good one, MS(G) (the additive of course)

[weakstudent]

i been away a while from the forum and when i do my slt i do the form as slow as possibe and i find that creates natural tension whichs i think is best for slt .


good to be back anyfight in school joe

nelson

[Martial Joe]

Weak Student...You have been gone for months...
We were saposed to do something in september...remember...


And not,no fights...yet...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...