Speed excersises

[Jeff Liboiron]

Hey people, just wondering if you could give me any tips on how to get more speed, i can only do 6 pucnhes per sec, and would like to get alot faster like the rest of you on the message board :-)

thanx :-)

[S.Teebas]

Relax!

[Jeff Liboiron]

You mean relax more when punching? I feel that i'm as relaxed as i get, but i will try to be more relaxed, thanks :-)

[ghoyd]

I just did an hour and a half session on speed at our annual picnic Saturday. I don't have my notes here, but it's still fresh in my mind.

Try working one punch at a time first (before chain punching). This is very important at first, so you can think about what you are doing. Eventually it will become naturally and you will no longer need to think. Then try for speed in your chain punching.

Here are 10 tips off the top of my head.

1. RELAX

2. When you punch, think of using absolutely NO muscles in the biceps! The biceps are for pulling objects to you, not pushing it away from you, therefore when you use them you are "putting the brakes on your punch". The force in your punch should come from the abduction of the wrist, the triceps, and the lats (speaking of upper body only here).

3. RELAX

4. Of course you want to throw your punch out as fast as you can,,,, but in your mind, think of retracting it twice as fast as you threw it out. (You will find this adds to the power as well).

5. RELAX

6. Make certain your punch is traveling a straight line. Sometimes if you watch yourself (sideways) in a mirror, you may see that your punches are coming out elliptical. This is a longer path than a straight line. They should come out as straight as a bullet,,, from the point of origin, directly to the target. This is the most economical path.

7. RELAX

8. Work the punch in the air first (since you are going for speed). Once you learn to relax, then start working power into them.

9. RELAX

10. Practice your kinestetic awareness. In other words, learn to feel what your body is doing. This is important in everything you do in the martial arts from increasing speed, to developing more power.

And a bonus tip for you....

11. You guessed it,,, relax. I remember when I first began Wing Chun (before I ever formally studied JKD), my sihings kept sayin "relax!". I would get very frustrated, and say "I am relaxed!". I am so thankfull for those guys!

Guess what I am now constantly telling my students? You guessed it!


There is a lot more than this, but you get the idea.

I have quite a few drills to develop speed if your interested, e-mail me at ghoyd@yahoo.com

I usually only stop by here every few days, so I may miss your response or forget about posting them.

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

[jameswebsteruk]

Why bother trying to do more than 6 punches a second? If you in the position where you can hit somebody, you only need two or three punches.

The whole point of the wing chun punch, like any good kungfu punch, is that the power doesnt come from the arms, or the speed of the hands, but from the structure, the legs, and ultimately, the ground. Ideally, you should be driving the punch off the back leg, so that you hit the person with your whole bodyweight, rather than just your upper body strength.

Words from the master of reality fighting, Wong Shun Leung, who "laughs at the machine-gun like chain punching practiced by many wing chun styles, pointing out they would never work in a real situation."

Dont think of spraying the opponent with a machinegun, think of sniping him with a highpowered rifle.

Booom! There goes his sternum. Boom! Boom! There goes his jaw. The end. :)

What did the Zen Master say to the hot dog vendor?
Make me one with everything.

[Universal Stance]

This one I learned for one of Bruce Lee's books with some mods from myself. I've used it for about 8 years now and I've always been told I have very quick jabs and straight punches. It involves keeping the shoulders down and relaxed.

Next, attach sheet of paper to a paper clip and suspend it from the ceiling with a rope or chain that will not allow the paper to fly all over the place. (Shoe strings are to light; I use a small bike chain or even interlocking paper clips.) At the point the the paper clip is attached to the paper (through a hole) reinforce the area with tape so that the hole doesn't rip the paper further.

When you punch, aim to punch through the paper to rip through it (not off the chain). It can only be done with speed and snapping power. Keep your form. After a little while my Wing Chun punch would put holes in the middle of the sheet.

Also if you put a dot on the paper you can practice you accuracy too.

"Any style that can protect you is valuable; keep the 'who's style is better' debate to yourself" - Me

[Jeff Liboiron]

thanks alot guys for your input, oh and good point frank, i believe you are right :)

[kgrind]

ghoyd:

Straight punches arent neccessarily better than circular punches.

A more circular punch gives you a natural body rythym that automatically sets you arm up for the next punch. Doing 6 straight punches in a second is a very unatural movement for the shoulder. 6 circular like punches in a second is a very fluid and natural motion for your shoulders.

I think it s a yin and yang issue. Both have their pros and cons. I tend to like fluid motion more than linear like motion though.

[S.Teebas]

A good structure will enable you to relax the most. Also, focusing!


S.Teebas

[yenhoi]

This thread focuses on punching and principle...


How about speed training for kicks?

Specifically linear kicks... simple forward kicks and low hooks... (hook is not linear I know.)

I am intrested in kicking your face with my rear foot... very quickly.... :eek:

Asking to much?

tks

strike!

[Jeff Liboiron]

Yen Hoi, since i only have one leg i don't really use kicks

[ghoyd]

Frank,

You said "The whole point of the wing chun punch, like any good kungfu punch, is that the power doesnt come from the arms, or the speed of the hands, but from the structure, the legs, and ultimately, the ground. Ideally, you should be driving the punch off the back leg, so that you hit the person with your whole bodyweight, rather than just your upper body strength."


I agree that the power comes from the legs, and the ground. BUT,,, the power also DOES come from the hip, arms, lats, abduction of the wrist, etc.. Also speed DOES have something to do with power. I may be mistaken, but isn't the formula for power, MASSxACCELLERATION=POWER? Power comes from many places. Timing is something else that can effect power.

Structure IS a key (I agree), but body connection is also required (there is a difference). Imagine having a structurally sound home with no nails or screws in it. It wouldn't stay together long.

I do agree that in chain punching, accuracy and power are most important. But could your punch ever be too fast?

kgrind,

I don't think doing 6 straight punches is unatural at all. Mine come out in a straight line, but when retracting them, they follow an elliptical pattern. Coming out straight better facilitates the "heavy elbow" and makes it easier to cut over any hands that may get in the way.

You also can not abduct the wrist properly if your punch is arcing down at the end.

Yen Hoi,

Try this for speeding your kicks:

First, find a training partner. Tell him you are going to throw some kicks at a pad, mitt, or heavy bag. Tell him to let you know when they get faster. Throw a FEW regular kicks at a pad or mitt,,, but not all at once :-) Let your partner gauge your speed.

Then without telling him that this is the one where he will see the difference,,,, let the kick fly,, but this time, think very hard of getting your foot back down to the ground as quickly as possible! Most people I have seen do this get INSTANT results. Heck, try it in the air and see if it works.

I hope this helps someone, and generates discussion without offending anyone.

Respectfully,
Gary Hoyd

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

[jameswebsteruk]

Ghoyd,
I agree with most of what you say, if a little unsure of the difference between structure and body connection.

For us, one is intrinsically linked to the other. If a house is structurally sound, then it will stay together, regardless of the method of construction. If it doesnt stay together long, then surely it wasnt structurally sound to begin with? Can you elaborate?

You are also right on the power front, unfortunately power can be defined in many ways, and is often confused with force, or even momentum. Power can be defined as force * velocity, also as energy change/time. Force is defined as mass * acceleration. Can get confusing!

If one tends to concentrate on speed only when punching, the danger is that the withdrawal of the punch becomes as important as the hit of the next one, so that emphasis could be taken away from hitting, onto purely how fast one can do the actions.

My point really was to say that if you can already do 6 solid punches a second, with full bodyweight behind each one, why bother spending hours trying to reach 7 or 8 or more, when 6 is already far more than adequate? I would prefer to spend my time on practicing getting into the situation where you can do the punches! ;)

Regards
Frank

What did the Zen Master say to the hot dog vendor?
Make me one with everything.

[chi-kwai]

I know this is a really petty point, but i have seen it on several threads. the word is adduction, not abduction. one word means "to draw inward toward the median" while the other word means "To carry off by force; kidnap."

sorry for being a grammar cop. :(

--
chi kwai

[ghoyd]

Hi Frank,

As for connection and structure, that subject could make a book alone. I will try to dig up some text from a friend to help in the explanation. If I can't find it, I will attempt to explain it myself. I have to run some errands in a bit though, so it will have to be in a future post.

I think we do agree on most of what has been said,, but you may think that I am stressing speed over power. No, I don't. There is a time and a place for each. There are times I may want to sacrafice one for the other. I never meant (or said) speed was more important.... I am just offering ways to help increase it (because that was what the question in the original post asked for).

As for the formula,,, like I said, I was uncertain of the exact formula, but the point is the same. Often speed and power go hand and hand.

I agree that your concentration should not be on speed when blasting,,, but I do feel it should be trained so that you are naturally as fast as you can be (with no conscious thought about it).

Chi kwai,, thanks for the correction. Nothing wrong with being a grammar cop! You wouldn't want to go around kidnapping peoples wrists ;-)

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANC

[dzu]

Connection, or linkage, is coordination of two or more parts of the body. When you hit for speed, you can isolate the arms to leak in, find the openings, and set the opponent up. When you use the arms with the body, everything is coordinated so that the entire mass of the body is used, not just that of the arm. Defensively, you can unlink the arm from the body to save the overall structure. Body structure and body connection are very complimentary concepts. Body connection can be present when standing, so it's not the same as stepping and hitting with just the arm.

While Newtonian physics can give a very simple overview, the biomechanics of the body cannot be simply summarized by a couple equations. If you do use F=mass*acceleration, ask yourself: how much mass am I hitting with and which parts of the body are contributing?

IMHO there is a more noticeable difference when using arm only versus arm + body due to the extra mass involved. Increasing the speed of the arm by itself is not as efficient. Plus, by connecting the entire body, the legs, buttocks and ground are used as the source of power.

Dzu

[ghoyd]

Good post Dzu!

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

[jesper]

Timing is.

Go work on your timing, it is so much more useful in a real fight.

[ghoyd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chi kwai:
I know this is a really petty point, but i have seen it on several threads. the word is a_d_duction, not a_b_duction. one word means "to draw inward toward the median" while the other word means "To carry off by force; kidnap."

sorry for being a grammar cop. :(

--
chi kwai[/quote]

Actually no. Here is a reference:

http://www.med.umich.edu/lrc/Hypermuscle/Hyper.html

These actions are possible about an axis arranged in an antero-posterior direction through a joint.

A movement of a body part away from the midline, either of the body as a whole or that of the hand or foot, is termed abduction (L., to carry away).

A movement of the body part back toward the midline (i.e., to the anatomical position) is known as adduction

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

[dre_doggX]

if you stretch the body as one
you move a whole lot faster

Andre Lashley

[Bessho]

Sounds like lots of talking about no speed training... There must be more to it than relaxing and paper punching like Bruce Lee learned studying WC in HK. - Ken

[This message was edited by Bessho on 11-04-01 at 09:03 PM.]

[whippinghand]

How do you practise timing.

[CLOUD ONE]

Get closer to your target ;)