Whats everyones thoughts on atkins?

[Royal Dragon]

I have two conflicting opinions. One, from one of my oldest freinds, and ER nurse - Atkins is the worst thing you could ever do, it causes all sorts of health problems, doctors won't allow paitients to do it. Gian, I'm gonna hurt you if you try it.



The other from another close friend

Atkins is the bomb, gives explanations about sugar, glucose levels (contradicted by the other one btw) and metabolisum of fat burning vs sugar and such.

My issue is this, although atkins seems to make sense when explained by atkins followers, when I tried it I really felt like the life had been sucked out of me, Including getting dizzy spells if I stood up too quick and everything. This lasted 3 weeks till I said the hell with it and went back to eating whole pinanples for breakfast. I didn't lose anything at all, and infact gained a bit. Going back to eating a diet of like 50% raw fruites and veggies however resulted in a 10 pound loss over 3 months (with little training)

I admit to not knowing much of it, and just followed the diet recomendations of my "Pro" atkins freind.

My friend that is "for it" lost 50 pounds, but was grumpy as hell, and she worked out alot the whole time (although claims not to have worked out at all now)

Anyone have atkins experiances, pro and con,and can annyone explain the bio Chemistry from a NON atkins perspective? (Ie does the biochemistry reallly work the way atkins says it does, or is it all just medical/tech pshyco-babble?)

[norther practitioner]

It is disenteric, or at least thats what I've heard for the first week or something.

[Royal Dragon]

What is disenteric?

[Pork Chop]

I've made a lot of mistakes in training over the years.
So for starters, take anything I say with a grain of salt.
I'm just giving my experiences and trying to give input, coz input on a thread is better than no input and letting it sink to the bottom.

In training a while back, i pretty much had to quit a school for a while because I was overdoing it everytime i went there, was constantly injured or too sore to move outside of class, and wasn't getting any better. As a result, i learned to take it easier (although I keep having to re-learn this lesson anytime i start back up) and push myself to a point.

In dieting, in 2003 I dropped 50+ pounds in 6 months.
As I said in my blog thread, I did this by eating under 1000 calories a day (close to 600 on a lot of days); and working out about 3 hours a day, 6 days a week. Assuming 1000 cal per hour, that's upwards of 18,000 cal per week (heck let's be conservative and say 15k); while taking in 3,600 cal on those 6 days. With a conservative estimate of 9k calorie deficit over a 6 day period, it's not hard to see I lost a ton of weight. I was also a wreck. By the end of it, I would die in sparring after the first round. My strength (as much as I didn't want to admit it) fell pretty drastically. I was going out of my mind with hunger; but I was getting small again and that was all that important.

After I lost [EDIT: and started eating again] I ballooned right away, which isn't surprising. Within a month or 2 I'd already put 35 pounds back on.

Again, I learned that going hard core is probably not the best way to go.


It's important to do the age old "listen to your body". I hear steroid pumping bodybuilders drop that phrase all the time and it kinda makes me laugh; but it's an important lesson.

A long term slight change will be much better for you than a short term drastic change for sure.

Some people do very well on low carb diets. They don't get grumpy, they don't have a hard time sticking to it, and they lose a lot of weight.

From what you said, you're not one of these people. You seem like you'd do better if you got more natural foods. Maybe not go 100% vegetarian, but maybe "clean up your diet" with that in mind.

I'm still trying to find what works for me. I know a few things that work pretty well; but fighting the urge to continue bad habits is hard. It's causing me to examine my daily routine and see what i need to tweak in order to make the changes that I need to achieve my goals.

You may need to re-evaluate your habits, your daily routine, your mood/disposition, and maybe your home/work life in order to institute the changes you need to make.

[EDIT: All that being said, I don't think Atkins is all that healthy a program. The Zone is probably a lot better as it promotes balance.]

[Vash]

Here's the bestest diet in the world, EVAR!

Protein from clean sources: at least 1gram/lbs of bodyweight
Carbs: Complex - fruits, veggies, whole grain rice, etc. It's amazing what a difference the processed stuff makes.
Fats: moderatin. I get most of mine from the hamburgers or steak I eat. Not a whole lot. Protein is the only thing I really watch for, amount-wise, aside from overall caloric intake.

I personally, do two-three shakes a day, plus a can of tuna and a 1/2 can of spinach twice a day, and a small, regular-food dinner.

[Royal Dragon]

I guess I'm really looking for an explanation of the bio chemistry of atkins from somone NOT gung ho about it.

I want to know if the atkins diet actually effects the body the way they say it does from a bio chemical perspective.

I have heard it causes spikes in blood sugar to the point that is spills into the urine. This is from my friend the ER nurse. She is in a position to routinly see the test results.

My other friend says atkins "Controls" blood sugar to keep it from spiking or droping off.

Now, I am assuming ER nurse is right because she has the education, and daily experiance to test theories, where as the other is just reading atkin's books. But what I want to know is "Why" does that diet casue spikes in blood sugar when you aren't really eating any sugar/carbs. What is the bio mechanisum for this??

What is making the blood and urine tests come back with high sugar levels?? And why do atkins proponents think the opposite happenes?

[Pork Chop]

I can't really speak on that, only to say that it really messes with your insulin sensitivity.

Do some online searches for Ketosis to see what is going on biochemically with that diet.

[Suntzu]

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/23/jacques.html

[Chief Fox]

An active person NEEDS carbs for fuel. Akins is all about the low carbs. So for me, if your active, stay away from Atkins.

[norther practitioner]

disenteric mean it causes disentary

[Ming Yue]

Atkins made me feel horrible. I was training my usual amount (3-4x a week, 2-3 hours at a time). I was low energy, I fatigued easily, and I got headaches.

I read more about ketosis at the time and actually realized it's a pretty sketchy condition to maintain and can be dangerous for some people.


Atkins did help me break my love of simple carbs though, now I eat almost none but get lots of complex carbs.

[PangQuan]

Ill tell you something. People have kept physically fit for a long time, long before the Atkins family line was even started im betting. You dont need some guy telling you how you should not eat a particular food type because it has carbs. thats silly. Especially if your an active person. Maybe if your an American couch potato it might help you out. Another thing. Do you really want to take health advice from someone who died prematurely?

[PangQuan]

I just found this hilarious quote on the atkins diet.


THE ATKINS DIET you can't even eat an apple anymore without some bacon chugging ketosis-zombie telling you about the insane amount of carbs inside. It's bad enough that they're selling low-carb toilet paper in the grocery stores to appeal to these idiots, but they're putting such a drain on the beef supply that I can't buy a good steak without taking out a second mortgage on my house. I just keep thinking about the line Daniel Stern's character said in "City Slickers" after Curly died, "The man ate bacon at every meal...you just can't do that!" Here's a tip, when the autopsy they performed on the guy that founded your diet shows that his veins had turned into a network of Slim Jims and Vienna Sausages, it's time to rethink your plan.

[Royal Dragon]

I can't seem to find too much on the bio mechanics of it, however it appears in one year it's not any more effectve than just eating right and doing Kung Fu

[norther practitioner]

No sh1t

lol, this french lady just wrote this book, I think it is called French Women don't get fat...

It basically says to limit portions and to not eat until you are full...

[bung bo]

Your nurse friend is right. I'm an EMT and have studied the endocrine system. You need carbs to fuel you, to provide adequate amounts of glucose. When your body has no glucose (carbs), it starts to burn fat for fuel. The burning of fat produces ketones and turns your body more acidic than it should be. And your brain can't use fat for energy, just glucose (carbs).

About the blood-sugar spike--Glucose is a large molecule that attracts water wherever it goes. When the blood has a lot of glucose the kidneys can't filter it and large amounts of glucose spill off into the urine. Thus making one dehydrated and hypoglycemic.

I'm guessing that if a pro-atkins person has a low blood-glucose level suddenly raises their BGL it will put them into insulin-shock. What I mean is that this person's body now has to put out more insulin than it's used to and the glucose won't move into the cells fast enough (hyperglycemia).

Iwould advise against this diet, ESPECIALLY diabetics.

[Royal Dragon]

Where does the Glucose come from in a low carb diet? Is it lots of Glucose from somewhere, or a lack of insulin that casues the problem?

[Reggie1]

OK, here's my take on the Atkins diet. I'm not a big fan of it, but I'm not a big fan of any of the 'fad' diets.

The Basics:
Your body uses three different types of molecules for energy production.
#1 Carbohydrates
#2 Fat
#3 Protein

In the biochemical chain of events, protein is basically the 'emergency' food source. It's only used as a last resort, and generally when people are suffering from serious starvation. Think of using protein for energy as your body eating itself (its own muscles) to survive.

With the Atkins diet, the idea is to completely skip step #1 (carbs) so your burns fat and protein. By not eating the carbs, your body is forced to burn off your fat stores and the protein that you eat for energy.

As far as diets go, I can't argue with the fact that people to adhere to Atkins are generally successful losing weight. In a way, it makes sense. Just bypass all the carbs so your body burns the fat stored up.

But I do have a problem with several points of the Atkins diet

#1--Your body was not designed to burn protein for energy. Again, it's designed as an 'emergency' function, not something to be sustained over a long time. Processing large amounts of protein for energy is hard on both your liver and your kidneys.

#2--consumption of saturated fat should ALWAYS be moderated. I'm not an expert on the rules of Atkins, but I remember seeing friends of mine on the diet eating craploads of saturated fat and saying that it is OK. IT'S NOT! No matter what kind of diet you have, eating lots of saturated fat (and trans fat) is bad. The shyt sticks to your arteries and clogs them up. That's what leads to heart attacks.

More to come in a sec.

[Reggie1]

My conclusions about the Atkins diet:

The Atkins diet is effective, but why do it? There are other ways to diet that are just as easy to stick to, and much better for your body.

Dieting is simple. Fad diets will come and go, with creative new ways to lose weight, but the best way to diet will always be the one that has been around for the last 50 years:

EXERCISE AND EAT RIGHT

It's simple. Watch what you eat, and make sure that the calories you put in your body are fewer than the calories you burn. It's simple, it's effective, and it's natural!


Protein from clean sources: at least 1gram/lbs of bodyweight
Carbs: Complex - fruits, veggies, whole grain rice, etc. It's amazing what a difference the processed stuff makes.
Fats: moderation. I get most of mine from the hamburgers or steak I eat. Not a whole lot. Protein is the only thing I really watch for, amount-wise, aside from overall caloric intake.

If you want to diet, try Vash's. It really is the best diet ever.

[Reggie1]

One more thing: a lot of recent research on Atkins shows that there is a good chance that the main reason that people lose weight on that diet is calorie control. Even though people don't notice, they are consuming fewer calories on the Atkins diet, because their meals are smaller without the carbs.

If you want to look at some of the stuff, go to WebMD.com and type Atkins diet in the search engine.

[Reggie1]

Last thing, I promise.

I had a friend who asked me about the Atkins diet. He was an ~60 yr old male who was slightly overweight. I told him I really didn't like it that much, and explained why. He argued with me about it for a while, and then decided to do it anyway.

He stuck with it for about 3-4 months. Pure Atkins, not very much exercise. It worked out wonderfully. He lost about 30 lbs.

Then about 6 months later he had to go have emergency triple bypass surgery.

And the doctor said no more Atkins. Put him on a diet of low saturated fat, and told him to exercise.


Also, Atkins is bad for anybody who is extremely active (i.e. martial artists). You don't want to go exercise to build up muscle (protein) only to have your body use the protein for energy instead of muscle development.

[Royal Dragon]

Good point.

[MoreMisfortune]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Where does the Glucose come from in a low carb diet?

It comes from "gluconeogenesis" that happens in the liver since the brain NEEEEEDS glucosis to function

[Royal Dragon]

What is gluconeogenesis??

[Ming Yue]

The process of making glucose (sugar) from its own breakdown products or from the breakdown products of fats or proteins. Gluconeogenesis occurs mainly in cells of the liver or kidney.

[Royal Dragon]

So basically atkins is forcing those organs to over work?

[Ming Yue]

Yep, I believe so, although probably not in the short term.

Ketones are chemicals that the body makes when there is not enough insulin in the blood and it must break down fat for its energy. Ketone bodies can poison and even kill body cells. When the body does not have the help of insulin, the ketones build up in the blood and then "spill" over into the urine so that the body can get rid of them. The body can also rid itself of one type of ketone, called acetone, through the lungs. This gives the breath a fruity odor. Ketones that build up in the body for a long time lead to ketoacidosis, which is a serious illness that can cause coma and even death.

[Ming Yue]

here's a good link. wikipedia rocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

[Royal Dragon]

Acetone?? Holy smokes!! That stuff is used in acetlyne tanks to reduce the volitilyty of acetylne so it's not explosive under presures greater than 15 psi!!!

[Royal Dragon]

Awesome link!! Your google skills are sperior to mine!! I bow to my master!!

Seriously though, that last link gave me the answers to my questions. The acetone thing is interesting though. It says it gives you "Sweet" Breath. I wonder how many think that is a good thing?

The diet looks like it would be horrible for Kung Fu. Also, I have Gout, I can guarentee it would put me into severe pain in a short time.

When I tried it before, I was on allopurinaol, so it hid the effect but I controll my gout with Cherry cider now, which is REALLY good for you, but totally not Atkins freindly.

[Ming Yue]

It was horrible for kung fu. I was a freakin' slug. No wind, no strength. I'd go home and collapse after class.

also the phrase "sweet breath" is a euphamism. ketosis makes your mouth taste like something died under your tongue.

Don't do Atkins, RD. Cut out sugar, convenience foods and simple carbs, eat lots of lowfat dairy, grains and fruit and veggies, lean protein and drink water all day.

[Ming Yue]

oh yea, and another charming side effect is constipation. My boss stayed on Atkins for months (he talked me into trying it) and he had to take lots and lots of fiber supplements just to be comfortably regular. The train just was not leaving the station.

[Royal Dragon]

I have no plans of trying it again. Last time I did it just tanked, and I was only doing it 3 weeks. I actually GAINED weight.

My Ex Debbie's doing it, not that she needs to lose more than 5.

Apparently she lost 50 on it two years ago, and swears by it. She was working out then, but does not admit that now.

My freind the ER nurse thinks she is nutts, and threatened to hurt me if I tried it with her. :D

[norther practitioner]

So no more girl, now maybe a few new girls from match.. and the whole diet thing..

good luck....


lol

[Royal Dragon]

No, I'm not doing it, just want to understand why everyone (outside of it's supporters) say it's so harmfull.

As for Match, I have like 6 of them I'm juggling right now, but that has nothing to do with this thread, that's one for the main board!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
Atkins made me feel horrible. I was training my usual amount (3-4x a week, 2-3 hours at a time). I was low energy, I fatigued easily, and I got headaches.


the people I know who have tried it say the same thing. It makes sense - your major sources of energy are carbs and fats, and you are cutting one. I'm curious though - were you fatigued while training, or afterward?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
It was horrible for kung fu. I was a freakin' slug. No wind, no strength. I'd go home and collapse after class.


nevermind, there's my answer. I was wondering because the body's main source of energy while working out is carbs. While resting, it's fat...after the workout, it seems like you'd get a second wind because of that.

[Ming Yue]

I would be fatigued during and then never get the nice rush afterwards.

I didn't stay on it very long... evenutally I might have adjusted to it, but I listen to my body and it hated Atkins.

[SevenStar]

what happened to the weight you lost because of it? the ones that I know re-gained it almost instantly.

[Ming Yue]

in the three weeks I was on it I lost about 10lbs and have kept it off. I consistently get a lot of excercise though, I think most people don't exercise on Atkins and then regain the weight after the diet because they return to "normal" eating AND don't work out.

[Royal Dragon]

Debbie lost 50, pretty much stopped working out, and only gained back 5

[MoreMisfortune]

son i had lost 55 i think, without any atkins, ODDkins, or WANkins (oh wait... that i did)

i regained some 10 or 15, i dont know
mostly for slacking + lakc of motivation + boring plateu

it really pains me that after all the hard work i had done for that weight loss i still dont feel good enough to even take me focking shirt of and go to the beach
its sad to be me!
yes, i do look that bad!

[Royal Dragon]

See, I think there is a falacy in weight loss. Everyone promotes "Thier" diet or method by trashing others...mostly by saying other methods are only temporary. Example "XYZ lost 50 on ZXY plan". The reply is "Oh yeah, but that plan sux they allways gain it back when they stop"

Well, as soon as you stop ANY plan, and go back to sucking down Cheesburgers, fries and double helpings, your GONNNAAA gain the weight back!!

Also, since I have been looking into this, the results on Atkins aren't all that impressive. It seems at the one year mark, atkins weigth loss is no more significant than eating a diet of raw friuts and veggies, keeping your animal intake sensible while controlling portion size and just exerciseing more.

So when it comes to us, our best bet is to just practice our art, and eat healthy.

Others, Like Debbie, can do what they want, and what works for them, even if it's harmfull.

[Mighty Mungbean]

As a general lurker without much to say, I did want to add in to this discussion. I'm a newly certified personal trainer and "fitness professional" (by no means an expert) and I'm really bugged by this whole Atkin's/South Beach bs. Not only is it unhealthy but it ultimately cuts into my bottom line. Potential clients who could truly benefit from my services risk taking their health in an adverse direction just so that they may take the easy way out. Many don't realize that exclusively focusing on the short term often brings problems in the long term.

From what I read there is a great deal of good sense amongst the posters here about what constitues a good diet. Avoiding highly processed foods is certainly the best piece of advice. The second is listening to your body and the cues it gives you. One thing I did want to add, however, is the frequency of eating. The latest school of thought is smaller more frequent meals throughout the day. Instead of three square meals, try grazing slowly through the day spreading your calorie intake over five or six small meals, eating every two to three hours. My layman's understanding is that eating this way allows your body to relax about storing food for energy. It gets used to eating more often and doesn't need to store as much fat as it's prepped to take in new nutrition on a more frequent basis.

[Andy62]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the NY Post:

According to a revealing new biography by Lisa Rogak titled "Dr. Robert Atkins: The True Story of the Man Behind the War on Carbohydrates," Atkins was notorious for bedding his patients and nurses.

"Atkins had developed a reputation as being good in bed, and, inevitably, a number of women - who may or may not have benefited from his take on weight-loss - visited the office and became his patient solely to have sex with him," Rogak wrote.

One unnamed woman now old enough to be receiving Social Security said she remembered how she stuck to the Atkins' diet even though she secretly thought it was unhealthy.

"I could always lose the weight, that wasn't the problem," she shared. "I just wanted to jump his bones."

He apparently was infamous among his friends for hiring pretty nurses at his practice.

"He liked women with nice-looking ankles," recalled Bernard Raxlen, a physician colleague.

More than a few times, Atkins would romance a nurse for a couple weeks, then cast her aside for the next good-looking woman who walked into his office, Rogak wrote.

Atkins' luck with the ladies went all the way back to his college days, when he always was dressed to the nines and loved to please a crowd with his Danny Kaye impressions, Rogak wrote.

"Boy, did he date," recalled Larry Stein, a Dayton, Ohio, real-estate developer who was Atkins' fraternity brother when they attended the University of Michigan in the 1950s.

"Though he never dated any one girl on a steady basis. . . . They were knockouts."

His constant flirtations didn't always go over well though. While doing postgraduate medical training in Boston, several nurses had to carefully orchestrate plans to avoid Atkins when making after-work plans.

"He flirted with all of us, waiting to see if he could talk one of us into going home with him for the night," remembered former nurse Barbara Stinson.

As word of his diet spread, his fame grew and so did his prowess with women.

But his catting around apparently came to an end when he met his wife, Veronica Luckey, a classy divorc?e who wouldn't put up with his cheating ways, when he was 56.

"Veronica made it clear from the beginning that she would not put up with any philandering," Rogak wrote.

They stayed married until Atkins died in April 2003 after slipping on an icy Manhattan sidewalk.

She was his staunchest defender when criticism arose after his death about the risks of his famous high-fat, high-protein diet.

"I want him to be remembered for his courage," Veronica Atkins is quoted as saying.

Originally published on January 8, 2005

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MoreMisfortune
son i had lost 55 i think, without any atkins, ODDkins, or WANkins (oh wait... that i did)

i regained some 10 or 15, i dont know
mostly for slacking + lakc of motivation + boring plateu

it really pains me that after all the hard work i had done for that weight loss i still dont feel good enough to even take me focking shirt of and go to the beach
its sad to be me!
yes, i do look that bad!

that's a mental issue, bud, not a physical one. I know guys who are WAY bigger than you who walk outside with no shirt.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Andy62
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the NY Post:

According to a revealing new biography by Lisa Rogak titled "Dr. Robert Atkins: The True Story of the Man Behind the War on Carbohydrates," Atkins was notorious for bedding his patients and nurses.

"Atkins had developed a reputation as being good in bed, and, inevitably, a number of women - who may or may not have benefited from his take on weight-loss - visited the office and became his patient solely to have sex with him," Rogak wrote.

One unnamed woman now old enough to be receiving Social Security said she remembered how she stuck to the Atkins' diet even though she secretly thought it was unhealthy.

"I could always lose the weight, that wasn't the problem," she shared. "I just wanted to jump his bones."

He apparently was infamous among his friends for hiring pretty nurses at his practice.

"He liked women with nice-looking ankles," recalled Bernard Raxlen, a physician colleague.

More than a few times, Atkins would romance a nurse for a couple weeks, then cast her aside for the next good-looking woman who walked into his office, Rogak wrote.

Atkins' luck with the ladies went all the way back to his college days, when he always was dressed to the nines and loved to please a crowd with his Danny Kaye impressions, Rogak wrote.

"Boy, did he date," recalled Larry Stein, a Dayton, Ohio, real-estate developer who was Atkins' fraternity brother when they attended the University of Michigan in the 1950s.

"Though he never dated any one girl on a steady basis. . . . They were knockouts."

His constant flirtations didn't always go over well though. While doing postgraduate medical training in Boston, several nurses had to carefully orchestrate plans to avoid Atkins when making after-work plans.

"He flirted with all of us, waiting to see if he could talk one of us into going home with him for the night," remembered former nurse Barbara Stinson.

As word of his diet spread, his fame grew and so did his prowess with women.

But his catting around apparently came to an end when he met his wife, Veronica Luckey, a classy divorc?e who wouldn't put up with his cheating ways, when he was 56.

"Veronica made it clear from the beginning that she would not put up with any philandering," Rogak wrote.

They stayed married until Atkins died in April 2003 after slipping on an icy Manhattan sidewalk.

She was his staunchest defender when criticism arose after his death about the risks of his famous high-fat, high-protein diet.

"I want him to be remembered for his courage," Veronica Atkins is quoted as saying.

Originally published on January 8, 2005

lol @ atkins being a pimp

[MoreMisfortune]

Originally posted by SevenStar
that's a mental issue, bud, not a physical one. I know guys who are WAY bigger than you who walk outside with no shirt.

well, everything is a mental issue
who one is, who one wants to be, everything that he feels and everything that he wants for himself and for the people around are mental issues

[Ming Yue]

Thing is Xebby...

you go to the beach and you see a huge fat person and for the first couple of seconds you think "man, that person is really big" and then you realize that person couldn't care less about what other people think and is playing with thier kids or throwing a frisbee or swimming in the ocean or getting a nice tan or laughing with friends or whatever and you gotta remember that it's all about how much you're getting out of your life, not what you look like doing it.

Don't be so critical of yourself, or by the time you're wise enough not to care anymore, you'll be too old to walk.


carpe diem, xebs.

:)


edit: I am the queen of run-on sentences

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
then you realize that person couldn't care less about what other people think and is playing with thier kids or throwing a frisbee or swimming in the ocean If fatso was inclined to do any of those things, then he wouldn't be a fatso. ;)

Have ya missed me?

[Ming Yue]

that's not always the case, you backwards wrong-hemisphere-livin' curmudgeon. There's lots of folks out there who manage to consume enough calories to stay fat despite getting out occasionally.











hell yea I missed ya.

:D

[MoreMisfortune]

thanx for the helpful words but
i think it was 2002, the last tiem i was shirtless at the beach after non stop bugging from me bro and me cousins...

i remember a chick looking at me with that "feeling sorry" for me look and another 3 or more cute chicks starring and doing a little laughs. after giving em a look of wtf and turning me back they laugh again

sure...
awesome time for me...

[Toby]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
can annyone explain the bio Chemistry from a NON atkins perspective? (Ie does the biochemistry reallly work the way atkins says it does, or is it all just medical/tech pshyco-babble?) I haven't read the thread, so apologies if this has been said:

(i) Body (muscles, internal organs, brain, etc) uses carbs for energy, protein for muscle building, fat is stored (when carbs are plentiful).
(ii) Remove carbs from diet - body starts to switch to another fuel source - stored fats. Takes a few days to adapt. Eat lots of protein so muscle wastage is minimised. Eat a bunch of (good - Atkins ignores this IIRC) fats. Adaptation should be pretty complete if the dieter follows a strict diet. A very high percentage of muscle fuel comes from ketones.

Does it work? I've got a book with a bunch of journal references that show the effectiveness of ketosis for fat loss. Is it optimal? Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind that "Atkins" isn't the only ketosis diet. Others may be more effective and suitable. South Beach is one IIRC? Bodyopus, etc, etc.

[Toby]

*Skims thread quickly*

Lol! OK, it's all been said :p.

[Royal Dragon]

He, he he, thanks anyway!! :p

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by MoreMisfortune
i remember a chick looking at me with that "feeling sorry" for me look and another 3 or more cute chicks starring and doing a little laughs. after giving em a look of wtf and turning me back they laugh again


You shoulda taken the opportunity to make one of them "Gracie in Action" tapes and challenged them right there on the beach.
"Xebby in Action".....YEAH!

And don't worry if you're squimish about hitting girls, you ain't gotta; all you gotta do is drop into guard and pull a triangle on 'em...
"Ain't laughing now are yah? SMELL THE XEBBY FUNK!"

When they pass out you can carry them up to the mountains with a case of beer and yer favorite slayer cd. Then you can make a sacrifice to the METAL GODS!

I hate takin my shirt off too, but i ain't gonna take any cr@p from people if I do.

[rubthebuddha]

this right here should be enough reason to not go atkins:

ass cancer (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/health/bal-te.meat12jan12,0,6784887.story?coll=sfla-news-health)

[Royal Dragon]

Good point. However in Atkin's defense, would a short term cycle of lets say 3 months, cause this?

LOL, just had a phone conversation with both of them. Pro Atkins says it BETTER for athletics becasue it stabalises blood sugar.

ER Nurse says she's nuts becasue the body can't convert fat to glucose efficiently, so we need it from our food, ESPECIALLY for athletic endevours.

Told this to Mrs. Pro Atkins, and she just don't belive it. :eek:

[Royal Dragon]

My Daughter's diet consited of a good breakfast of raw fruit, a lunch that was raw vEggies, and some sort of light meat, like a small amount of hamburger, or chicken. A light pre practice meal of rice and raw veggies, and a dinner of mostly all meats like fish, chicken and beef.

Breakfast would have eggs too form time to time, or she'd be snacking on mixed nuts or trail mix.

Then idea was alot of carbs from rich, raw plant sources early, little protine, and bt he end of the day it is reversed + a high carb meal right before her 4 hour workout.

She is strong, fast, well balanced with major endurance, and hardly ever gets sick.
What we feed her is almost the opposite of Atkins, but she's probably the healthiest person I know.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MoreMisfortune
thanx for the helpful words but
i think it was 2002, the last tiem i was shirtless at the beach after non stop bugging from me bro and me cousins...

i remember a chick looking at me with that "feeling sorry" for me look and another 3 or more cute chicks starring and doing a little laughs. after giving em a look of wtf and turning me back they laugh again

sure...
awesome time for me...

like I said, it's mental. What they think of you does not make you - what you think of you does. Shake them haters off, son.

[Royal Dragon]

Or, if ur not happy with yourself, change. Your a human for God's sake, Humans are the most adaptable creatures on the planet!!!

Be what you want to be!!

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Or, if ur not happy with yourself, change. Your a human for God's sake, Humans are the most adaptable creatures on the planet!!!

Be what you want to be!!

no they aren't

if you said animal.. I might agree, but dude, you should look at zooplanktin and aemebas... them ****s are everywhere....


lol ;)

[Vash]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
My Daughter's diet consited of a good breakfast of raw fruit, a lunch that was raw vaggies, and some sort of light meat, like a small amount of hamburger, or chicken. A light pre practice meal of rice and raw veggies, and a dinner of mostly all meats like fish, chicken and beef.

Breakfast would have eggs too form time to time, or she'd be snacking on mixed nuts or trail mix.

Then idea was alot of carbs from rich, raw plant sources early, little protine, and bt he end of the day it is reversed + a high carb meal right before her 4 hour workout.

She is strong, fast, well balanced with major endurance, and hardly ever gets sick.
What we feed her is almost the opposite of Atkins, but she's probably the healthiest person I know.

Fresh fruits + fresh veggies + nuts + clean meat = well balanced, nutritious, and delicious

[IronFist]

I haven't read this thread but if Toby or Ford posted I probably agree with whatever they said.

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by IronFist
I haven't read this thread but if Toby or Ford posted I probably agree with whatever they said.


mmk 'cause Toby said earlier that you bench like an old woman.

[norther practitioner]

a lunch that was raw vaggies ,and some sort of light meat,

so she goes either way is what you are saying....


thats kinda sick coming from her dad.. don't you think.

[Royal Dragon]

Ok you twistie, I fixed it!!

[norther practitioner]

sorry, vaggies is a nick we gave to the 18-20 year old college girls we used to pick up....

[Royal Dragon]

uh, yeah.................

[Toby]

Royal, if you really want to know in detail all about ketosis, get this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967145600/qid=1105680380/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/002-2162058-7518415). It's objective and written with athletes (specifically weightlifters) in mind. Bit technical for your liking by the sounds of it, but it really is excellent. I'd give it 4.9 stars (-0.1 because it has some minor typos and I'm pedantic). It's not only about ketosis - it's quite an interesting read about the body and exercise in general. Also extremely well-referenced.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
mmk 'cause Toby said earlier that you bench like an old woman.

Like I said, I agree with whatever he said :D

[Royal Dragon]

Toby,
Thanks, just ordered it off of amzon.com

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
mmk 'cause Toby said earlier that you bench like an old woman. I thought he said that Iron benched old women. It's where to grip that's the interesting part.

[Royal Dragon]

Had an interesting thought:

If loading a muscle makes it grow stronger, could loading internal organs do the same?

For example, my ER nurse freind says Atkins is bad because it over works the Liver and Kidneys. but if in general working a target strengthens it, could Atkin's diet improve the strength of the Liver and Kidneys if used in proper moderation? (Say a few weeks on, and a few off for recovery?)

Any thoughts guys?

[MoreMisfortune]

im going to the beach in carnival and doubt ill be any more confortable than usual

bak on topic
must i add, first
that ketosis is not present only on atkins and other diets
basicly... we all go in ketosis if we spend some time without food (or certain food, if you will)
this xebby here goes into ketosis usually from 2 to 3 hours (a little more, a little less) after eating - depeding on how much and/or what has been eaten AND what kind of activity im having at what intensity level for how much time
how does a xebby know?
glucosis goes down and ketonic breath comes up
BLING BLING
i do go on ketosis every day
but for a short while, cos then i eat, it stops, it comes back, i eat...
on oddkins he keeps it going for a long long time, mkay.

the liver
the liver is a very adaptable organ. yes it does "grow stronger" to withstand the extra stress its going under dude... BUT there is a limit to everything
there is a limit to how much punishment your liver can take
slowly slowly damaging - years (or decades or days or whatever, depends) later its quite damaged AND you might need a new one (or not)

[MoreMisfortune]

and oh yeah
if you do "condition" your liver by beating it up a few time it does adapt BUT just as muscles once that stress stops it "unadapts" bak to its normal
if he can that is, cos its super focked up it cant go bak to normal

ever heard of "hepatic cirrosis" (if thats how you mericans spell it)
a dude drinks a lot for years
until his liver goes "Hey dude, its hurting, stop that"
then he goes "I like me booze, i not stop, feels good to me psyche"
then the liver goes "Ok *****, if thats how you want it"
Then a while later the dude (and his liver) are in the hospital and then they die

[MoreMisfortune]

i type like this cos its fun
everybody can understand if they try a little harder
i been mistaken for stupid on elsewhere-lands for this habbits
pretty cool huh
:D

[Royal Dragon]

Pro Atkin's just sent me an E-mail saying she lost 10 pounds since starting her diet, and that was only Monday. How is this possible even WITH traininng her ass off (Which she is not)?? That's like 2 pounds a day!!

I haven't seen her, but I have a sneaky suspicion that she would look to be the same size if I did.

[MoreMisfortune]

i did lose some about 8-10 pounds on my first week too
wasnt aktins like i said and i wanst exercising

in the very first weeks you lose a lotta weight
its that initial shock over your system
later your system starts adapting and the whole thing goes slowly and slowly until you hit a plateu

[rubthebuddha]

she lost 10 pounds since starting her diet, and that was only Monday. How is this possible even WITH traininng her ass off? dehydration, potent diarrhea, etc. the issue is water loss typically with such significant drops in weight. ask a wrestler or boxer who has to make weight for a match or fight -- most who have trouble will do it by dropping a huge amount of water within a day or so.

[Royal Dragon]

She says she's drinking alot of water though.

[Toby]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
the issue is water loss typically with such significant drops in weight.3g of water are stored with every 1g of glycogen [Devlin 97]. So if your muscle and liver glycogen levels go down significantly (as they will on Atkins), you will appear to lose significant weight, irrespective of how much water you drink. You just **** the water out instead of storing it. The issue is distinguishing between water loss and fat loss.

Devlin, T.M., "Textbook of Biochemistry with Clinical Corrections 4th Ed.", Wiley-Liss, 1997.

[Royal Dragon]

So 10 pounds is actually the water/glycogen content of the muscles and liver? Wow!! I didn't know that.

So we are not looking at Fat loss, but muscle/Liver tissue "Shriveling up".

That explaines why noone I have seen on Atkins ever get's really lean looking, or even appears much smaller.

I'm guessing Debbie's original loss of 50 pounds has more to do with the fact that she was in the gym 3X a week, than her diet.

[MoreMisfortune]

as for getting lean looking
it depends i suppose

take me as an exemple that didnt get lean looking and didnt do atkins either
why i dont know

genetics?
old fattys hard to go? (*)
losing a buncha muscle along with the fatty so the proportion didnt change all that much that you wanted to? (though it did change it might not "been enough")

(*) what you must consider is that the fatty cells dont just die easily... thye "shrink" first for a while and after keeping up with the pain over em they finally die
"what you saying?"
thats how 1 day diets dont work, 3 days diet dont work... 7 days diet dont work
"whats that?"
once you go off of that short period diet of yours and get bakc to your "normal eating" those fatty cells recover (the huge majority of them hadnt actually died)
they recover and go YAYYYY!!! fatty time!!
and you gain weight fast bak again - chop chop

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, that's why I allways say life style changes are what is called for. Eat healthy, and exercise more (Which we get just from doing our arts)

[Toby]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
So 10 pounds is actually the water/glycogen content of the muscles and liver?If she lost 10lb, then it was 7.5lb water + 2.5lb glycogen.

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
I'm guessing Debbie's original loss of 50 pounds has more to do with the fact that she was in the gym 3X a week, than her diet. Word. That book'll emphasize the importance of exercise.

FWIW I followed some of the principles in the book I recommended. I altered my diet much further towards high protein and low carbohydrate. I cut potatoes, pumpkin, etc. But I still eat a tonne of fruit and vegies and drink a tonne of milk, so I never reached full-blown ketosis. I lost about 30lb and have kept it off. It's not water weight because I can pig out on carbohydrates for a couple of days and only put on a couple of kilos.

Also, I've posted before that one super-important factor was I eat a really high fibre cereal each day. Crapping can be hard as the protein goes up, especially if you're not eating enough greens.

[MoreMisfortune]

yeah
but you never really lose the taste
like ex-drug users still will experience desire for their drugs the ex-fat will continue to desire the food. it just doenst go away.
in a way you struggle against your instintcs and that is a *****

but it could/can be worse
that is when you get into intentional personality changing

[Royal Dragon]

Me, I eat the most nutritionally dense food first, ie raw fruites and veggies (Although I add a bit of protine at break fast).

Meats and protines after practice, or the last meal before bed because the body needs it's building blocks to regenerate and grow.

I have never been "Ripped", not even when I was 17 and doing 1000 sit ups a day. But my weight has allways been manageable prior to my back injury. since then, I have had alot of trouble getting back to the life style i led befoe that. I got out of shape,gained at least 50 pounds, adn just lost motivatipon due to a number of personal life altering difficulties in reacent years.

Now, I am down 25 pounds. it's stayed down too. I still don't train religiously anymore, but I eat less, and have gotten my diet back under controll. Although still NOT where it once was, my energy, strength, endurance and over all health are returing to normal a little bit at a time.

Atkin's or the "Low carb" diet was something that took me away from my goals. I tried it, gianed weight, and left it with the dinosaurs (extinction). When my diet is 50% fruites and veggis/50% animals, I do the best. So that is what I do.

[Royal Dragon]

She's all exited becuse she has a bad "taste" in her mouth. :rolleyes:

I can't tell her anything though, she lost too much weigth on it last time.

[Leimeng]

~ I lost 35 lbs in about two months with a modified lo-carg/atkins type of diet. My chemical balance all stayed good.
~ When I had some heart scares/problems a few years back, my cardiologist reccomended doing atkins.
~ The way I see it, some body types do real well with lo-carb, some do real bad. Some do real well with veggitarian, some do real bad. But, most vegetarians are only healthy for about three or four years, then they start to have other problems. Everybodies body chem is different.
~ Everything in moderation is the key. Eat well, but with lots of natural variety. Exercise some every day. Trust GOD.
~ Two sites with some interesting views:

http://www.beyondveg.com/
http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

Flatulo Ergo Sum --

5 days a week my body is a temple. The other two, it's an amusement park.

(***Insert Personal Wise A$$ed Comment Here***)