Defense against multiple jabs?

[Jeff Liboiron]

Hey guys i was training with one of my friends that does boxing, he asked me to show him how effective wing chun is against boxing style, so he jabbed and i nailed him like 6 times but when he did multiple jabs i had more trouble. Any thoughts?

[Martial Joe]

Jam him...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[S.Teebas]

yes, go forward...ALL THE TIME!

[rogue]

I hope you guys are kidding. :eek:

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[whippinghand]

Is the above post not a waste of bandwidth?

[ghoyd]

Intercept the first jab with an attack of your own (lin sil die dar), and then keep putting it to him.

If you are hitting him when his arm is still extended, he shouldn't be able to get the second one off.

I personally have a lot of luck with a split entry against the jab.

Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

[Jeff Brown]

why not bui ji into it, follow it back and tie it up? stick with that hand and its no longer effective. make him depend on the other hand, then tie that one up too.

then, move in and demo the chump!!

"Once I have harnessed the power of the Sun, I will be UNSTOPPABLE!" -- Mini-Me

[marcus_pasram]

Hi,

We've just added a technique on our site that shows one way we practice against jabs. Its just one way.

Wing Chun Kung Fu School NYC (http://www.wingchunnyc.com)
Goto technique sections ("vs Jab")

/Marcus

In America you can go on the air and kid the politicians, and the politicians can go on the air and kid the people.

[Spark]

Watch any pro boxer. They almost never launch a single jab. So take into consideration that a 'boxer' will probably pump out three or four solid, quick jabs. And chances are if you try a technique on the first jab, they'll recoil too quick and punch you in the face. ouch.

[old jong]

Wing Chun is not for "sparring". FIGHT HIM!...Kick,punch,grab,elbow,bui sau... :mad:

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[shaolinboxer]

Throw a lead hook over his jab.

"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat

[marcus_pasram]

Throw a lead hook over opponent's jab?

What if the opponent is taller and has a longer reach?

/Marcus

In America you can go on the air and kid the politicians, and the politicians can go on the air and kid the people.

[fa_jing]

My sifu will imitate boxing style (he has experience) when we spar. I find that I have to tan or pak his jab and then move in immediately. When he withdraws the arm it's time to control the elbow. I don't agree that you should throw a hook in response - straight beats curve, it is more direct. Here's one I haven't tried in sparring due to the large gloves we use: outer gate punch. Your straight punch comes slightly over his straight punch, forcing his arm down and landing a blow of your own in one motion. -FJ

[Sihing73]

Whipping Hand,

Are you referring to Rogues post in particular and if so is it the image or what he posted?

I have been unable to deveote as much time to the forum lately and am also trying to give everyoen a little more lattitude. If things start to go downhill then I will step in but so far it looks like everyoen is doing okay. For now.

As always feel free to e-mail me directly.

Peace,

Dave

[shaolinboxer]

I cannot comment to that within the realm of Wing Chun, as my knowledge of the style is limited.

However, there are many counters. The simplest, IMO, is a lead leg kick to the ribs.

"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat

[marcus_pasram]

Hi Lyle,

I agree with your follow up response. One of the techniques we've put up on our site deals with it just as you surmised ;).

Wing Chun School NYC (http://www.wingchunnyc.com) and navigate to teh techniques section. The one I'm referring to is the 3rd technique (vs Jab) on the first row.

Cheers,
Marcus

In America you can go on the air and kid the politicians, and the politicians can go on the air and kid the people.

[rogue]

Jeff, I don't know how good a boxer your friend is, but most don't throw a jab and not follow it up, was he holding back? One thing you could try would be to move to his outside if he's jabbing. Boxers are very good at fighting square on to someone and a good one will know how to work someone when in close or within the clinch.

Just be careful not to concentrate too much on that jab, it may be just the first shot of a nasty combination.

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[sumyoungdummy]

When sparring or fighting with a boxer timing is very important. You can trap and punch first before he throws his jab out if you are quick enough. Hopefully you would trap him on his blind side so that it would make it harder for him to hit you with a right cross after the jab. When you trap him you want to make sure that you trap his left jab well enough so that he won't be able to jab again. Once you trap and punch you have to give him a sensory overload so that he can play the defensive role and not the attacking role. You can also give him a low staight kick to his knee cap, or shin. This would cause distraction and may give you the time you need to close in the gap so that you can trap him and hit him. The kick if done correctly can either break his boxing structure, confuse him, create time or break his legs. You can also sweep the hell out of him if he's using a boxing stance. When you're practising with a friend you don't want to hurt him but you also want to show him that wing chun is very effective. You have to decide do you want to hurt him, show him or spar with him. Remember he's testing you out most likely he ain't pulling no punches. The challenge is to use your wing chun techniques, footwork, structure and theory agaisnt a boxer. If done correctly you can have the edge!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Jeff Liboiron]

Yeah my friend had a good jab, we weren't really sparring, he just wanted to show my how effective wing chun was, i gained his respect very quickly :-)

I have a very hard time sparring my friends cause i don't want to hurt them, and i'm also missing my right leg, so that makes it harder. I've been in 2 fights, and dropped the dudes fast, but fighting is not sparring really, there are no rules on the street.

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I hope you guys are kidding.
[/quote]

...who me? If so whats wrong with that? (i read your other post but it doesn't say why)

The way i see it, if your going forward all the time..lets say you meet the jab with a tan sau (easily converts to a punch) and then the boxer can, as you say, go for his combinations. But as soon as his hand goes back from the initial ajb....you are still going forward (mentally and physically), so you hand springs forward and BAM! you hit him. I have tried this in training and have had success. What fault do you see in this?


S.Teebas

[straight blast]

Multiple Jabs are easy to deal with. And I say this with experience. Watch his shoulder when he throws the 1st jab. I'm assuming that you're sparring, so you won't be trying to annihilate each other in the first 2 seconds. Watch the muscles in his shoulder. The telegraphing involved in the 1st punch is going to be almost exactly the same in the 2nd & 3rd. Plus (and the question has to be asked) how many boxers don't throw their multiple jabs to the same target?

Most lead (for example) with a jab to your jaw, followed by another couple fast ones to the same spot. Once he's thrown the 1st, you've got a pretty good chance of knowing exactly where the next one's going to be aimed. And if you know where he's going, you'll be able to give him a lovely surprise! Good luck surprising your friend
;)

"Through strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail"

[rogue]

Pretty good on the use of the jab SB, not bad advice either as long as that first jab doesn't connect. :D Good advice learning how to "read" the punch, being the holder during focus mitt training is a safe way to start.

Teebas, you and martial joe gave advice that was simplistic and disregarded any skills even an average boxer should have. I really don't know if you were offering real advice or just joking.

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[S.Teebas]

I see where you are coming from Rogue about my answer being simplistic. But WC is inherently designed to be just that! (simple) Of course there are countless variables that can eventaute from the jab....but i cant cover all of them on here.
You may have your own idea's of how WC guys will react to this (i dont know what training you have) but the WC i practice is not exaclty like the majority of mainsteam WC schools around...so i offer my take on it to maybe get people thinking about different possibilities.

That is all. :cool:


S.Teebas

[Gluteus Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Jam him... [/quote]

Yup. My preference is apricot. Otherwise honey is good (helps stick too).

Max

Yooby Yoody

[Gluteus Maximus]

Hi - I like that style you do (Ging-WaGang-Goolie-Goolie-Gollie-Gollie-Wash,sh-Ging-Gang-Goo, Ging Gang-Goo!). Seriously though (hard for me, so please bear with me) - is your lineage Chu Shong Tin?

Cheers,

Max

Yooby Yoody

[rogue]

I hear you Teebas about the WC simplicity and the number of variable any technique can have. No offense was meant, I thought maybe you guys were just trying to be glib.

I had some training in WC, but it was short and a long time ago. I was taking Muay Thai, Escrima and BJJ at the same time as the WC, something had to give and it was the WC. I also have some time put in at various JKD schools and that also has exposed me to some elements of WC. Recently I've been working out with two WC players every once in a while which is great fun. One day after I've achieved certain goals, I hope to revisit Wing Chun.

Jeff, if you don't mind me asking, how does your additional variable effect your training and techniques?

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Jeff Liboiron]

additional variable?

[S.Teebas]

No offence taken! I like to hear other peoples ideas...hey, if it works i'll use it!


S.Teebas

[cha kuen]

For all interested in Vcds on the PAN NAM lineage of wing chun, email me at

"pkduong@ucsd.edu"

I can get you a whole set:
SLT, chum kil, bil tse, dummmy, butterfly knives and staff. I will NOT BE CHECKING THIS POST so don't be lazy and reply with questions on this board. I will not check them. Email me if you are serious.

[rogue]

Jeff, sorry I fell into using jargon, "additional variable" is a phrase that a group of martial arts friends use for any temporary or permanant injury that may impede our training or use of certain techniques, in my case it's my back, in his case his arthritis, in another it's a missing eye. In other words one more thing to consider that the average joe doesn't need too.

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Martial Joe]

I did not read much of the replies after i said "Jam him..."

Anyway...
Think of the the words "multiple jabs".
If you jam him he cant make that single jab a multiple jabs...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Jeff Liboiron]

well missing my leg effects my kicking and footwork, my foot work isn't good, so i duck, and use lots of blocks.

It also effects my kicking, so i can't kick high. But in a fight i'd rather kick the guy in his knee, than in his head.

I have a hard time sparring because of the rules. I can't strike the throat, eye's, or kneecap and can't use my artificial leg to kick the guy with. I have been in 2 fights and won easily, but sparring is harder because of all the regulations and my disability.

[cobra]

Don't stand there and think, go forward and attack, try out your chain-punching and footwork.

Just my 4 cents!!

[rogue]

Jeff, how does your school practice fighting?

http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/images/museumshop.jpg

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban soon to be getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Jeff Liboiron]

well i'm self taught, but when i first started, i joined a wing chun club, but then i left bacause i hated my sifu.

for myslef i did chi sau, and one step sparring, you know, someone does 4 or 5 punches at you while you defend and on the 5th you counter back. That's what i did because it suited me.

The other students went full out fighting.

[Jeff Brown]

It's too bad you initially found a sifu that wasn't what you wanted, but my two cents: find one you can work with and stick with it. books and videos are great (all my sarcastic comments notwithstanding), but someone with a lot of experience can be much greater.

If the next guy has doubts about you b/c of your leg, just tell him flat out that it's a reality you are used to and you WANT to learn Wing Chun.

"Once I have harnessed the power of the Sun, I will be UNSTOPPABLE!" -- Mini-Me

[Shadowboxer]

Practice Yut Fuk Yee - one hand bridges two.

[wingchunalex]

use tan da, my sifu learned scientific boxing from the age of 9 all the way through his teen years. he advises useing tan da and holding your center. just let the jabs rickashay (sorry sp) off your fighting posture. just holding your center (with only a 1-3 inch adjustment if neccesarry) should protect you well. also lop da his jab or his lead arm for an offence.

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[shaolinboxer]

That is not how I would do it. :)

"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat

[joy chaudhuri]

"I cannot comment to that within the realm of Wing Chun, as my knowledge of the style is limited.
However, there are many counters. The simplest, IMO, is a lead leg kick to the ribs."
--------------------------------------
Hi Lyle: A good jabbing boxer's jabs are faster than legs. Also if the boxer has any street experience whatsoever (Duran, Tyson, Graziano etc)
they will know what to do with the lead leg. They also protect their ribs fairly well. Also it is a
mistake for a wing chun person to lead with his leg unless it is a sure shot. Joy Chaudhuri

:eek:

[shaolinboxer]

That is true, and it is untrue.

"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat