Unusual weapons forms?

[BeiTangLang]

I am familiar with the basics of mantis weaponry (swords/staffs/knives, etc), but does your families system have a form that uses an unusual weapon?

(elk-horn knives, hammers, etc?)

Just curious of if you do & if you know the origin of the form.

Thanks,
BTL

[seung ga faat]

Melon Hammers and Hard Iron Whip.
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[BeiTangLang]

Very cool,....
Do you know the Chinese names for the forms & any origins of them? (what lineage are they common in & how old the forms are?)

Thanks for answering so quickly!
~BTL

[GermanMantis]

We've also got the Chat Sing Seung Cheui - Seven Star Double-Hammers. Nice form. But i haven't seen the ironwhip nor do i know this weapon.

[monkeyfoot]

double cane
double 7 star hammers
9 section steel whip
2 sectional staff
war fan

ill get some names of forms soon for you.....but now im going to bed.

craig

[LawClansman]

Greetings and Happy new year guys,
No time to get on the fourm much but I stop by when I can. Just wanted to mention that Chiu Chi Man had several unusual weapons he taught. Aside from the Hammers and Iron Whip sword there is also double cresent spear (short) double spear (short), some unique technique on the needles, short tapered staff, short trident (thin tong), as well as the chain whip, flying plummet, fan, chopsticks and a few more in addition to the more conventional weapons. Check out the weapons at the back of the pic.


PS: hey Othal, email me;
sevenstarmantis@hotmail.com

[humble-one]

Chop sticks sounds cool does anyone have any more info on this form?

[Three Harmonies]

Monkey foot
Tell us more about the two section staf please! I have always wanted to learn this weapon!
Jake

[GermanMantis]

I've seen a partnerform with the two-section-staff on a HK demonstration. I think it was against speer. Nice techniques.
I like to hear more about needles and Chop sticks :)
Greetings
Chris

[Tainan Mantis]

My Shifu of Northern Shaolin, Wang Shuming, taught the chopsticks.

There was no form.
A plate of thin wood was leaned against the wall and students perdfected the method of throwing the chopstick to puncture the wood and get it buried halfway.

The chopsticks were real, not some weapon, but something from a nice restuarant. All disposable.

About 2 or 3 guys could make it threw the wood on every throw.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
My Shifu of Northern Shaolin, Wang Shuming, taught the chopsticks.

There was no form.
A plate of thin wood was leaned against the wall and students perdfected the method of throwing the chopstick to puncture the wood and get it buried halfway.

The chopsticks were real, not some weapon, but something from a nice restuarant. All disposable.

About 2 or 3 guys could make it threw the wood on every throw.

I've seen this done before and it's amazing. I never could figure out how they were doing it. The skeptical part of me assumed there was a trick in the wood or the chopstick. . . .

As for the "two-section" staff I assume it a long staff with a shorter staff attatched by a chain at one end?

[BeiTangLang]

How many of them had their origins within the system & how many were "borrowed" :) From other systems?

Any clue to how old these weapon forms might be?

Thanks for all the replies BTW, I find the "Exotics" an interesting subject.

~BTL

[Oso]

I thought the general consensus was that all the mantis weaponry was from outside sources. ????

[shirkers1]

Oso I believe that all of the 7 star weapon forms were borrowed or adapted. As for other mantis styles I'm not sure. My teacher speaks highly of the taiji mantis weapon sets.


I started to learn the chain whip but never finished it. I was going to pick up the bench form but ended up not even starting it. I really just wanted weapons I would actually be able to use if need be, like the stick, staff, and daggers. But now in my old age I would like to pick up some more. :)

[BeiTangLang]

Originally posted by Oso
I thought the general consensus was that all the mantis weaponry was from outside sources. ????

Um,...yeah,....but _Which one_(What system) would be what I'm shooting for here,..:) Sorry for not being more specific earlier.

IMHO, knowing what system the weapon form came frome can give an idea on the way the form should feel/look. Just like knowing from what family of mantis a form comes from can affect the way one interprets the movement "feel"/execution.

[mantis108]

I am not a weapon guy. So I don't know that much weaponary like others in my style. GM Chiu has a very extensive weaponry curriculum. Basically there are 5 categories:

Long: Spear, staff, harper, etc...

Short: Sword, Saber, hooks, Tonfa, etc...

Hard: Usually defensive such as the shield or something you can wear on the body such as the iron rings or studded wrist band, etc.

Flexible: Nanchakus, 3 sections, whip Chains, rope dart, etc...

Projectile/concealed: Archery, Darts, chops sticks (throwing), knives, etc...

There are regular weapons and odd weapons in these categories.

I am more a big fan of knives ever since I saw the movie Musa the Warriror. The only guy that lives in end of the movie was the Archer who would use throwing knives as well. My theory is that Archers are like snipers. They depends on marksmanship which relies on keen observation and quick decision making skills. Most of the time they have to be stealth and patience is everything. Now that's discipline. ;) Besides you can get close or stay at long range with knives. So, I rather have a knife (concealed) than other weapon.

In this date and age, besides firearms, I think the best way to equipe yourself is a jacket, belt, keys and a knife without getting yourself into too much trouble. BTW, steel toes boots and halmets are good too if you are working in construction. lol... That's my take on "exotic" weaponry.

Mantis108

[Oso]

ok, I see, take it back to the style of origin to get the original flavor.

wasn't slandering that concept, btw. I mean, most everything in mantis was borrowed in the beginning.


Robert: your description of weapon classification is almost exactly like my old hung gar teacher's was.

Stick (long or short)
Edged
Flexible
Paired

[CCY mantis]

I am not sure what other styles he studied, but I was told by my teacher that Li San Jin added the hook swords and the jien set high noon sword. I think he was a body guard for merchant caravans and probably well versed in kung fu even before he learned mantis. I have heard his nickname was lightening fist Li, or hook sword Li. There is no written record of who added what forms from that time period. In my family system we have a couple of weapon sets that were probably adapted from other systems. This is the natural evolution of kung fu.

[yu shan]

Mantis 108

LOL, you just had to mention steel toed boots! You stole my thunder ;)

I`ve been lucky to have been taught some nice weapons, long list and continuing to add to.

The most unusual was a weapon hand made by a crazy a s s student named howie. A 36" blow dart gizzmo. Very sweet and extremely accurate. At 60 feet, I can get within one inch of target, and 30 feet straight up bullseye. I have no idea where howie learned how to make this precision weapon. If I were to practice, I could probably get better. BTW, the needles are about 4 inches long and penetrate well.

[devout]

chopsticks sound great... one question though... are they thrown end over end-like a knife- or in a manner similar to a dart?

as an interesting aside, my brother and I used to play a game when we were kids back in the swamp involving my father's radial saw blades. We threw them into the fence (that was the game) and at $70 a pop you could imagine my father was none to pleased.

[EarthDragon]

In 8 step, master Wei used something called a sun and moon ring, or moon and star, that slipped over the middle finger and jutted out at both ends... But I have heard this was a popluar weapon in china. but rarely hear about.........


Tainan,
this Shu ming that you spoke about.. Is he the qigong master shuming from Beijing? I have a tape of him form my qigong teacher, that features him doing some incredible demonstrations at the park were he used to teach for free.. heavy set man with grey hair worn in a brushcut and always wore brown outfits.....

[FEELERSTRIKE]

CCY I agree with you about the addition of the hook swords , It would seem that the main mantis weapons came into the system from being either personel weapons or military weapons from an age when they were used as a major part of life

[monkeyfoot]

As for the "two-section" staff I assume it a long staff with a shorter staff attatched by a chain at one end?

Hey man. The two section staff is much like a nunchuku (sp?) but the difference being that the chinese 2 sectioned staff has a longer chain as oppose to the japanese nunchuku.

The weapon you are talking of is called a goong which is actually a family weapon (surname being goong).

On the point of blowdarts. I used to go hunting with my own 40 cal blowpipe back in the day. They are extremly accurate and have a suprisingly long range (shooting mine at a 45 degree angle would get about 75 yards distance). The best size no doubt is about 7 foot as the power and accuracy is doubled as oppose to a simple 4 foot barrel - although the latter is much more suited to stealth.

If anyone wants info on how to make these then give me a shout because I have a fair few years behind me with them.
craig

[yu shan]

A friggen 7 foot blowdart?!?! You think a four foot or smaller is not good? And what do you hunt? Sorry for so many questions. These weapons interest me. I`d like to hear more about if your game.

[Tainan Mantis]

Chopsticks thrown like a dart over the shoulder.
Movement similar to throwing a fast ball.

Wang Shuming is from Beijing but came to Tainan in 1949.

[Oso]

we used to make blowguns and darts almost from scratch.

the blowguns would be made out of a plant called queen of meadow (gravel root or joe pye weed) this is a plant that can grow up to 10' feet tall and has a punky foam looking center to the stalk that can easily be hollowed out. it can be a very straight stalk, ideal for blowguns.

we would take another plant called dogweed and rub it out to get some strong narrow fibers to braid into a narrow twine.

then taking this twine we would next use thistle puffs to make the fletching on the only storebought item we used: bamboo skewers. some of us made some w/ natural twigs.

pretty accurate out to about 50'. never thought I could make a clean kill on a rabbit or squirrel so i didn't try.

but now we are straying waaaay OT and BTL is gonna lay a smack down on us....

unless.....

I have an old document, on deerskin, stating that the cherokee's had developed their own mantis style of martial arts that was centered around the use of blowguns made from queen of meadow....yea, that's the ticket....:D

[mantis108]

Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder, man. :D

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the interesting info.

Warm regards

Robert

[yu shan]

No problem Mantis 108, I wear steel toed boots for work. I have often wondered how they could kick some cr*p.

Nice story Oso, I`ll bring my blow dart gizzmo when I come over for New Years. Maybe we should shoot before beer...

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Years ago I worked construction with a guy that had no fight training (other than drinking too much). He showed me a fighting technique he developed on his own where he shuffled his feet (with steel toed boots) while throwing punches. He would target the lower shins and he said he won a lot of fights that way. Looked really weird though.

We also made blowguns when I worked at a company that made electrical heating elements. We would take the tubes that the elements were made from and make darts with sewing pins and cigarettte filters. Peel the paper off the filter and push a pin or needle through it. Then melt the inside end and squeeze it down tight on the pin. Only thing I ever hunted with it was the mouse in my apartment kitchen. :)

EarthDragon
I've seen that weapon before. I believe Mimi Chan learned it and may have performed it at a tournament in the past.

In Wah Lum we use the Di So Gee (Large Sweeper), a long stick with a short stick attached to one end. We also have Fire Wheels which I haven't learned yet. I believe yu shan may have learned it though.

[yu shan]

Yeah, I was the first to slice my arm open! MC got a good laugh out of that! :D

[Shaolin Dude]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
In 8 step, master Wei used something called a sun and moon ring, or moon and star, that slipped over the middle finger and jutted out at both ends... But I have heard this was a popluar weapon in china. but rarely hear about.........


is it emei daggers?

[monkeyfoot]

Hey people

Yes a 7 foot blowpipe. Like I said 4 foot isnt enough. To the guy who said he wasnt sure whether it would be straight kill - it wont. You are basically aiming for the heart or lungs with rabbits, pheasants and most other things as this will be the quicker death as oppose to a gut wound.
The standard 9 inch darts i used went straight through a cadburys roses tin from 15 feet away so dont worry about whether it will go through the rabbit.

Anyway a list of things i used to hunt behind my girls house were -

rabbits
pheasent
squrriels
rodents / rats
and once i was out for 9 hours learning to hunt on my own and i saw something that looked like a small dog. i chased it but it ran. i hadnt a clue what it was because i had never seen one before but i assumed it was a wild cat or dog or something as it was dark and i couldnt see.

then one day i was sitting by a small cliff just watching the water and to the side of me something caught my eye - a munt jack!
These are rare deer that were brought over from china years ago to england and they were known as the 'deer of the deep'.
This was the most beautiful animal i had ever seen. I could have taken a shot and killed it but i was too taken back by the fact that such a timid animal trotted right past me knowing i was there.
That really got me into nature and was one of the things that got me on the road to being at one with nature. Just the sheer fact that it treated me like i wasnt a threat and just carried on.


Craig