Long Staves

[Oso]

I need to find some straight, not tapered, staves in the 7-8 foot range.

anyone got any sources?

[Reggie1]

I've heard trees are very good.


:D :D :D

I just couldn't help myself.

[red5angel]

are you in a hurry? If not Reggie is sort of right, go out and hit the woods in your area. It takes a while but you get used to looking. When I apprenticed out to that bowyer, I had to do this all the time. Usually you have to let the stuff dry out a little first so it may not be exactly what you're looking for.

[David Jamieson]

made of what?

rattan? oak? waxwood?

many of these are 6 feet in length and there is a selection of untapered staffs.

http://www.martialartsmart.net/jostaff.html

[MasterKiller]

He needs bigger than 6 feet. 7 to 8 feet, like those crazy-long Southern poles.

[red5angel]

ooh, good point. When I saw "staves" I thought of the rough uncut version, thinking he wanted to make his own or something.

[David Jamieson]

The waxwoods are 84" which is 7 feet.

[Oso]

I've got a really tall 15 year old...like 6'4" but his arms are looooong.

'back in the day' ;) when I trained hung gar in a yard, we would go cut our own staves. also, my teacher had a stand of bamboo and we would cut those and fight with them and the match would be over when someone no longer really had a staff anymore. splinters and small cuts were a *****!

the 7' staves are tapered.


just talked to a specialty woodworker who can make me some octagonal staves of ash any length I need....no price yet.

[Starchaser107]

"'back in the day' when I trained hung gar in a yard, we would go cut our own staves. also, my teacher had a stand of bamboo and we would cut those and fight with them and the match would be over when someone no longer really had a staff anymore. splinters and small cuts were a *****!"

Isn't that more a testament to the strength of the bamboo and not the skill of the fighter:confused: ?

[Jotaro Joestar]

Try going to Home Depot, Lowes, or a lumber yard and look for 7 or 8 ft white pine rods (typically used for curatin rods).

[Oso]

no, I suck at kung fu and especially staff fighting, it was pretty much just a silly anecdote.

bamboo is not resistant to crushing blows perpendicular to the grain though. They would splinter up pretty quickly

[David Jamieson]

rattan is springy and won't break.

any dowel you get made of hardwood will snap like a twig when you use some force. The grain is where it will break with any significant contact. I've gone through many a dowel in this way.

So, really heavy oak or ash will last long. Rattan will last real long. Waxwood is springy too.

If the guy is just learning, then a dowel from the woodstore will do in teh meantime I think and for sure this is the cheapest and quickest alternative to getting the thing in hand.

[norther practitioner]

yeah

what jotaro said....

[Oso]

Originally posted by Jotaro Joestar
Try going to Home Depot, Lowes, or a lumber yard and look for 7 or 8 ft white pine rods (typically used for curatin rods).

they would be fine for just form work and are cheap too. but, I'm trying to get something that will look better at demo's and not immeidately break in staff sparring.

that will be where we go in the meantime while I source something nice.


ultimately I'd love to find a source for some turned waxwood longer than 6'.

[Oso]

now there was some crossposting :)


I have an octagonal staff given to me as a gift by some students when I left my last school. I think it's ash but I'm not sure. It's nice and if it hadn't ridden around in the back of my truck for several years, it'd still be straight too.


rattan: I don't like sparring w/ rattan...too whippy. Hard to do chin na with it.

and, I dunno about staves, but I just bought 40 of Century's nicest (most expensive) rattan arnis stick and have broken a dozen of them in training...snapped. I don't remember this being the case years ago when I could keep a set of stick for quite a while before replacing them. so, I'm skeptical about what may be happening to the rattan market.

[David Jamieson]

arnis sticks are much thinner and they tend to break easy.

If you can get the graphite rods for this you will notice a longer lasting arnis stick and a general higher quality in the composite.

Longer thicker rattan is better than that used in kali or arnis. Too thin. I know a few guys who tape them up until they have to get new ones.

[Oso]

screw this kung fu crap...I'm gonna just get me some of this action and POW you guy's will all be crispy critters

http://bardwood.com/index.htm

[Jotaro Joestar]

By The Sword (http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Wasters.html) has an 8 foot long hickory staff for $41, but its hickory.

[Oso]

great link, thanks.

that at least provides a base price for me when I go talk to this custom woodworker.

been poking around google but all the biggies have the same items WLE, Century, AWMA, MAMART.

looked for some hung gar specific stuff as we used to use a 9' long pole.

[David Jamieson]

uh, oso, I know they say thopse are magic wands, but I think that's a front for home whittled sex toys really.

[rogue]

The heck with rattan sticks, hardwood mop handles at Lowes $5. You can cut to whatever size you want and usually make two. We've been breaking staffs like crazy lately.

[red5angel]

The waxwoods are 84" which is 7 feet.

how would you know?! that's not even metric!!! :D

[David Jamieson]

red, It's because when I was growing up, Canada was in mid switch, so all the kids in my gen know imperial measures and metric measures.

coincidentally, this is teh same generation that is coming to power in the next 10 yrs or so.

Better prepare for the standards to go up a bit. :D

[tug]

Isn't there a 10ft. pole form in WC?

[David Jamieson]

...well, except for the keyboarding and editing thing that is. :p

[David Jamieson]

I've read that the dragon pole of WC can be up to 13 feet long!

But unweildy in modern practical terms methinks.

[red5angel]

red, It's because when I was growing up, Canada was in mid switch, so all the kids in my gen know imperial measures and metric measures.

LOL! I was just teasin'

You Canadians will NEVER gain control!!!! It's too fukking cold up there for your brains to work properly, the behaviour on this forum proves it beyond a refutable doubt!

[David Jamieson]

The colder a nation is, the more industrious it's people are.

the hotter a nation is, the more lax it's people are.

Canada is the second largest in land area on the planet, and yet population wise, we are one of the smallest countries on teh planet.

How do we do it? We are diligent, deteremined and ****ed if we don't do work everyday.

Struggle is what makes the air seem fresher, the sun brighter and a kiss from even an ugly girl quite nice. :p

[norther practitioner]

I read that as Canadians don't do it enough to have enough people to relax a bit....

[red5angel]

Canada is the second largest in land area on the planet

most of it covered in snow and ice!




How do we do it? We are diligent, deteremined and ****ed if we don't do work everyday.

and you have to stay warm somehow. In minnesota we do it by breeding ;)




Struggle is what makes the air seem fresher, the sun brighter and a kiss from even an ugly girl quite nice.

and there are tons of those! Ive seen them!

[David Jamieson]

quote:
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Struggle is what makes the air seem fresher, the sun brighter and a kiss from even an ugly girl quite nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



and there are tons of those! Ive seen them!


That's because you're american. :D

[Yum Cha]

Hi,
We use mostly long staves in our training, and its hard to find ones at that length that don't break, having broken a few and seen numerous others broken over the last 20 years of training, here's my rant on staves....

Short staves, ones as tall as you or shorter, can be thinner, as they are used differently and the ratio length to width keeps them firm. I like short Rattan staves, cause they are whippy, but we've never been able to get one to last.

Medium staves, like those natural ones that are thick at one end, and thin at the other by growth, are pretty good for that style of fighting, but the tips break on foot attacks, and even on big downward attacks.

Long staves, ones longer than your upstretched arm, the kind often called "Fishing Poles" or "Left Handed" poles are usually held at one end only and "Fenced" with. Or additionally, used in masses, like infantry.

30mm diameter staves are nice and flexible, but can simply shatter in your hands with any force. I think most commercial short staves are around 30mm.

We had a 40mm pine staff nicknamed the log, but it broke bouncing it off the ground. It was nice. Lasted the longest so far.

Now we have these just under 50mm staves, and they're holding up. Made of Tasmanian Oak. - its lighter than English Oak, but you know you're holding a bloody great staff, no doubt.

It has little flex, but you can use it with no restraint. For the long staff foot/elbow bouncing attack, it has enough "action" to make it work. It is a little much for some of the smaller guys though.

So, I would recommend between 40 and 50mm, depending on how it feels in your hands, and how much muscle you want to put into it.

I know, they seem heavy, and big in the hand, but its good for your training. You ever pick up a regular staff, and you're faster, more powerful and it seems so easy.

It also makes you strong enough to pick up a shovel, and other natural weapons, should the need ever arise.

Its also fun training with a weight lifting bar, but that's OT.

Sycamore (sp) has also been recommended.

Hickory has to be a good choice too, but not common here in Oz.

Lumber yards carry a range of "Rods" usually, they are often used as curtain rods, but they also have other commercial uses.

Ours carry them in lengths that need to be cut down, and in widths up to probably 60mm.... Get in there and hand pick the best one. A lot cheaper than the commercial option.

Sand them down, give them a hot coat of varnish, sand again and oil.

[GeneChing]

The reason it's hard to get long staves is because of the price of shipping in the USA. Once you get past 84", you have to pay extra to ship oversize. That pretty much prices us out of the market. It's much cheaper to find longer staves locally then to pay for shipping. Sometimes, we actually get shipments of long staves in that we have to cut down to meet shipping requirements. We will sell these for pick up orders, but not for mail - it's just way too much of a hassle, especially if it needs to be returned for some reason. But every city has a lumber yard, so that's where you should go.

[Oso]

yea, I figured that was part of it.


already contracted a guy to make me some out of ash. He said he could make me 6 in probably less than 2 hours and just charge me time and materials.

[yu shan]

Oso

I`d be interested in getting in on this. Let me know.

[Oso]

I'd planned on it.

Let me get the first 6 done so I can establish a baseline price.

the will be hexagonal, not round...turning something like that down would be really time intensive. i.e. expensive.

but, I've been using a hex staff for a while now and i like it just fine.