am i the only one that saw ca had an earthquake

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yesterday i was watching cnn in the hospital and i read that ca had an earthquake on one of those news postings accross the bottom. it said that it was a 4.5 and that no one was injured. i waited and waited after that to hear more about it, but it never even made the postings again once they started recycling.

did anyone else see this?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

its listed here about 5 down:

http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/qed/qed.html

so im not crazy, it did happen. maybe its not considered all that big of news compared to what else has been going on, but i think its another thing to add to the list. the apocalypse is coming and sinners best repent.

[Ming Yue]

a 4.5 in california is barely enough to make the news. When I lived in the SF bay area we'd just surf through the little ones and go about our business.

[David Jamieson]

The apocalypse has occured in every age with every generation.

You should probably repent anyway regardless. :)
Your time is gonna come.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Your time is gonna come. I just hope it's not in the face.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lol.

seriously though .... all this extreme weather, globally, has got me a little concerned. not so much for the imminent end of life as we know it, but that these may be the first signs of something bigger. it's probably just our planet being a planet like they said on msnbc, but it's just a lot to take in with 4 hurricanes hitting florida, volcanic erupptions, we are working on our 3rd flood in the ohio valley (second one last week didn't come in our basement by inches luckily), global flooding, tornadoes in brazil, earthquakes, brush fires in australia, and of course the tsunami. i know im missing a bunch of other stuff too.

i don't have any love for hippys, but im not a fan of ****ting where i sleep either. whether related or not, i think this would be a good time to start looking at how we treat our planet.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

..... call it the day after tomorrow syndrom :).

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity


i don't have any love for hippys, but im not a fan of ****ting where i sleep either. whether related or not, i think this would be a good time to start looking at how we treat our planet.

I agree, I do what I can because I believe it's the right thing to do, but it's a drop in a big bucket. I still think we're evenutally doomed as a species. Good news is, unless the core solidifies, or the sun implodes, the planet will be just fine without us.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah that pretty much sums it up.

[Oso]

hey, did anyone else here the rumor that the earth got knocked hard enough to stop it's spin for just a splecond during the 9 in the pacific?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1309926/posts

[MasterKiller]

The spin didn't stop, but it wobbled.

[norther practitioner]

It was supposed to speed up the rotation a little bit.. no biggie...
we slow down more than that every year.....


**** moon.

[David Jamieson]

But...We like the moon (http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/)

:D

[tug]

Anyone hear about the landslide in La Conchita, CA? I don't think it's related to the quake, but sh!t is happening.

[SifuAbel]

i felt the fontana quake all the way out here in riverside.

two quick rumbles and it was done.

[red5angel]

seriously though .... all this extreme weather, globally, has got me a little concerned.

Actually GDA, this is all well within normal parameters.

A little tidbit of interesting information: Sometime over the summer I was reading a small article about what sort of weather we were supposed to get overthe winter, based on the tracking of el nino/la nina patterns. they predicted a cold dry winter in minnesota - so far this has been accurate. they predicted a wet west coast, also true.
This yearI just think **** is happening all at once. It's true some of this stuff may be created due to contributions by man, I read the article about sound blasting around where the big earthquake struck possibly causing it. I have my doubts, but believe it's a possibility.
Either way you have to keep in persepctive a few things, first, psychologicaly this has been a past couple of years on the planet in general. Second, we're able to track and report events like this faster and more accurately and our sensationalist media tends to play all of these events for the most effect. all of these things are naturaly occuring events and aren't occurring in unnatural numbers.

[David Jamieson]

red has taken the correct and spun it like a twister into the ozone layer.

It's true that we are just more hyper aware of weather systems because of the ubiquitous sources for information about it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah i guess that's true. this is why i never watch the news ... im about as gullible as they come.

i only started watching the news cause of the tsunami coverage and now it passes the time in the hospital waiting rooms.

that said we still need to take better care of **** of course.

[red5angel]

of course, my only nitpicky bit is that we need to understand why. George Carlin said it best "The planet ain't goin' anywhere...we are."

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

oh i agree a hundred percent with what you and ming are saying in that regard ... i just wonder who all were taking with us. like monkeys. it would be terrible if we killed all the monkeys.

[red5angel]

I'm down with the monkeys. But like all things, we all come and we all go, and so to shall the monkeys. amen.

[Oso]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
oh i agree a hundred percent with what you and ming are saying in that regard ... i just wonder who all were taking with us. like monkeys. it would be terrible if we killed all the monkeys.

and bunnies

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by red5angel
Actually GDA, this is all well within normal parameters.'Actually' as in 'really' or 'factually'? Funny, I don't remember your name on the list of guest speakers at the UNEP seminars I've been to. So presumably you can give us a link to the basis of these facts...?

While many many people a lot closer to source data than you are seem to believe there is substantial evidence for global warming, there is no definite proof. So can you please show us your more definite evidence that is presumably more reliable than NASA's, the Pentagon's*, the UNEP's, and well, just about most other people who have actually studied, analysed and collated the data?

First of course, you can tell us 'normal parameters' of what? Do you mean normal parameters for a natural, unnassisted-by-man temperature flux? In which case, I hope you have some warm socks, cos regardless of the cause, I personally don't trust my government or anyone else's to provide much protection in another Ice Age.

And let's say that the increase by half of CO2 production since 1860, similar data for SOx, NOx and Carbon Monoxide don't actually effect the earth's ecosystems in any way, let's say that the worst case scenario is wrong... there is no global warming, and we are not witnessing the beginning of the collapse of civilization as we know it due to ignoring man-made ecological destruction, desertification, pollution, acidification, habitat destruction and biodiversity destruction...

But then, what if you were wrong?

If these crackpot scientists who say there is global warming are right, what have we got to lose...? We have to compromise our lifestyles a little (in ways which let's face it, will probably lead to a more sustainable and equitable economic base than the post-capitalist society we live in now which is carelessly squandering its capital and that of say GDA's daughter and grandaughter).

If they are right, and we continue pretending they aren't, we're all dead through civil wars, world war, increasing terrorism and global environmental meltdown.

I'd prefer to look stupid and support the ones who say we should slow down...!

When you are doing your search for evidence (definite is maybe to tall an order, but it had better be good!) to shoot me down in flames, I suggest you look for things like world grain production, as well as the usual temperature rises, CO2 increases etc. Happy hunting.

And GDA, if you're gullible, you sure as hell don't wanna be listening to anyone with the same access to info as you on the internet over a bunch of crackpot scientists...! :D For Adora's sake.

*Before anyone says it, I know the Pentagon didn't say there ARE going to be these events, and I know they research anything that may have an effect on US security, but at the same time a couple of years ago they were with Bush in paying it all no attention (and even supportive), but their policy has done a u-turn enough to spend a lot of money on it... go figure.

[Mr Punch]

Oh, and **** bunnies! :mad:









:D

[David Jamieson]

I understand that global warming can also be attributed to it being the end of teh last ice age. As in, we are still at teh tale end of it and entering into a warming epoch which will cycle out and back into yet another ice age.

However, I would also add that we are at a plateau stage in accordance with the models I've seen. Meaning, teh warm period is lasting longer than it did in previous cycles according to the model.

I do think that we will either evolve and change or become extinct ourselves eventually and new forms of life will arise from this. As apparently is shown in all models of how the earth has been going over the last few billion years.

Still, I guess we can't be 100% sure of much at this point simply because our ability to measure these things is relatively new and models are built on recent data and educated guesses more than hard facts and precepts.

just sayin

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
However, I would also add that we are at a plateau stage in accordance with the models I've seen.Which models?
I do think that we will either evolve and change or become extinct ourselves eventually and new forms of life will arise from this...Philosophically that's very cool. But practically, we need to find a way to stop over-use of resources and the resulting imbalance in wealth distribution and ongoing global conflict... don't we?! Evolution, and its handmaiden 'survival of the fittest' sound cool, especially to me as one of the fittest, but it is the same kind of logic that would say, well I guess we can condone rape because women are weaker, and because it makes the survivors stronger. An extreme example, but funnily enough, I don't see the rate of environmental technology evolving at anywhere near as fast a rate as the technologies which allow us to redistribute resources from other people as we see fit. The environment IS the same agenda. And the deterioration of the environment is becoming irreversible, and the swansong of unrealistic post-capitalism.
Still, I guess we can't be 100% sure of much at this point simply because our ability to measure these things is relatively new and models are built on recent data and educated guesses more than hard facts and precepts.So what you're saying is we need more research?! (http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/10/06/no-longer-obeying-orders/) :rolleyes: (Try about a third down).

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

so what do we do?

i mean a lot of us recycle and all that, which is great, but we'll be recycling all the way up until the apolcalypse.

[Serpent]

Now you've just got me worrying about the monkeys.

[Oso]

consumer recycling is a feel-good thing for the people. It's the bigger companies that need to do that for it to be of any real good to us.

anyone else see Penn & Teller's bit on recyclying? Now, I know they are just comedians but they said that aluminum was the only profitable material to recycle.


We screwed ourselves the second we planted that first seed and moved from hunter/gatherer to farmer. It became more efficient to sit in one spot and make babies to make more food to feed more babies to make more food.



monkeys, bunnies and bears...

[Mr Punch]

I've little doubt that consumer recycling is as you say, at least in most areas. But still, doing it is still a valid contribution. Why? Because it shows people that you care enough to do it... and therefore eventually some entrepreneur will take it up and make a real business out of it. That's the good thing about capitalist theory, especially with regards to waste: there's always money to be made out of caring and out of garbage.

So far aluminium is the only really profitable material to recycle in most markets, but a lot of this is down to market protectionism. It's cheaper to send old British computer parts, PET bottles, cans etc to China for recycling than to reprocess them in the UK at the moment... of course it makes a mockery of environmentalism in waste gases and energy and pollution from shipping and processing under minimum legal controls, but that should change in time... for various reasons I don't want to or have time to go into here now.

As for what you can do...
(It's long and rambling, but if you ain't got it in you to read it, you'll be ****ed when it comes to action!!! :p )

You know what you can do! :) Do as much as possible: every little helps. Anybody who says otherwise is ignoring all of the rags to riches stories of saving and hard slog like that nauseatingly sanctimonious puke Robert Kiyosaki and his ilk. The only difference is not many're gonna make a wad out of it, but when it's your kids at stake, I figure that should give you enough incentive.

You can start by buying a shopping bag. Or several. Always take it with you and always refuse plastic bags. Some of these bags take 200 years of introducing toxic molecules into the soil before they break down into inert materials, and generally you use them once and then throw them away, or even brighter, use the ****ing things for garbage bags in your kitchen bin, effectively sealing perfectly biodegradeable scraps in a non-biodegradeable wrapping! :rolleyes: Even after nearly 33 years on the planet I can't believe how ****ing stupid people are on a daily basis.

Buy a smaller car.

Buy local. Don't buy overpackaged products and write to your supermarket telling them why, and encourage other young parents to do the same... for some reason I don't get the feeling Americans have woken up to consumer power yet...?! Don't buy processed foods.

Avoid GM goods (probably impossible in the States but you could see) and write to the supermarkets and manufacturers for proper labelling as to what modifications have been made and to include on the labels references to the results of clinical trials on websites or wherever for public access.

Compost. Grow your own. Apart from any lofty ideas of wude, this to me is kungfu: hard work, training (including strength training and the discipline of fitting it in around your everyday life), patience, and ultimately benefit and protection for you and those around you (but then maybe I'm a wacko :D :o :D )

Buy a wind generator for your garden. Buy and fit, or even better, make solar panels (there are many partially effective home-made ways of using solar energy, which will save the resources of buying one - as they are quite counterproductive in terms of materials used). And the best thing? Well depending on your area and local regs, you'll make back the money you've spent in three-four years and the rest will be saving. So when some dumb**** has a pop at you about the funny looking things on your roof, you can grin and say you've got half of his electrical bill.

Look around the net. There are scores of sites, ranging from hippy**** nonsense-merchants to scientists to everyday practical suggestions. Educate yourself and make the decisions. You don't have to be a ****ing hippy, and you don't have to be hardcore, you can decide where to draw the line.

Also, write to your representative and encourage others to do so... well I dunno, I do write to mine in the UK, and I'm fortunate to have a couple of nice connections in the Japanese Environment Ministry, but I have heard of people being put under surveillance for similar initiatives in the US, so it's up to you but it's another option.

Every little does help. And people do follow examples. If people start treating garbage as another resource, we should advance economically as well as environmentally. That would be a return (?) to real capitalism.... with capital!

All of this to me is kungfu.

As someone said; how pathetic it is not to be able to protect yourself and the ones you love... and that goes for your children and the next generation too...

And that's without going into politics at all!!!;)

There are no guarantees, and it's possibly a big scare story... but these measures seem like common sense to me.

[Mr Punch]

I'm rather partial to bats myself.

Give me a hare over a ****ing bunny tho anyday. Hares are hardcore.

[MasterKiller]

What good is a hare if you can't see it? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Mat
You can start by buying a shopping bag. Or several. Always take it with you and always refuse plastic bags. Some of these bags take 200 years of introducing toxic molecules into the soil before they break down into inert materials, and generally you use them once and then throw them away, or even brighter, use the ****ing things for garbage bags in your kitchen bin, effectively sealing perfectly biodegradeable scraps in a non-biodegradeable wrapping! :rolleyes: F@#k me. I'd never thought of that. So what's the alternative? Are there biodegradeable bin liners?

And this then raises the question of cost. Carrier bags are effectively free, but paying for bin liners is better for the environment (assuming bio-d ones exist) and therein lies the problem. Most people don't have extra cash around.

What do you suggest?

[Mr Punch]

There are some local councils in some areas in some countries which have more biodegradeable bags... so we're talking 10-20 years with less toxic components, but that's not enough. Like I said, depends how far you wanna take it... how long and how much does a letter to the local authority/waste company, a letter to a research institute and a letter to your representative take?

therein lies the problem... Of course. And people can't generally be arsed. But it's like dumb fu(ks everywhere will breed and eat without thinking, so it's not too hard to see that the problem won't stop before they sh!t where they eat too... :rolleyes: