Won Hon Fang Successor?

[mantisben]

Did Won Hon Fang have a successor?

[Brazil Mantis]

Hi Mantisben,

I do not read chinese but my Sifu gave me a book that Wong Hong Funn Sigung presents his 25 graduated disciples names and I believe that each one of them are successors of him.

Hope it helps,

[mantisben]

Originally posted by Brazil Mantis
Hi Mantisben,

I do not read chinese but my Sifu gave me a book that Wong Hong Funn Sigung presents his 25 graduated disciples names and I believe that each one of them are successors of him.

Hope it helps,

Thank you very much BrazilMantis. This was very helpful.

So, Won Hong Fun has 25 successors, but he doesn't have the traditional "this is the one and only Student to whom I pass all of my Praying Mantis Knowledge".

[Brazil Mantis]

Hi Mantisben,


So, Won Hong Fun has 25 successors, but he doesn't have the traditional "this is the one and only Student to whom I pass all of my Praying Mantis Knowledge".

I have no information about a sucessor. Perhaps some will have as well...

Regards,

[Young Mantis]

Originally posted by mantisben
Thank you very much BrazilMantis. This was very helpful.

So, Won Hong Fun has 25 successors, but he doesn't have the traditional "this is the one and only Student to whom I pass all of my Praying Mantis Knowledge".
mantisben,
Actually, I don’t recall any of our ancestors designating a student as being their “one and only student to whom I pass all of my Praying Mantis Knowledge”? Law Gwong Yook himself is known to have had 21 disciples. Both Fahn Yook Tung and Wong Wing Sung also had many successors continue their teachings. I don’t recall in any generation when a specific pupil was designated as a sole inheritor. If I am mistaken about this, please someone correct me.
This notion of a sole inheritor is not really a tradition in modern Chinese history. It’s simply not practical since the lineage would end if something were to happen to that one sole successor. Sometimes a student may be designated as the successor as far as being the authority for that sifu’s teachings although I don’t think to the extreme that you word it. More like the most senior disciple or top student.

The idea of a sole successor stems back to ancient China when styles were regarded as family secrets or confined to within one location or mountain. Like all families, a head of household would be established, usually the most elderly. For martial arts schools and clans, this person was known as the “jeung moon yan” or “guardian of the style”. This title is not really used anymore although the closest approximation I can think of would be the abbot of Shaolin Temple. The term and idea is highly romanticized though in Chinese novels and movies.

As for the successors of WHF specifically, my Sifu submitted the names of the 25 graduates to the Internet about 5-6 years ago and was subsequently copied by Fernando Blanco onto his MantisCave webpage. You can look there for more information regarding this list.

YM

[MantisifuFW]

List Members,

I agree with YM's evaluation of the historical record. It seems that there has not been a tradition of a single inheritor, superior to others in the Qixing for more than a century. Fan Xudong did have four disciples, Gou Jialu, Yang Weixin, Lin Jingshan and Lou Guangyu. Yang Weixin was the most senior and taught Tanglangquan in Yantai, Shanghai and in the area around Qingdao. Lin Jingshan was the one to inherit Fan Xudong's school, however and carried on the tradition of his master in Yantai. No record shows that Luo Guangyu, for all of his acheivements and obvious knowledge, was named the inheritor either.

There is a tradition of a single inheritor in Meihua Tanglangquan as reported by Shifu Ilya Profatilov in his article for JAMA, however.

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[mantisben]

Originally posted by MantisifuFW
List Members,
...
There is a tradition of a single inheritor in Meihua Tanglangquan as reported by Shifu Ilya Profatilov in his article for JAMA, however.

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

Thank you for the explanation MantisifuFW. I kinda thought of GM Lee Kam Wing as "The Successor" to GM Chu Chi Min. I was wondering whether Wong Hon Funn had some similar successor. I guess not.

Thanks Again MantisifuFW!

[MantisCool]

An Inheritor is the one who carried on in the school the duty of his master not his teaching because the shifu has many students and each might has move out to develop on the own. And each of them is his successor.

If there are more than one teaching in the school, then one will be chosen as the "Zong Jiao Lian" or Chief Coach. The rest are either the Coach or Assistant Coach.

[Wang Rui Xuan]

MantisifuFW:

Originally posted by MantissifuFW
Fan Xudong did have four disciples, Gou Jialu, Yang Weixin, Lin Jingshan and Lou Guangyu.

Fan Xu Dong in fact had five advanced 'closed door¡¯ disciples. Perhaps even more. But definitely NOT four. They were Master¡¯s Gou Jialu, Yang Weixin, Lin Jingshan, Luo Guangyu, and Wang Chuan Yi.

I spoke with Shifu Pel who immediately verified this verbally in addition to showing me a hard copy of his ¡°ZHONGHUA WUSHU - History of QI XING TANGLANG QUAN,¡± documenting in Chinese that Fan Xu Dong in fact had five advanced ¡®closed door¡¯ disciples. Of course it is entirely possible that there may have been more. Anyone interested in receiving the above mentioned documentation in Chinese please contact Shifu Pel at info@chinwoomen.com.

Wang Chuan Yi (WCY) was Fan Xu Dong¡¯s fifth disciple and coincidentally the grandson of Fan Xu Dong's teacher Wang Yun Sheng. WCY was apparently one of FXD¡¯s top students. WCY was a teacher at Shanghai Chin Woo and apparently good friends with LGY, providing additional support to LGY when he was traveling and teaching throughout China. Both LGY and WCY¡¯s boxing skills were famous in the Shanghai, Zhejiang, and Guangdong regions. Later Wang Chuan Yi moved back to Dalian (Shandong) in 1952. WCY¡¯s best students were Wang Mao Sheng, Ma Guan You, Wong Wen Zhang, and Chi Xue Yuan.

Mantisben:

Master Chiu Chi Min (CCM) had a number of disciples, of course LKW being one of them. But Master Chiu Chi Man¡¯s original and longest term disciples were masters Raymond Ly and Chiu Luen. Due respects to Master Raymond Ly¡¯s passing away two years ago. Their full names were Ly Ming Loy and Chui Chuen Luen respectively using the Cantonese pronunciation. Of course with all due respect it should be noted that Master Lee Kam Wing was not the SOLE inheritor of Chiu Chi Man¡¯s system, but more accurately one of the 'closed door' disciples of Chiu Chi Man. I am sure you can follow up and verify this with any of masters Raymond Ly¡¯s or Chui Chuen¡¯s longer term accomplished students.

Here is a nice link and picture of Master Raymond Ly with his teacher Master Chiu Chi Man. I certainly hope Shifu Yamel Torres does not mind, as the link and picture come directly from his website.

http://www.sevenstarmantis.com/images/lei-min.jpg

Best regards,
Wang Rui Xuan

[Laviathan]

Information taken from A Discourse on the History of Praying Mantis Boxing in China for the last one hundred years by Mr. Wong Hon-Chiu.

Fan Xudong had many students, but only nine of them were considered disciples. They were:

1. Zhao Liangfu (Eldest disciple, nicknamed "Fan Xudong the Second")

2. Lin Jingshan (Best in Iron Palm of all of Fan's students)

3. Yang Weixin

4. Luo Guangyu

5. Xiao Shubin

6. Zhang Youde

7. Wang Chuanyi

8. Guo Jialu

9. Liu Yongchang

This source states that Wang Chuanyi was the 7th disciple instead of fifth.

[Wang Rui Xuan]

Nice info Laviathan!

Wang Rui Xuan

[BeiTangLang]

Indeed so! So,...there have not really been any single inheritors for several generations then. Makes good sense.
Thanks for this topic. It has been insightfull.

[WhiteMonkey]

So does anyone have a list of the 25 successors, that they can post?

[WhiteMonkey]

So does anyone have a list of the 25 successors, that they can post?

[argentino]

As for the successors of WHF specifically, my Sifu submitted the names of the 25 graduates to the Internet about 5-6 years ago and was subsequently copied by Fernando Blanco onto his MantisCave webpage. You can look there for more information regarding this list.

YM

This reads like I have stolen the information or something like that. Just to clear any doubt, the source is listed in the bibliography (item 29) and has always been written there.

Best regards

Fernando

[Young Mantis]

This reads like I have stolen the information or something like that. Just to clear any doubt, the source is listed in the bibliography (item 29) and has always been written there.

Best regards

Fernando

Sifu Blanco,

My apologies to you if my post sounds as if I accused you of stealing. That was certainly not my intention. We are aware of your bibilography but I did not think it was necessary to mention it.

YM
Vance Young

[argentino]

My English is not too good and I got some private e-mails pointing me to this message suggesting that meaning...
Just wanted to clarify. No problems now that it is all clear.

Best regards and keep in touch

Fernando
www.themantiscave.tk