got Jing?????????

[EarthDragon]

Hello guys and girls,
Just going over some of my archive hand written notes and came across a list that I have made of diffrerent types of Jing........

Just wondering is anyone has any to add, or would like to share any that I may have missed.......... be well

Nei
fa
kun
nien
hua
chang
duan
ying
rou
na
fu
leng
jie
ding
ting
chen
ching


__________________

[MonkeySlap Too]

You have that many kinds of semen?

Or are you discussing "Jin"?

[SPJ]

Are you talking about Tang Lang or just in general?

Let me decipher your list so that there are no duplicates.

1. Nei (from inside)

2. Fa (release)

3. Kun (wrap or tie up)

4. Nien (stick) as in Zhan Nien Te Kao (contact, stick, bond and strike) in Tang Lang.

5. Hua (neutralize)

6. Chang (long) such as Peng Lu Ji An in Tai Ji.

7. Duan (short) as in Cai Lie Zhou Kao in Tai Ji.

8. Ying (hard)

9. Rou (soft or gentle)

10. Na (capture)

11. Fu (?)

12. Leng (?)

13. Jie (intercept)

14. Ding (oppose)

15. Ting (listen)

16. Chen (sinking)

17. Ching (light).


There will be hundreds of Jin's depends on the school of MA.

[EarthDragon]

excellent spj, not sure how many people know these or at least to utilize effectively, i saw some "?" on a couple so i will add.

11. Boyant
12. cold

have you tried to use any of these during techniques or combat?

[puja]

Hi ED,

Nice topic :)

what do you mean by 'Boyant' ? I couldn't find it in the dictionary.

Thanks,

Puja

[Becca]

If my understanding is right, Buoyant is almost a blend of Rou (soft) and Ching (light), or "going with the flow".

[puja]

Thanks Becca, now I know which fu (•‚) was meant.

Does anyone have the chin. character (or pinyin with tone) for the 'ding' mentioned above?

Best regards,

Puja

[SPJ]

ED;

You are right. It takes a long time of practice to appreciate and master these "Jin".

In Mei Hua Tang Lang, there is the 8 elbows or Ba Zhou routine.

It is consisted of the fundamental postures or Shen Fa to practice all kinds of Jin's in the school.

1) So the first step is to study and practice the body structure to be right or perfect.

2) Jin sensing and issueing are then practiced.

It is all about balance.

If the body structure is not right or the moves are not balanced, the issueing of Jin will not be effective and also injures ourself.

In Tai Ji, push hands are used to study to sense the Jin of the opponent.

3) To practice issueing Jin has to be done against resistence such as bag works and props.

In Tai Ji, the long staff is used to practice Jin issueing and transmitting via the staff.

Every school has its own way or system to practice sensing and issueing Jin.

[MoreMisfortune]

i dont know what are all those names for

[EarthDragon]

SPJ,
I whole hearlty agree with you........... I was going over some of these with my students and they couldnt figure out how I was able to knock them off balance with ever so slight of motion.

I was trying to explain the kinetic energy traveling from the toe to the hand. Most were under the impression that...
force = mass x ecceleration and seriously confused when this threory was not apparent.

I met a taiji master many many years ago that was explaining to push with out muscle, when I looked at him with confused eyes he said power comes form the ground not the body... the body only conducts power. If you want to push use energy not muscle...... 17 years later I understand what he meant.....

Misfortune what is that you do not understand???

[MoreMisfortune]

i dont understand why you need so many chinese names

[SevenStar]

I don't see pushing, following, borrowing, drawing, cutting, crossing, spiraling...

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MoreMisfortune
i dont understand why you need so many chinese names

that's actually a good point - one I bring up alot, but I won't mention it right now.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
I met a taiji master many many years ago that was explaining to push with out muscle, when I looked at him with confused eyes he said power comes form the ground not the body... the body only conducts power. If you want to push use energy not muscle...... 17 years later I understand what he meant.....


if you move your body at all, you are using muscle..or was he saying the structure has precedence over strength?

[Frogman]

I have a lot of Chang Ying Jing
My wife doesn't like it but my girl freind does:D

Just kidding, my wife likes it too.

I just started reading about this and find it very interesting, I try feeling energy following through my boby sometimes it do sometimes it don't. I feel like I have to make up for it with my imagination??? I do realize that it takes time and a different way of looking at your own body. Great topic gives me something to think about.

RibHit
fm
:cool:

[Dim Wit Mak]

Well, I studied Jing Sun Kung Fu (Vital Essence) for a while until the sifu disappeared. I see in the lexicon of terms it also means "energy wind".

[David Jamieson]

xebby and seven



es·o·ter·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-trk)
adj.

Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult. See Synonyms at mysterious.
Of or relating to that which is known by a restricted number of people.

Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
Not publicly disclosed; confidential.


That's why Chinese names are used. :)
That and a lack of proper translations in many ways.

[Vash]

I like sevenstar's list. And explanations.

Too bad he lacks teh street cred.

I have problems reading my native tongue, so one can understand the problem I have discerning the meanings of foreign terminology.

Besides that, everyone knows that [/i]*****uchi[/i] is teh deadly.

edit]

looking at this post, I see more "teh" than "the," but I'm to **** sleepy and lethargic to do a dayum thing about it.

[SPJ]

Yes, these terms are difficult to understand. There are no equivalent terms in English.

Jin or Jing is used to mean energy, momemtum, force, strength etc.

Many concepts of CMA are summarized as in a single character.

KL is right. They are sort of "trade" talks and only "insiders" know what they mean.

Think of these terms as if a piece of music is recorded in notes and scores.

[SPJ]

They describe the nature of Jin.

A. Source. internal vs external (Nei vs Wai).

B. When you fight, you are basically neutralizing (Hua) the opponent's Jin and deliver (Fa) your own Jin.

C. Long: means continuing. Short: Jin travels short distance and stops.

D. Ding: lift upward as in lifting heavy weight or head butt foreward etc.

E. Sinking is downward and lowering your hip and center of gravity.

F. Light is to move steps swiftly or hand quickly.

G. Cold: unexpected, sudden, usually lethal or crippling effects.

Basically, the tempo, directional, properties, etc of Jin.

Or just the nature of the Jin.

[SPJ]

Cutting or crossing.

If a Jin goes horizontally to the opponent's Jin, it may be called Lie or intercept (Jie). Usually, it would stop the opponent's Jin 'cold' and is considered "hard". Even though, you may not use a lot of force.

Spiraling.

It is called Ruo Xuan Jin in Ba Gua.

It is called Chan Si Jin (silk reeling) in Tai Ji.

And yes, they are different.

Pulling laterally to your side or downward is called Lu.

Drawing you mean circular movement?

[MoreMisfortune]

and now...
how exactly is that making those who know and use those terms somehow more powerful then those that dont
i dont really see people from MA that dont use those terms having a problem with learning to hit hard

philosofical/poethic moment

"nor it seems that tigers nor wolves need to know those terms to hunt nor the eagle needs to know those to fly"
by: yours truly

[MoreMisfortune]

man thats really good, i flater myself


here is my classic:

"Ladies First"

I let her go
before me
up the stairs

Aint chilvaric
im just trying
to see her ass

[SPJ]

You are right. They are just notes.

You may play Bach and Beethoven well by listening the music.

You do not need the notes or scores, do you?

It is just a way to document and communicate.

We may have physics and chemistry or anatomy without any terms either.

I know this is hand and we do not need to call it hand in latin or call bacteria in German either.

Just arguing for arguing sake.

You are right. We may communicate anyway we want. If my lingo matches your lingo though.

:D

[David Jamieson]

how exactly is that making those who know and use those terms somehow more powerful then those that dont

They don't make anyone more powerful. Just more knowledgable about a specific set of specific information relating to a specific pool of knowledge.

A person can very well discover these same concepts and call them something completely different. You know, Like how many "new" and "modern" martial arts just co-opt what is already known and then sell it as if it was a revelatory thing! :p

which it may well have been for the person who makes up the new terms.

Now, I don't have to understand the terminology of hunting to kill for food and I don't have to be a mason to build shelter. But, the groups that keep information for the next generation are important.

However, this thread is about sharing that information so, it is pointless to get frustrated. Just read and absorb what's being giving and through your practice, see if it holds true. :)

[MoreMisfortune]

theres no frustration about it
im just trying to find a point (or points) in things and/or why do (living beings) do things

[SPJ]

I hated those wordings, too.

They are usually archaic Chinese characters.

I used to write notes with more modern, plain Chinese words or sentences, just to help myself to understand and remember them.

And then, the same word may be used to mean different things in different schools.

Talking about making it even harder for students to study.

[EarthDragon]

I think kunglek summed it up the best but for me to ellaborate........ for me its all about sharing and getting different perspectives and opionons on things.

I am a note collector, I have been studying for over 25 years so my interests have switched over the years to internal movement and cultivatiion more so than how to fight, fighting to me is the basic and most elementary part of the art.

My interest now lies in translation of old (poems) and higher level knowledge recorded over the centuires by many past masters, some of these have never been seen or have died witrh thier masters and art simply for the sake of no one passing it on.

My shrfu told me of great systems that have become extinct due to the selfishness or lack of teaching others.
So in my little way I try to keep what volumes of knowledge that I have collected over the years and bring them to the board for sharing, most of which people love.... not question.

Mostly on the mantis board where we love our styles it seems more than the mixed martial artists here, there is so much tradtion lost by the guys who only see kung fu as a fighting art and dont bother to look any ****her buty to each his own.

I have been asked to write an article for the MANTIS QUARTERLY and if you are so inclined by all means get your school a subscription, this is a weath of knowledger which gets distributed in several countires and keeps the mantis players close in our love and life long study of kung fu.............

[SPJ]

Following Jin is walking Jin or Zhou Jin. It is a Jin from steps, walks or manuever.

Drawing is Ying Jin to lead or guide.

Good list.

[SPJ]

Mantis Quarterly is a good Journal.

[SPJ]

MM;

Why is that your avatar is B&W version of that of KL?

:D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by EarthDragon

Mostly on the mantis board where we love our styles it seems more than the mixed martial artists here

why do you think so?


there is so much tradtion lost by the guys who only see kung fu as a fighting art and dont bother to look any ****her buty to each his own.

yeah, that is a to each his own thing definitely. Not everybody is interested in the tradition of the style. There are also those who are interested, but are more interested in training.

[Becca]

yeah, that is a to each his own thing definitely. Not everybody is interested in the tradition of the style. There are also those who are interested, but are more interested in training. True. I have met many an accomplished fighter who is well aware of the history of his style. They know the more obscure aspects, just don't practice them as much as some.

[MoreMisfortune]

Originally posted by SPJ
MM;

Why is that your avatar is B&W version of that of KL?

:D

you see
that is a big problem you know
I was the original one to begin using the domo-kun in the early dark age of xebby
I did it first
This avatar, i edited a domo-kun picture by myself, made the animation and make it black and white. This avatar is one of my original productions, you dont find it anywhere else unless they stole it from me.
I also had other versions: 60x60, 65x65 and i could create even bigger res from the originals. Today its unfortunately lost though i believe.

[SPJ]

As far as old poems or boxing book (Quan Jing);

If you learn the moves and know how to store and release your Jin.

The next level is to study the apps or tactics and strategy to use them.

These are in poems. A single move or a single Jin may have pages or even a book of apps, tactic and strategy. In the old time, Chinese were written in sentences of 4 words, 6 words, 7 words or longer.

Not only poems and oftentime they are "sing along".

Many boxers or masters as ED pointed out recorded their notes of practices, interpretations, apps, tactic and strategy in poems or old Chinese limited words sentence.

So training yes. Muse on the poems absolutely.

And yes, we have to write our own notes to pass down. Not necessarily in poems.

:D

[Indestructible]

I don't know the chinese name for it, be we have a type of mantis striking our teacher call projection. We use an iron palm bag held up by the two top corners and hit the bag with back of the mantis hand. The idea is to strike the bag without making it swing wildly. To project into the bag, but not through, thus projection. I'll ask my teacher the chinese name next time he's down.

[EarthDragon]

I know in our system and as well in other systems, notes were not taken simply based on old masters not being able to read or write, many years ago this was left up to the scholars........ hence they remembered thier meanings and applications in song or poems.... many great techniques were never written down for the above reasons, so therefore translating these songs, or poems might be the true nature of the systems....

again to elaborate on the other things brought about training. no one is saying that you need to know anything about culture to be a good fighter, hell you dont even have to know where your style comes from or who invented it.... but it is always good to learn as much you can about what it is your spending your life learning........
we dont have to know the latin terms or roots to speak english but if I were to spend 20 years teaching english then dont you think this would be helpful? if not a must?

[SPJ]

so some friends asked about what is Jin(g).

I did a search. This thread turned up.

:D

[The Xia]

I like to think of it as "intent".

[The Xia]

The below quote is from here. http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=651

Ging is the smart way to use strength and does not refer to your body's natural power. Hard practice and much time well spent are needed to acquire this. If you've never trained to obtain ging, what you use is referred to as stiff or dead strength. Use of stiff strength usually causes people to exhaust their power. Fatigue sets in, and the shoulders, elbow, back, arms and legs suffer muscle failure. If you know how to use the ging (invisible power), you can use the mind to lead the qi, from inside, energizing the muscles, concentrating the power to the desired point. When a practitioner uses ging, the shape is rarely seen, being as quick as lightning. The hands extend and retract very quickly, being extremely flexible, not stiff. When you're using muscular power, there is a finite amount of energy that can be expended. But ging can be used infinitely, because of the practitioner's ability to combine hard and soft and also regulate it. Ging originates from the waist. All of the ging in Hung Ga is generated from the waist, traveling to the four limbs. The waist is like the center point of the clock, controlling the minute hands. The hands' power comes from that center. When beginners learn to use ging, they most frequently have trouble coordinating the upper with the lower body. Hung Ga uses a multitude of complex upper limb movements and directions. Therefore, the Hung Ga practitioner has numerous upper limb options at his disposal to handle attacks from any angle, which may be difficult for beginners. The lower body is used differently as the movements are simpler. The lower body is used to coordinate, follow and support the upper body. The most frequent mistake made by beginners is that the horse stance finishes before the striking hand does. If the upper limbs and horse don't coordinate, they are not performing the ging method of Hung Ga. "When you move, the whole body must move. When you stop, the whole body must stop; the upper and lower limbs must coordinate and match together."

[David Jamieson]

jin = energies/forces/powers

intention is what makes them work. :p