SINCE KUNG FU SYSTEMS OFTEN HAVE HEALING ARTS IN THEM,

[Royal Dragon]

Is it possible that some of the estoric, and seemingly useles moves in our forms are actually documenting massage techniques?

Comments anyone?

[MasterKiller]

No.

Next question?

[The Willow Sword]

well well finally an intelligent topic in this forum for a change.

The esoteric martial forms you are talking about combine healing techniques as well as the combative aspects. i mean when you really think about it why would there NOT be any healing aspects to martial arts? you study how to hurt someone but also you study how to help heal someone AND yourself. i mean come on do you guys really think that the warriors of old were inept at self healing and treating thier wounds when they went in to combat?

all these guys in these mixed martial arts who go out and beat each other to sh!t have not ONE iota of capability among them when it comes to healing themselves or another. they rely on the doctors and western bullsh!t medicines that only block the pain and injury from bothering them,,rather than facilitating a healing process.

Forms have the combined techniques of maintaining the body's immunity and healing capabilities. sure we need the doctors when we have a severed limb or bullet hole in us,,,,but to contend with the rigors of training and sparring and hand to hand combat,,the treatment of those minor injuries are WELL within the capabilities of the individual.
i say learn your holistic medicines and herbal treatments ,,,if any of you are taking internal arts,,ASK your teachers about the healing aspects of what they are teaching you,,if they cant answer your questions about that,then you need to question what it is that you are truly learning from your teacher.

Peace,,,TWS

[PangQuan]

Funny you ask. Years ago (before I began my Kung Fu practice) I was injured, dislocated two ribs from my spine, torn muscles. Lots of fun I tell you. Well making a very long story short, I was never able to recieve any medical attention. Some time passed, situation worsened. I began to practice Kung Fu. After practicing kung fu for a while, my situation began to lighten up, no more sudden pains lasting for days, no more sharp annoyances. It is not gone but it is better. I finally have a job that gives good benefits, in which I will be seeking acupuncture and chiropractic treatment, as well as massage therapy. Point being, kung fu was my standing point, it enabled me to feel better, so in turn I was able to secure the position I have today. When I first began my practice I did notice certain movements in my form(s) that would have a certain effect in that certain area, popping, streatching, and relaxation. These movements where what made the difference. So as an answer to your question I would say, to an extent yes, some of the movements we do are old found ways of personal body maintinence based around movements that are natural to our structured design in which help keep us in the natural state our bodies are capable of maintaining. Of course this is just one mans theory composed on the spot right here, but it sounds good to me.

[Ray Pina]

"all these guys in these mixed martial arts who go out and beat each other to sh!t have not ONE iota of capability among them when it comes to healing themselves"

I disagree with this statement. Though I am not a MMAist, I'm quite sure that they, like myself, have gained through experience what to do when it comes to different trama. It may not be our field of expertise, but I've had ribs broken and shoulders macked and how many bloody this or that and swollen other things .... through time, watching myself get patched up by doctors, and even how the situation was handled immediately by coaches, etc, have learned what to do until a professional can get to it.

I'm guessing it was this way with warriors in the past and today on the battlefield. Its hard to be an expert at everything.

[Royal Dragon]

Its hard to be an expert at everything

Reply]
No, but you can master your specialty, and be well versed in alot of stuff.

[MasterKiller]

So which Tai Tzu form contains a "full release" technique?

[Royal Dragon]

All of them :eek:

[fa_jing]

dunno but there a top (Chinese) tai-chi guy and medical doctor who lists "medical fists" as one of the forms he teaches.

[Shooter]

one example is white-stork posture.

if the proper 'stretch' and breath is utilized in its static position, white-stork 'works' the heart meridian

there are many, many others

[Royal Dragon]

See, THAT is what i'm talking about. I just had the thought that many of the things we do, thinking they are for fighting are really all about the health of it. It's an incorperated system of combat preperation, and health maintinance used during times of peace to keep the mind and body sharp for war.

[Ray Pina]

That's a different story. In that case you can say every single posture in Taiji, Ba Gua and Hsing-I has medical properties.

But I don't view it as "fixing" a problem. In the past month I've experienced a pretty large revelation and now do internal work twice a day and actually enjoy it, and if I miss I feel guilty.

I view it as maintaining a bank account, making sure there is money in the bank. When the bank runs low, then you open yourself up to illness and injury.

[yutyeesam]

But wouldn't you say that preventive care and direct treatment of injurries are on the same continuum? You make it sound as if they have nothing to do with each other.
Granted there is no "Bandaging Kune" , but isn't it interesting how SO MANY martial arts masters from China know how to heal as effectively as they hurt? (see Chan Tai San thread)

-123

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
well well finally an intelligent topic in this forum for a change.

The esoteric martial forms you are talking about combine healing techniques as well as the combative aspects. i mean when you really think about it why would there NOT be any healing aspects to martial arts? you study how to hurt someone but also you study how to help heal someone AND yourself. i mean come on do you guys really think that the warriors of old were inept at self healing and treating thier wounds when they went in to combat?


does it make sense? yes. Does it make sense that it's in the forms? No, IMO. If they were going to do that, they would most logically fit into a healing form.


all these guys in these mixed martial arts who go out and beat each other to sh!t have not ONE iota of capability among them when it comes to healing themselves or another. they rely on the doctors and western bullsh!t medicines that only block the pain and injury from bothering them,,rather than facilitating a healing process.

not surprisingly, this statement is wrong. For example, in judo, there is a requirement that if you run your own club, you at least know cpr - you must get certified. Also, as you train and learn, you will learn various treatments from your coach. naturally, it's a more western approach - but you will learn how to treat certain small injuries.

It's funny you should mention that though. How many CMA practitioners are certified in TCM? all of them? some? very few?

Forms have the combined techniques of maintaining the body's immunity and healing capabilities. sure we need the doctors when we have a severed limb or bullet hole in us,,,,but to contend with the rigors of training and sparring and hand to hand combat,,the treatment of those minor injuries are WELL within the capabilities of the individual.

that's no different than an mma guy.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by PangQuan
Funny you ask. Years ago (before I began my Kung Fu practice) I was injured, dislocated two ribs from my spine, torn muscles. Lots of fun I tell you. Well making a very long story short, I was never able to recieve any medical attention. Some time passed, situation worsened. I began to practice Kung Fu. After practicing kung fu for a while, my situation began to lighten up, no more sudden pains lasting for days, no more sharp annoyances. It is not gone but it is better. I finally have a job that gives good benefits, in which I will be seeking acupuncture and chiropractic treatment, as well as massage therapy. Point being, kung fu was my standing point, it enabled me to feel better, so in turn I was able to secure the position I have today. When I first began my practice I did notice certain movements in my form(s) that would have a certain effect in that certain area, popping, streatching, and relaxation. These movements where what made the difference. So as an answer to your question I would say, to an extent yes, some of the movements we do are old found ways of personal body maintinence based around movements that are natural to our structured design in which help keep us in the natural state our bodies are capable of maintaining. Of course this is just one mans theory composed on the spot right here, but it sounds good to me.

on the newsstands currently, there is a magazine called something like "a to z health and fitness". in it, it talks about how asians live longer than anyone on the planet - the have like 74 people over 100, and the oldest are 115 and 113. they attribute it to the eating habits and also had a sstudy about taiji's benefits. the results were similar to what you posted, which is what reminded me of it. I can't remember the exact findings tho - I'll have to go get the mag and check it out again.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
See, THAT is what i'm talking about. I just had the thought that many of the things we do, thinking they are for fighting are really all about the health of it. It's an incorperated system of combat preperation, and health maintinance used during times of peace to keep the mind and body sharp for war.

or is that just the byproduct of a healthy lifestyle? I train alot, try to eat healthy, take care of myself, etc. And I've never had a broken bone, despite playing football, being a skater, MA, etc. - a fracture, but not a break. I only get sick like once every three years or so and I've never had the flu, depsite never weaing long sleeves during the winter and rarely even wearing a coat. CMA has only comprised 4 years of my MA training, so I definitely can't attribute it to that.

[joedoe]

IMO if you look at the healing aspects of the forms as similar to the way yoga works you might be getting closer to the truth.

I know a lot of TCMA sifus know TCM (:D) as an addendum to their martial skills. IMO the forms are primarily to teach the fighting movements of the art. Any health benefits are secondary.

[Vash]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
i mean . . . i mean . . . come on . . . you guys . . . seriously . . .

Holy sht, The Willow Sword is Cartman.

[The Willow Sword]

Holy sht, The Willow Sword is Cartman.


(cartman voice) "shut up and go bake me a pie".