Hsing-I xingyi Help

[Michaelwalter77]

I am a Sun Practitioner and I know that it is derived from Xingyi
I want to learn the 5 element set to broaden my skills I have a book. Can anyone send me some links of video clips so that I can figure out the pace and transitional movements. Thank You

[Brad]

I can't think of any good clips off hand, but you might want to check out http://www.emptyflower.com. If they don't have clips, there's at least lots of interesting and helpful info in xingyi quan. If you don't find what you're looking for there, I've heard good things about this set of vcds: http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd/coll_XYdiguoyong.htm

Have you asked you Sun style teacher if he knows any xingyi? Might be a good idea to check with him first if you haven't allready.

[l@zylee]

Yes ask your Sun teacher to teach you the elements, I should imagine he would know them, if not there are actually lots of VCD's available that teach the 5 elements but as always an experienced teacher is what you need, to look at, the movements look extremely straight forward but without a good internal MA teacher you'll never get it. I'm not sure just mimicking the movements will broaden your skills at all.

Lee

[Ray Pina]

This might not be what you want to hear, but you won't learn the lessons of the 5 Elements by copying the form and following the pace someone has on video.

The outside is the form, what shape you take. The inside is the lesson: who supplies the power and what is trying to be achieved.

Take wood for instance. You see guys stepping and throwing out straight punches. They might as well be doing karate (not a negative). Wood is not about being split by metal or burned by fire. Look at CHinese palaces .... they are supported by wood pillars. Wood means space. The wood element is all about how to control space, open up your apponant and get in. Or collapse them down while you come in and strike up, etc., etc.

This is the 5 elements. If you want to learn them properly find a teacher.

Even more unwelcome news: The 5 Elements don't mean anything if you don't have the 5 Requirements. You probbaly have this ability though already if you've been training any style well.

[Palmer]

Michaelwalter,

I do not think Evolutionfist meant to offend. Like you I also study a Tai Chi style that has roots in Hsing-i. I practice the Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi of sifu Kuo Lien Ying. Having said that I do not believe I could have understood the Hsing-i I have learned just based on having studied the Tai Chi. Many principles do overlap but many of the main principles of the Hsing-i as I learn it are not very apparent just from the Tai Chi form/training. I learned more from being hit by my teacher and having him rip apart the simplist moves then i ever did from forms.
I would also agree with the prior post about looking at the emptyflower website it has alot of info and the forum there is good IMO.
Since you are an experienced Tai Chi practitioner and have vested alot of time and money in your training I would reccomend to continue to do so and travel to good seminars/teachers to learn the Hsing-i if it interests you.

Good luck in your search

PS- Most Hsing-i clips on the net are horrible.......

[Michaelwalter77]

Thank You so much for your kind comments and help.

[scholar]

Greetings.

I would think the 5 elements are well expressed in the Sun form. My teacher's great-grandfather (Wu Chien-ch'uan) was a close colleague of Sun, and he and his sons incorporated a lot of Sun's influence into the modern Wu style forms. Besides their emphasis in the forms, we have several specific drills for the 5 elements as well as many for the 8 trigrams; directions as well as power generation.

For a straight Hsing-i drill, my advice would be to find a reference from a source as close to Sun Lu-t'ang as you can find, so that it will harmonise better with your T'ai Chi training. Sun was a Hsing-i disiple of Guo Yunshen (Šs‰_�[) , so maybe something from that lineage might be what you are looking for.


Best of luck!

[DoGcHoW108]

Originally posted by Michaelwalter77
I guess that I was not specific enough. I am not a novice trying to teach himself from books. I have over 20 years MA experiance.
I am a certified instructor in Sun taijiquan I also hold several state, national and international titles. Many of the moves are derived from Hsing-I. I just think that it would be nice for me to learn more about the roots. I do not plan to start teaching Hsing-I. I cant ask my teacher because he now lives in another country. And besides, if you are a true master you can learn from books and videos. The 1st American European Shaolin Martial Arts Competition, I placed 3rd in Lohan and 1st in Advanced weapons. I learned both sets from videos. By the way the judges were monks.
The 8 drunken immortals form was learned from an ancient text and so was the current songshan carricilum.
I just asked for a simple video clip, not to be told that I would fail before I even start.



that was beautiful. you are a god amongst insects!

[Ray Pina]

I am sorry master Michael. Forgive me. I'm sure at your level, with your form competition prowless, it should be no problem.... especially since you have a taiji background.

But, in my humble, low-level opinion (I have only been studying for 26 years) Hsing-I does not "borrow" power. The mindset betwen taiji and Hsing-I is different.

When doing taiji I feel like an immortal, nothing can fight with me because I am not fighting.

When I practice Hsing-I I think taiji is a begging bum, always asking to borrow. Hsing-I is not so nice. It doesn't ask or borrow, it takes. But I'm sure you have that from your form. And I'm also sure you understand most Hsing-I players will not ask to see your form but to feel it.

Best of luck. I'm sure you'll find plenty of footage on the internet.

[Brad]

I just asked for a simple video clip, not to be told that I would fail before I even start.
No, you said you want to learn xingyi quan from video and books. Considering the number of idiots out there that try to become video kungfu masters, and how many Sun taiji people out there who just aren't that good, it would be pretty irresponsible for those who put in lots of blood and sweat time learning their skill if they didn't at least try to warn people how hard it is. If you want any more help, don't be so *****ly. As someone who has won quite a few medals in taiji forms competition(and been beaten by guys who can barely stand on their own two feet), I can say they're pretty meaningless in the long run. Medals can help me advertise if I ever decide to set up my own school, and I have a lot of fun competing, hanging out, and partying afterwards at these competitions, but winning forms competition does little to prove what you really understand and know. If you hadn't noticed xingyi is pretty straight forward and no nonsense, and I think a lot of people who end up in xingyi quan have a bit of that attitude as well. So if you want help from xingyi people(who would be most likely to know which vids if any are good/bad) then don't parrot a bunch of credentials that mean nothing to them. I've got nothing against people learning stuff from videos(I've got a nice large video/vcd collection myself and am allways downloading stuff), but to come out implying that you're a master and then giving a bunch of forms competition credentials that mean nothing to most people is a silly way to act when people are trying to give you friendly advice(advice most people attempting to learn from video should here).

[Michaelwalter77]

I am not trying to parrot credentials, I was just letting the guy know that I am not be as much of an idiot as he thinks I am.
All I ever wanted to do is learn some basic function of Hsing-I. So then I would have some vague clue about it in case someone asked. I'm done, I dont care, I want nothing to do with this

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


The 5 Element Fist is good stuff. I believe you can find info on Empty Flower about it but if you are looking for a simple video that contains that stuff you may want to check into:

The Way Of Power by Lam Kam Chuen

Its mainly Yi Chuan but in the middle he has a clear demonstration of Wang's 5 Element practice.

I am not a huge fan of Lam but the demo is very clear and easy to follow if you just want some basic outline of those methods!


Best of luck!

[Three Harmonies]

Regardless of your intention, you should know that you should learn from someone rather than a book or video. There is no substitution to personal attention from a qualified instructor. Remember: "Xing Yi is the easiest art to learn, and the hardest to master." :D

Cheers
Jake :cool:

[scholar]

Personally, I can't imagine learning from a video. I've been training T'ai Chi from very strict teachers for over 20 years and my teachers tell me I'm pretty good for a Westerner, but I wouldn't try learning a new form (especially from another style of MA) from a tape or DVD. I'd use one as a reference for a form I've already been shown in person by a teacher, if necessary, I suppose.

I'm not saying it is impossible to do, but I wouldn't try it myself or recommend it to anyone else.

[Michaelwalter77]

I agree, there is no substitute for personal instruction.
My overall intentions are to figure it out as best I can and then get some private instruction from a qualified master to have all my mistakes fixed.

I dont want to teach or claim Hsing-I or anything like that, all I really wanted were some fundamentals so that I could better understand my style (Sun Taiji) and its roots.

[Palmer]

Michaelwalter77,

Here is a link to a webpage that has a clips of Serge Augier doing clips of each of the five elements. They are more demonstration then instructional but as far as Hsing-i clips go I think they are pretty good. Li ti Liang is down in the NYC metropoliten area there are probably people down there that you could train with intermittently.

http://www.whitecraneinstitute.com/artsofcombat/en/xingyi.htm