Authentic Ninja info?

[red5angel]

anyone here have any suggestions for locating authentic information on the ninja? I'm doing some research and I've located a ton of info on Samurai but everything I've come across on ninja so far is garbage.

[Chizica]

Red,


Start here. I'tll help lead you to what ever you're looking for.




Chizica

[MasterKiller]

Just because you walk passed a new school doesn't mean you have to sign up, you know.

[HiddenShadow]

I remeber watching a documentary on Ninjitsu on the History channel a few months back. Im not real familar with this subject, but it seemed rather informative. Perhaps you should contact them and see if you could get a copy of the show.

[Akhilleus]

Stephen K. Hayes has written a great deal on the subject...there are also a few books out by the Grandmaster of the Bujinkan Hatsumi...there was a whole special on ninjutsu a while ago...Stephen Hayes was on it...

[PangQuan]

http://www.resource-media.com/arts/Ninjitsu/ninjitsu.html

Ninjitsu is the ancient Japanese Art of the Ninja. It is the martial art of choice for the night vagabonds and killers. Ninjitsu unlike it's social counterpart, the Samurai, is an underground class of warriors trained to quickly gain entrance to hire security areas and achieve it's mission. Ninjitsu began more than 800 years ago. Ninja means "stealers - in".

Their forte is espionage and assassination, by any means possible. Ninjas were usually trained from childhood and continued learning the art of Ninjitsu from birth. Soon, even the elite Samurai class began to fear the Ninja for their notorious skills. Ninjitsu was practiced in great secrecy. Upon the arrival of Modern Japan, the Ninjitsu class was absorbed into Japan's Secret Service arm of the government. The art of Ninjitsu was later brought to the western world during the 1970's because of the work of Doron Navon and Stephen Hayes. They found a Ninjitsu headmaster living in Japan who was willing to train them.

The art of Ninjitsu is also known as "ninpo". Ninpo is a traditional Japanese bujutsu martial art that goes bcack for tens of centuries. It was developed as a counter culture art to the Samurai Warrior Class and was considered to be anti-government and illegal. Ninpo continues to be practiced today unter the tutelage of Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Grandmaster of the Togakure Ryu Ninjitsu Tradition. Dr. Hatsumi is considered to be the last variable true Ninja Grandmaster having a direct line of decent going back to Feudal Japan.

The art of Ninjitsu has no bounds. Their direct aim is assassination and espionage. They use many stealth and killer tactics including ninja stars, throwing knives, smoke bombs, poisons, darts, bow and arrows, karate, wrestling and guerilla warfare tactics. Ninjitsu is best known for their black uniforms and shurikens.

[SaekSan]

Isn't this all you need to know about Ninja?

"1. Ninjas are mammals.

2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people."

www.realultimatepower.net


:D :D :D

[Oso]

Vagabonds Rule !!!!

[Akhilleus]

I think I remember hearing someone say ninjutsu is enough to make kings and vagabonds...or something like that

[Starchaser107]

From what I understand, the martial aspect of ninjas is called Taijutsu

I think ther's a taijutsu school somewhere here in colorado.
I'll see if I can find a link.

[Starchaser107]

http://www.norcobujinkan.com/

this is the link, I haven't been to this school, but an aquantaince directed me to the link because he is a disciple.

[Akhilleus]

taijutsu refers to the unarmed aspects of the ninja arts and can be translated as "body movement" since footwork and evasion are a big part of the ninja's training...

[Akhilleus]

Many schools will teach taijutsu to the beginner and intermediate students, reserving the weapons and stealth training for those students who have achieved black belts...there are several reasons for this

[IronFist]

Masaaki Hatsumi.

Stephen K. Hayes.

[Tom Christy]

Depending on just how authentic you want the information to be, you might find that you've stumbled into a hornet's nest when you try to find information about ninjutsu.

Several of the classical Japanese koryu (old schools) contain ninjutsu within their curriculum. The Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu is an excellent example. However, these schools keep this aspect of their curriculum as a closely guarded secret, so you will not find anything out other than it exists.

When it comes to the ninjutsu schools that everyone is familiar with in the West (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan), there is quite a bit of animosity involved when it comes to the question of its authenticity. People who train in these schools get awfully testy when scholars of the classical Japanese arts suggest that they are a recent innovation. Suffice it to say that the discussion of ninjutsu and people like Hatsumi, Tanemura, Hayes, etc. usually ends up looking a lot like the discussions of Shaolin-do on this forum.

For tons of ninja info and more flame wars than you can shake a stick at, try searching the E-Budo forums.

Good luck and happy hunting,

Tom

[red5angel]

Just because you walk passed a new school doesn't mean you have to sign up, you know.

listen, if I'm going to start training ninjitsu then I want to know all I can about it first! Besides my 6 months are up in Capoeira!!!!


Actually I've just been doing a lot of research on the Samurai as of late and figured the Ninja would be an interesting subject. So far good information on them has ben as elusive as they were purported to be.....maybe it's on purpose? :D

I did find out some interesting things:

1- apparently there is no verifiable proof that anyone has ever been assassinated by a so called ninja.

2 - The popular black uniform of the ninja is actually a stage hands costume. Apparently in the Edo period when plays about ninja were popular, they were trying to figure out how to imply one's ninja-tude on the stage (Since in actuality ninja probably disguised themselves as monks, travellers, or something their enemy might not recognize as being an enemy of theirs). the stage hands wore all black during these plays to signify that they are not part of the play and should be ignored.

3 - ninja were used more for scouting and for infiltrating during a siege to keep the enemy on his toes and prepare him for the attack.

[IronFist]

Just avoid Ashida Kim/Chris Hunter/etc.

But you already knew that.

[Akhilleus]

My first ninjutsu instructor helped Ernie Reyes Jr. prepare for the film "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: the Secret of the Ooze."

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by SaekSan
Isn't this all you need to know about Ninja?

"1. Ninjas are mammals.

2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people."

www.realultimatepower.net


:D :D :D

:confused:

[FuXnDajenariht]

to be a break dancing ninja :D

every boys dream lol

[Oso]

Originally posted by cjurakpt
in regards to what the name Ninja means - it's not "stealers - in" _ I don't know where that came from, ut it's certainly not what the Chinese characters are for it: the Chinese characters that are used for it are "to endure", "to bear" or "patience" (yan - the character is composed of the heart radical underneath the character for "edge of a blade") and "person" (je - radical for venerable/old on top of character for sun)

I find it interesting about the character endurance that it is a blade hanging above a heart...

so a yanje was a man of endurance: when you consider that supposedly they could sit for hours on end inside a cesspool waiting for the person they were trying to kill to sit down on the commode in order to off him in a rather unceremonious manner, well, you get the idea...

anyway, just FYI; i don't know if all the other stuff is true...

me thinks this is, perhaps-ish, the most correct post here.
but, perhaps not. maybe.

when 'stealing in' is not enduring.

'chem mi ka'

maybe. or not.

[red5angel]

according to the "Illuminated Lantern":

"And before we do that, we need to define some terms. Just what is a ninja, anyway? The word itself derives from the Japanese Shinobi-no-mono, which is written with two kanji characters that can also be pronounced as nin-sha, if the Chinese pronunciation is used instead. The first character, nin, suggests concealment, while the second, sha, means person. Ninja: a person who hides his presence. In Japanese, the word is applied to a person who does covert, military operations"

http://www.illuminatedlantern.com/cinema/features/ninja.html

[Kaitain(UK)]

I know a few Genbukan guys and they're pretty good. The style emphasises a lot of traditional training - they recognise certain aspects as fairly useless for the real world, but they think it important to maintain tradition.

The Genbukan guys have a heavy influence of Bagua in their system - the top guy in their system trained under one of the top students after their master died, that top student's family all train bagua as well so it has a quite different flavour. The Genbukan schools do not teach Bagua though, just the senior guy when he's doing seminars around the world.

All of the students from the local school that I have met have been of a high standard.

[SaekSan]

If you go to the site you'll see one of the funniest ninja pages out there. The "hate mail" he gets is hilarious...

:)

[red5angel]

what site Saeksan?

[PangQuan]

I was informed that, also, ninjitsu is not considered a "martial art"
its a martial science. Since there is no representation of art or artfull purpose. It is designed to kill, not look good. Course this could be total bull sh!t

[PangQuan]

Ninpo is a martial system from Japan with roots extending centuries into history. The concept of Ninpo includes combat techniques (also known as ninjutsu) - non-combative skills for working one's will in the world - and philosophies and spiritual training.

As a martial system - all of these arenas are focused on enduring conflict succesfully - and the "nin" kanji in Japanese can be translated as "endurance" or "perseverance". Ninpo is characterized by some as "the art of winning".

Ninjutsu techniques comprise grappling - striking - and joint locks - all either unarmed or with weapons. Timing and distance are emphasized over speed and strength. Adaptability and economy of movement are prized.

[PangQuan]

if you want some good history read this. This paper deals with the development of the secretive warrior caste, throughout japanese history, part prior to chinese knowledge.

http://www.ninpo.org/ninpohistory/ninpohistory3terms.htm

[Ming Yue]

Very interesting reading:

http://people.howstuffworks.com/ninja.htm

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by SaekSan
If you go to the site you'll see one of the funniest ninja pages out there. The "hate mail" he gets is hilarious...

:)

Yeah, actually, I've read about the whole site now, and have been exploring the links. the fact that so many people obviously don't understand that the whole thing is a joke is the funniest part. It appears that even the alleged lawsuit against him is a joke, and very well presented.

Reminds me of manbeef.com :p

[FuXnDajenariht]

nin means perserverance me thinks...

[red5angel]

If you go to the site you'll see one of the funniest ninja pages out there. The "hate mail" he gets is hilarious...

is this the reaultimate power website?

[SaekSan]

Yup!

:)

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Take my statements with a grain of salt, its been a LONG TIME since I've read up on this subject....

Basically, NINJA as they are popularly known today (super secret warrior-assassin-spy type of agents) never existed.

Basically, what are now known as NINJA were originally SAMURAI with specialized training in espionage, infiltration, siege warfare, etc.... These Samurai were hired to perform special missions because of these skills, but the bottom line is that they were Samurai performing covert missions, not NINJA.

Back in the time when these kinds of things actually were going on, the Samurai who were hired to perform these missions were most commonly referred to as Shinobi. They were also referred to as Rappa in some circumstances, but if my memory serves me correctly, "RAPPA" is more a reference to being an outlaw such as a highwayman.

That is why, as another poster has already mentions, that some Samurai schools still have aspects to their curriculum for the Rappa/Shinobi/Ninja arts. These skills were not an art form unto themselves, but a part of the larger Samurai arts.

What we now know as NINJA came into being during the 17th century, roughly. The reason for this is because the Tokugawa Era brought peace to Japan. Suddenly, you had a whole nation full of professional soldiers out of work. Many went into other lines of work, but some began opening Ryu to teach and preserve their art (as well as earn a living).

Some of these Ryu's began to romanticize their "shinobi" aspects, creating the myth of the Ninja that survives to this day.

Basically, the art in and of itself is legitimate fighting technique and all, but the history that these schools claim isn't really accurate. Even schools that have supposed documentation to verirfy their ancient lineages... c'mon, its well know that Ieyasu Tokugawa forged documents proving his lineage so that he could rightfully claim the title of Shogun.... Do you think other people were above forging documents to turn a little coin?

I don't think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by studying the art. But you would be if you bought into their supposed history. Sure, its based on some truth, but its greatly embellished. For instance, their are many persons in Japanese history who are claimed to have been Ninja, but it just doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. Certain warriors and assassins from their ancient past are now claimed to have been important figures in the art of Ninjutsu, but in fact, they had little to nothing to do with it. Under close examination, they were merely thieves, opportunists, or extraordinary warriors.

I will again repeat that you should take what I say with a grain of salt because it has been a long time since I've actually read up on the subject, and I don't remember my references to give you actual quotes or a bibliography of sorts.

[kyklos]

pretty elaborate joke if Amazon is actually selling his book. ****.

wonder if its actually worth wasting so much time creating these idiotic books. How many people actually buy them?:confused:

the laugh only lasts for a couple seconds and then it gets lame.

[GeneChing]

Here's the ninja section (http://store.martialartsmart.net/ninjaitems.html) at MartialArtsMart.com. You'll find some resources there. It's actually one of the top selling categories.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
:confused:

you just displayed your age young man....;)

ninjas are tottally sweet

[red5angel]

Khun Kao, you're information mostly gels with mine so far. The only thing that differs for now is the fact that they were Samurai. I've never seen an official source claim that this was true, however, it was apprently very popular in the 16th and 17th centuries to fill in gaps in a famous samurai's life by saying he disappeared to become ninja for a time. This was mostly fictitious.
As for them being Samurai, mostly what I've come across has indicated that while there was some overlap, that it atleast wasn't always the case, and my guess is it wasn't as common as it might at first seem. The difference is mostly superficial really since the training was similar until the ninja began to train in the espionage and infiltration arts.
Of course like you, this must be taken with a grain of salt since I'm in the middle of my research.

I did find out a couple of interesting things, for example the ninja ryu's had names for the arts of walking silently and walking silemtly on rooftops, and several other non combative arts.

I also found out interestingly enough that there were even female Samurai. For a long time women of the Samurai "class" trained in most of the weapons their male counterparts did. these women were usually the wives of samurai or some other relation. They trained a soldiers to defend their homes and the clans lands and holdings. Even beyond that however, some women took up soldiering as a career, behaved, trained and were respected as Samurai.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
you just displayed your age young man....;)

ninjas are tottally sweet

'specially when they're flipping out hard :D

[Khun Kao Charuad]

red5angel....

Yeah, there is a lot I (necessarily) paraphrased and glossed over. The actual "martial art" of ninjutsu, as I understand it, is simply the samurai arts with the covert stuff mixed into it.

However, one thing that people have to realize is that a lot of the stuff attributed to Ninja (spying, sabotage, assassination) were done by commoners without any specific training. If you really think about it, there isn't much thats required.

Most spying is simply getting people to talk. You don't need any martial skills for that.

Sabotage? Ok, there is obviously skills needed to be successful, but they aren't martial arts skills.

And assassination? In most cases, assassins are opportunists, not warriors. In some of the actual historical cases of assassination in Japanese history that have been attributed by some to "ninja", it simply does not hold up. They were people with no special militiraristic skills who simply had an opportunity.

Look at assassination today. Very few assassins actually have any real training. Lincoln, Garfield, Reagan, Archduke Fernidand, Pope John Paul III.... any many, many others. Those attacks were more the work of opportunity than training.

There is the noted exception of Kennedy, of course.

Women Samurai were not uncommon, as I understand as well. The Naginata was supposedly the females preferred weapon.

[joedoe]

I read the same sort of information in a book a short while ago. It was a story of an Iaido practitioner who had gone to Japan to find his old sensei and to train a bit. He describes an old fortress he visited and was visualising how an army might have positioned itself to try and take the fortress, and in the process talks about how the Ninja were nothing but specially trained Samurai and that the bulk of the Ninja legend is just that - a legend.

Interesting stuff.

[anton]

Real astral spy in action finally captured on video!! (http://img154.exs.cx/img154/9453/126bx.gif)

Sorry felt this thread needed a bit of comic relief.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by anton
Real astral spy in action finally captured on video!! (http://img154.exs.cx/img154/9453/126bx.gif)

Sorry felt this thread needed a bit of comic relief.

Ahahahaha. That is hilarious. :D :D :D