Lotus Kick in Chum Kiu

[Roy D. Anthony]

How many here practice the Chum Kiu with a Lotus kick. If so what part of the form?

[fa_jing]

Are you talking about a kick where the knee is raised so high that the foot covers the groin, then the front kick thrusts out to the side? I think this is in the original way that Yip Man taught the form in Hong Kong, to start the last section of the form. I am thinking of the pictures of Yip Man performing the form found in Leung Ting's book. We do not practice this kick at all in my school. Do you know the application?
-FJ

[Roy D. Anthony]

As a matter of fact I do.
and yes that is the kick I am referring to.
Does anyone else use it?

[fa_jing]

to spill the beans. What is this kick for?
-FJ

[fmann]

The Lotus Kick as I've seen in the form has 1 problem: it's only practiced on one side. Supposedly according to lore/rumor, Yip Man had a bit of a tightness with his right hip and only did the kick on one side, though he told his students to practice both sides.

As for the application... one thing I've seen that's very useful is in turning -- when you do this "side front kick", you can drop your foot to the side and immediately pull your hips square to meet the side threat. Just like front kick is a step, this kick is a turning step.

Try it opposed to a side kick with the turning and tell us how it goes.

[wingchunner]

I don't believe the kick in Chum Kil is an actual kick, it's a step.

Be true and loving.
http://wingchun.ereasons.net

[dzu]

All kicks are steps and all steps are kicks.

I've seen some branches do a side kick (Wang Gerk) and others use the Lotus Kick (Bai Lien Gerk). Some do only 1 kick and others do 2.

Sometimes the lotus kick is a shift of the horse but the kick is still linear and to the front, and other times the kick is slightly circular, similar to an inside to outside crescent kick.

How to apply it? Sometimes the straight line is obstructed so you have to go around to attack. If I'm in close, I can use a lop sau and Bai Lien Gerk to kick his kidney or floating ribs while controlling his structure. That's one example I can think off the top of my head. It's a matter of preference I think.


Dzu

[Kung Lek]

hi-

In Chum Kiu, there are both left and right lotus kicks striking at chest level.
the first, is to the right after stepping back into kim yeung ma (holding fist with side facing stance) then double low bong sau, then double tan sau, double low bong sau, double tan sau, double bong sau, then spear hands, then press, then push, then chamber both fists, then comes the left lotus kick.

This sequence occurs in the last third of the form.

I study a Nam Siu Lam style and Bak Sil Lum, north and south shaolin. Wing Chun is a distillation of Shaolin Kung Fu. All that is within Wing Chun is found in many different Sil Lum styles. Just in different forms and in different order. Applications will vary with any technique. Any practitioner should know at least three applications to any technique, sometimes more, both defensive and offensive.

Lotus Kick is exactly what the name implies, a Kick. Striking with the knife edge of the foot to the soft midsection, ribs, sternum, solar plexus, or essentially the midsection of your opponent while standing not face on but to a 45 degree angle to them or to the side of them.

Yip Man taught Wing Chun as a system. What he knew beyond just the wing chun was plenty, he may not have imparted more of the shaolin kung fu knowledge he had.
He was also known to do wing chun both in the traditional way as above and in the reformist way.
There are numerous photographs of Yip Man displaying the sets using the traditional way and the reformist way on the same technique.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[fa_jing]

We practice side kicks instead, in the Chum Kil form - but from your descriptions of the kick, we do practice it - as part of a four-directional kicking drill from the ground. -FJ

[wingchunalex]

my wing chun has the lotus kick in chim kiu too. i don't do it as a direction change after the lower bong saus going to the left we just do like a military pivot (i can't explain it any other way) then we do the lotus kick right before the gum sau and punching section. i was told that the kick realy isn't a kick, its a block for a kick, you sort of outside cresent kick (lotus kick) at kick away from you. we don't practice it because it doesn't seem to be very effective and it doesn't really go along with the rest of wing chun, just like how the pole from really doesn't fit with wing chun, it was just added because they happend to be on boats a lot and it was something they had around so they learned to use it.

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[Ozihn]

Stop being so dang smart :p :D

[chessGMwannabe]

the way that I was taught the lotus kick in chum kiu was that it was not a single kick to taken literally for a real application, but more of a combination of four kicks or so that kind of flow into eachother, the real beauty of wing chun's footwork. that the kicks rather than being set techniques are fluid principles that can be used together, so you really have an infinite number of kicks, like the lotus kick. that's what I was taught anyways.
--kevin

[chessGMwannabe]

"Lotus Kick is exactly what the name implies, a Kick. Striking with the knife edge of the foot to the soft midsection. . ."
the way I was taught, you don't strike with the knife of your foot. it's pretty crazy how many variations different schools have of the same techniques. : )

[joy chaudhuri]

Kunglek: Wing chun devloped its own integration
and ctructure and dynamics even though it emerged
out of siu lum.Things may look similar but are not the same.

chessGMwannabe: I dont call it a lotus kick but yes the
last kick of chum kiu can be delivered several different ways including a circular slicing motion. But you are also right- you dont and shouldnt have to land with the knife edge of the foot.
BTW- chess wannabee- do you have a chess rating?
Above 2000? below? Above 1800? below? USCf? FIDE?
just curious.