Sifus choice

[Radplaiddude]

The school i go to teaches you 4 basic forms and after that Sifu decides if your going to learn Mantis or Hungar. Since im a 6-1' 210 pound guy i think im doomed . What i mean by that was i wanted to learn Mantis so i could build upon it at my next duty station ie Sifu Desargos school in SD. Sifu says he will look at how you move and make a descision. I told him that i wanted to learn mantis. He explained it like if a big guy was learning monkey kung fu he may look like King kong. LOL. Any ways im going to cross my fingers work hard and hope for the best.
Mantis 108- Did Gm Chui also teach Hungar. ????
I have no problems with Hungar since i know nothign about it. Just wanted to have something to build upon when i moved again.

[-N-]

Mantis has something for each body type and fighting preference. Big guys can do mantis.

N.

[Three Harmonies]

I'm 6'3" 220 pounds and I do Mantis. I think I look goofy doing the forms, but I can slam someones head on the pavement pretty hard with "Cut Waist" ;)
I agree with -N- Mantis has something for everyone. Wei Xiao Tang was a big guy and he did mantis! Lo Kwan Yu was big!

If it is in your heart, go with mantis.
Cheers
Jake:D

[Oso]

lol, got you trumped Jake!

Jake is taller but I'm heavier...so, I think I look sillier doing forms than he does.

but, you can be the judge


also, I think BTL is a pretty big guy and another of Sifu Cottrell's students, bund da i think, is also big.

so, don't give up...just think faaaaaast.

[BeiTangLang]

6'2" (maybe 3",...I don't remember really), 300 lbs.

Another here is 6'2", 260 or so.

Pick what you want to do. You will take your training more to heart.

[Oso]

I think we might be missing his original intent.

It seems as if his teacher will be deciding his training style and not him.

Not sure how I feel about that, objectively.

I know I would hate it if I were not allowed to train what I wanted.

[SaMantis]

Question for more experienced mantis folks: If radplaiddude has to train hung gar, will he have enough of a foundation from the basic forms to switch over to mantis?

I'm not sure about the teacher deciding the training style either, but it sounds like a custom from very traditional schools.

[sayloc]

It seems that I am the runt. 6ft 2in 190lb:)

A good instructor should be able to teach you not matter what size, if he is teaching a good style.

You may want to remember that if you did mantis in a chinwoo school (not speaking for all chin woo of course) you would spent alot of time learining the fundamental northern long fist forms to develop a foundation befere you get to the "mantis". I know of other schools that teach tien chien pai forms for a foundation along with eagle claw.

Many eagle claw schools teach the same fundamental northern sets before you get to the "eagle claw"

I did the eagle claw route with the northern fist forms, gung lik and similar forms. I have to admit I never practice or teach them any more.

Maybe this is the instructors approach.

Hung ga is a great system and it is great to build a foundation. It is very indepth in its training and fighting theories.

Just remember when you go to a mantis school to ask about thier curriculum and when you would be introduced to the "mantis" techniques.

[yu shan]

"I know I would hate if I were not allowed to train what I wanted" I have sort of been there on this one. In my case, either my KF brothers were allowed to take a certain seminar while I was told to stay and work around the school, or just plain told no I cannot learn this seminar, a seminar open to the public. I do not hold my students back, I let them learn, if they get it fine. If they don`t get it is there fault, I`ll help them with the material anyway. Life is too short. JMO!

[mantis108]

GM Chiu never taught Hung Gar. Actually, he had quite a few student from different Hung Gar lineages that came to him. He did find that Weng Chun (cousin style of Hung Gar and Wing Chun) are very similar to his mantis Kung Fu. So... May be it's your Sifu's choice to teach Hung Gar as well. May be he sees something in you that others including yourself are not fully aware of? I guess the best thing is have a good talk with him.

I agreed with others here that size really isn't an issue. Agility like flexibility is an acquired attribute. The thing is they are both "chores"; hence, Kung Fu. It requires big time discipline to train those. Of course for some gifted ones, that's not even an issue. If there is will, there is a way. I have had students that are close to or over 6 feet , some are even close to 225 - 250 lbs range (mostly of them are around 180 - 190 range). Yes, there are military folks as well. In fact, I have an officier rank (Major) student who wished to have 8 hours just to train Kung Fu. Military folks are solidly build not necessarily agile nor flexible. They are often hard working and very enthusatic [re: Gung Ho] about everything. I love working with them. Having said that I don't mean to say that I am a super duper Kung Fu guy. I am just a petite mantis stylist who love to share with others the beauty of the art. The idea is to say that size isn't an issue when taking up mantis training. Will power, discipline and heart are the determining factors whether you will fit into the style or not IMHO.

I am sure your Sifu has his good reasons in designing the training program the way it is. So, enjoy the ride, my friend. :)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[shirkers1]

Ha 6' 1'' 170lbs have you all beat well accept for robert. Hee hee. Oh well size doesn't always matter. ;)


The thing with mantis is it can work for all sizes or body types. You can just simply excel in areas that smaller guys can't and vice versa, it's no big deal. If it's mantis you have seen and feel you would like to train in then I would steer towards that for sure rather than be forced to train in a style that you have no knowledge of. That doesn't make sense to me at all. Mixing of styles is very tricky because each style has it's own way of creating power and on down the line. I think it's a bad Idea to start learning a style just to train another style down the road. Unless they are very similar in mechanics things could get very confusing and stunt the progress of your learning.

[premier]

I'm switching from Choy lee fut to 7 stars NPM at the moment. As you propably know, CLF and Hung gar have a few things in common.

I'm my limited experience, the switch is relatively easy. The two arts are fundamentally different, but there is a lot of similarities. The body moves different, but most of the hand techniques are essentially the same. However, it wouldn't have been easy without the body condition and coordination and understanding of fighting concepts acquired in CLF.

So basically I'm saying a year or less studying hung gar won't do any harm. You'll get fit and learn the basic fighting concepts. You'll propably see some similarities in the techniques too. After all a kick is a kick and a punch is a punch.

The power generation in these two arts couldn't be more different from another however. So with limited body coordination and experience you might have hard time adapting. But you'll learn, so don't worry. Studying Hung gar longer will however take you to a level this won't matter that much due to the added coordination and understanding.

I've noticed that learning abilities, when it comes to MA's, increase drastically during the first 4 years studying MA's.

[Skarbromantis]

Here I am trying to loose weight, I'm 5"10, 218, I'm trying to go down to 200.

Your in a hard place, dont know what advice to give, try to express how you feel...keep us posted.

Skard1

[El Tejon]

6'2", 195 lbs. here. Barrel chested, big shoulders and meaty forearms of a Wing Chun dude (that's where I come from)

If you want to move more gracefully, then, in my experience. limited as it is, practice your footwork every practice. Advance, recede, lateral, angle, and, especially monkey step. You will burn more calories and train your body to move under our weight.

I do envy my fellow students who are much lighter than I am. Some guys I train with even look mantisy, thin with long arms and large hands.:eek: :D

However, we have a student who is 6'4" and 320. He came to us after training in Black Tiger and is doing very well. (I had to do arm and leg conditioning with him tonight--ouch!).

[Oso]

ok, 53 is way too many downloads of that pic...some of you guys must think Jake's pretty cute. :D :p ;)

[LawClansman]

Just for your info,
This lineage: Sifu Desargos who learned from Sifu Puyot, who learned from Stephen laurette who learned from Chiu Leun, Lee Kam Wing and myself.
Here in the New York group Chiu leun, Myself, Stephen Laurette all know and practice Hung Kuen. In my school I teach both Mantis and Hung Kuen still to those that want to learn them. So no harm in learning it. However, Size doesn't really matter in mantis style. Its an old (and wrong) notion that mantis is for small or skinny guys. I am 6' 240lbs, 52 years old and have no prob with speed or technique or endurance. I don't know if that really answers your queston but the point is that many people practice more than one style.
http://www.7starmantis.com

[Radplaiddude]

You guys are a big help. I ve been taking getting back into the arts seriously. Working on flexability, ever day. One thing about my school is Im paying for lessons like most of you do. SO when your paying you should be able to decide on what type of training you want to receive. I m going to have to impress on Sifu that i want a foundation that i can take with me to Sifu Desargos school when i get transfered. Hope they send me back to SD. When SIfu speaks i really have to listen up. He has an accent that i have to get used to. His english is way better than my chinese, and Vietnamese. HAHA. Rad