Kuoshu fighting tourney in Madison, WI

[SaekSan]

Hello everyone,

Just finalized talks with a local Karate tournament promoter and he would like for us to run a Kuoshu Style Fighting Division within his tournament. So this is a call out to all of you who have fought or would like to fight under these rules.

Here's the information so far:

Name of event: 5th BELT Championship Tournament
Location: James Madison Memorial High School Fieldhouse
Madison, WI
Date: Saturday, May 21st 2005
Time: Starts at 9:00am and goes until 5:00pm

Keep in mind that this will be the first time this event has happened around here, we will be organizing a committee for this. We have 4 certified Kuoshu referees for the event but we will use (and need) volunteers for this so it will run smoothly.

We will have a volunteers meeting that will be held on Friday 5/20/04 (details will follow on this).

We will also hold a comprehensive Kuoshu Lei Tai rules meeting on Thursday 5/19/05.

In the interim, anyone interested in showing up to our school on a Thursday night (San Shou night) to get a feel for the type of fighting or just wants to talk about it is more than welcome to stop by:

www.zykfa.org

If you would like more info/updates please contact us at:

info@zykfa.org

Thank you,

Nelson

[SaekSan]

1.Competitors must wear approved headgear, gloves, mouthpiece, and groin cup. Female competitors must also wear a chest protector. No shin pads, chest protectors (for males) or braces will be allowed.

2.Rounds will be 2 minutes each. Winner of 2 rounds wins (maximum amount of rounds is 3).

3.Scoring:
o Contestant executes clear punch or kick - 1 point.
o Contestant executes clear punch or kick that knocks opponent down - 2 points.
o Without falling, contestant successfully throws opponent to the ground - 2 points.
o Both falling during throw, contestant who lands on top (in control) - 1 point
o Contestant forces or throws opponent off fighting area - 3 points.
o Through own error, contestant loses balance - 1 point deduction
o Contestant executes clear elbow/knee technique without holding - 1 point

4.Penalties:
o Contact to the eyes, throat, back of the head, or groin is illegal. For female competitors, contact to the breast area is also illegal.
o Techniques using the head are illegal.
o Fouls:
First violation: 1 point deduction
Second violation: 3 point deduction
Third violation: disqualification

o Technical Fouls:
First violation: warning
Second violation: 1 point deduction
Third violation: disqualification
oAny serious foul will be grounds for immediate disqualification.

5.Fighters who maliciously hurt their opponents will be held liable for any damages or injuries. The referee has full authority to stop the fight at any time for safety or any other reason.

RULES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE IF NEEDED (Insurance companies you know). If you want to be informed of changes make sure to e-mail us for the updates.

Once again, thank you.

[red5angel]

Hey SaekSan, you're in Madison?

I probably won't participate in this but I may try to make it out.

[SaekSan]

Sure! Come on down anytime!

:)

[SiuHung]

Saeksan, you have piqued my interest. I'll contact you soon.

[red5angel]

keeerist I didn't realize you were that close. Sure man, even if I can't make it for this event we'll have to arrange something at some point here, maybe this summer.

[SaekSan]

Great to hear from you!

I look forward to talking to you soon and also to hear your input on this as well.

:)

[SaekSan]

Yup! Just about 4 hours... right?

You know, after the fight I'm planning a Brazilian BBQ (Churrasco) party over at my place (not for everyone at the tourney just the close friends and students), there'll be plenty of meat, Brazilian music and I'm sure, beer. It would be great if you could come.

I really want to turn this into a memorable event for all involved.



:)

[red5angel]

you got room for a roda? Maybe I can bring a few Cap freinds :D

[SaekSan]

I'm sure we can have room bring the birimbau, pandeiro and atabaque and we're in!

:D

[red5angel]

awesome, I'll see what I can work up. Actually, there are a couple of guys in my cap class who have expressed some interest in doing some fighting. One of them trains and teaches TKD and Capoeira, and has done point fighting in the past, and the other two are training pretty hard in muy thai to fight. I'll mention this and see if there is any interest.

[Royal Dragon]

Are there ever any events in Chicago?

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Are there ever any events in Chicago?

RD, check your PM

[Akhilleus]

I'll do what I can to bring a team from Maryland...talk to some people this week...might be hard with some of my guys' school schedules...at the very least I would like to come out to help...

[SaekSan]

Red:

If they want to come that's great, I can get you the info on detailed rules and what not. Also I would recommend for them (and you!) to show up some time to get a feeling for the whole thing. Just tell me when it's good for you guys.

RD:

In terms of Kuoshu I think this is as close to Chicago as you're going to get. Come on it's only 2 1/2 hours... :)

Akhilleus:

Great to her from you! The crew will be stoked if you show up and even more so with a group! Thank you so much for considering it. If you're coming just contact me and I'll make arrangements for you, we'll figure something out.

We figured that May would be a good time since it gives everyone about eight weeks before the USCKF event. Any injuries should heal by then :D

Once again thank you!

[red5angel]

I'll talk to the guys tomorrow and see if they are interested. I'm hoping we can get a couple of carloads of people to come out, even if it's just to watch and hang out.

[SaekSan]

Good to hear it will be fun either way!

:D

[Akhilleus]

Yeah Saek San...I'm going to look into getting my plane ticket soon...I have to get some insurance issues straightened out...so I probably won't be able to fight...but I'll try to bring some people from my school...

[SaekSan]

Akhilleus,

Excellent to hear! I will keep you updated on this.

Please keep in mind that we will probably be using a wrestling mat (the big ones) as the competion area (not a lei tai) and that it will be held at a high school (not as nice as the ballroom in Hunt Valley).

Once again, thank you.

:)

[red5angel]

Saeksan, how friendly is this sort of thing to Capoeira Techniques?


Also, it sounds like I got enough interest that we will probably show up. As we get closer I'll keep you updated. I mentioned Brazillian Barbecue and their eyes lit up.

[SaekSan]

Everyone loves a Brazilian BBQ!!! :D

How friendly are the rules? hmmm...

Equipment might be an issue, the helmet might be a little tough to get used to and the gloves too (although they are not as restrictive as boxing gloves).

Keep in mind the scoring, clean throws, knockdowns and being thrown out of the area score high (2-3 pts depending on the technique). Only "trembling shock" strikes count as points. Any technique that would seem like the fighter lost balance or fell to the ground while executing it would be a loss of points (1 per infraction), touching hands to the ground would be considered loss of balance altough they allow you to do a low sweep so long as it is clean and the execution of the movement created a fall. So "estrelas" would not be allowed but a "rabo-de-arraia" that scores a point would work... but only if it scores the point! Being pushed out of the area three times in one round is considered a loss of the fight.

Another thing to consider, if the fighters are avoiding each other for more than 5 seconds they will be warned, if it continues, loss of points and a third infraction would disqualify them, so it makes it tough to set up with ginga...

Overall I would say it's not "friendly" to all techniques, but so long as you can adapt your style to work within the rules you will be fine.

If any of you would like to come down before hand we could set something up at my school so you all can have a better feel for the rules in action and we can clarify any points that might be in the "gray" area. That way your guys can train with a clear idea of what will be accepted and not at the tournament.

How does that sound?

:)

[red5angel]

I thought of equipment when I asked the question but it's posisble to just nix some techniques that would be restricted by gloves or helmet.

how about mealua? (Again, spelling may be wrong but you probably understand what I'm saying!) You have to touch the ground for that, well you don't have to but I would prefer it in a fight since my power generation is weaker with no hands.
Would Au be a problem as well?
AS for Ginga, we work constantly on not doing Ginga for too long or at all between transitions. I can't really see avoidance as an issue since the key in capoeira is to be aggressive and keep your opponent guessing.
So is it possible to touch the ground if it's not an obvious loss of balance?

[SaekSan]

"meia-lua" souldn't be a problem so long as you are able to score, any striking technique that touches the ground so long as you score should be fine.

Now in terms of throws, keep this in mind too, if any part of your body other than your feet (e.g. knees, hands, elbow, etc...) touches the ground prior to the throw it will NOT be counted. This is important to remember specially if you are used to shooting in wrestling. Touch the knee on the ground, fight stops.

The ginga comment would be more if people aren't used to fast fighting, so long as the guys don't spend too much time on it it should be fine.

Q: "is it possible to touch the ground if it's not an obvious loss of balance?"
A: Only if you score!

:D

[SaekSan]

For further information directly from the tournament organizer please contact:

USA "Belt" Commissioner
Sensei Guy Lee Fields
(608) 244-5350
guyfields@charter.net

Please keep in mind that he (Mr. Fields) would NOT be able to answer any questions regarding the Kuoshu event. He will, however, be able to send you forms and answer any questions about the event in general.

Oh, also, some of my forms students will be there to compete too so if anyone wants to compete in forms only you are more than welcome to do so, they have open hand and weapons events, keep in mind though this is a Karate tournament open to all styles.

We will also be performing a lion dance for the opening of the event... if any of you are into that kinda thing.

:D

[red5angel]

no forms in capoeira although if there was the possibility of a demo we might be able to work up something like that?

The only thorw grapple technique I know real well at the moment is "vengativa" and nothing but my feet should touch the ground in that :D

[SaekSan]

Ooops...

Sorry Red, the last post was meant for anyone reading the topic.

Yeah, I'll talk to the organizer. Come to think of it I might talk to the local Capoeira group and see if they want to get together.

:)

[red5angel]

Let me know if you want a demo, the sooner the better. Also, if you talk to the local Cap guys, or give me a contact email, I'd like to see if they would be interested in playing a little while we're there. Especially if you're going to be throwing a brazillian bbq!

[SaekSan]

Sure, I'll see what I can do. Although right now will be a little tough since I'm focused on Chinese New Year and we have 18 Lion Dances coming up...

:D

[red5angel]

no rush, we have a couple of months. Do you know what group they study under?

[SaekSan]

Omulu Capoeira is the name of the group and the instructors name is Joe "Marola", they're under Mestre Preguica from San Francisco.

Here's their website:

www.madisoncapoeira.com

[red5angel]

cool, nice to see another capoeira group so "close" to us :P It would be cool to get a roda going with them while we're out there and if they are open to that sort of thing. Are they regional or something close?

[SaekSan]

I'm pretty sure it's senzala... but I could be wrong (that's nothing new! :D ).

They have an open roda every once in while, so they should be open for friendly exchange.

To be honest things between me and this group have not always been good. The instructor is good friends with my ex-wife's husband and my divorce was pretty messy (long story). To top it off when I was younger (and dumber) I had a pretty poor opinion of Capoeira in the US and wasn't afraid to voice it or prove it... ahhhh the days of young arrogance.

:D

[red5angel]

LOLm, it still looks sort of wierd to me to see a bunch of really white people doing it but the brazillians we know love it and love us for doing it!

So are you american or Brazilian now living in america?

We'd love to do more open roda here but the other big group in the cities is led by a complete ass. The guy is brazilian, who is sort of old school in his thinking. He's shown up at a ocuple of rodas but spent all his time critiscizing our group. It's sad really.

[SaekSan]

I think Capoeira has come a long way here, just like CMA. Most people who teach it because it's "cool" don't stick around for long.

The same thing that plagues any martial art will do the same to Capoeira. You have people who don't know the real thing that teach it, then you have people that think that just because they're Brazilian means that they know the real thing and some times have spent less time in a roda than most "gringos" that are serious about the art.

I see this happen all of the time, in almost every MA. I was one of those a-holes myself. Always looking to criticize and never recognize... insecurity, that's all. The guy probably feels threatened by the work of your group.

"are you american or Brazilian now living in america?"

I was born in NY but raised from 6 to 18 in Rio. My father is Brazilian and my mother American... you could say I'm both.

To boot my parents have been in MA for a long time, my dad in Judo and my mother a Tai Chi Chuan teacher and a TCM doctor. Growing up around Asian customs and traditions, looking like an American kid but with Brazilian attitude... I still can't figure out where I'm supposed to fit.

I guess you could say I'm just here, being.
;)

[red5angel]

I know what you mean. Capoeira has all the issues all other martial arts do, just in different proportions. I'm not going to bother with the politics and all that crap in it though. You don't want to roda with us then you're missing out on a chance to learn, and that's your bad not mine. I'm sure this guy here in the cities, his students would appreciate being able to mingle with other capoeira students but he won't let them.


LOL!

[SaekSan]

Yup!

As you said, it's his loss. :)

One day his students will see him for who he is, just keep the door open and they'll find their way to your group.

:)

[red5angel]

hey Saek, what's your real name?

[SaekSan]

Nelson Ferreira

:)

[red5angel]

Kewl, My instructor wants me to contact the group in Madison to see if they are open to doing a roda while we're out there. Some of my fellow calssmates have a bad taste in their mouth since the lats couple of events they tried to get going locally were sort of ruined by another capoeira group in the area, the on I mentioned above. If you don't mind I'm going to mention you're name as who I got the webstie and info from?

[SaekSan]

That's fine, you might want to mention the school name too (Zhong Yi Kung Fu Association) just in case the name doesn't ring a bell.

Good luck!

:)

[red5angel]

I got in touch with someone there at the Omulu school. Whoever it was seemed pretty cool and thought it would be a good idea to get together to roda as well. I told him I'd get him more details once I knew what was going on. Seems like there's enough of a reason to start pushing now to see who wants to go so we can see if it's feasible.

[SaekSan]

Good to hear! Sounds like it will be productive. The guys I've met from there a pretty cool. You guys should have a good time.

:)