Round House Kicks

[Jhapa]

which part of foot do you guys use for roundhouse kicks?

[IronFist]

The shin :)

Are you talking about if you should kick with the instep or pull the foot back and kick with the toes? I would pick instep, even tho it's possible to break because it's a lot of small bones, because I'd be afraid of jamming my toes or something. I think it would be difficult to kick someone hard with a roundhouse kick using the ball of your foot, especially in the middle of combat.

[Jhapa]

i like to use the top of my foot/shin, but my school i am told to use ball of my foot. with my left foot, i have no problem but with my right foot, i have had foot and ankle injuries and unable to use ball of my foot, always jamming my toe. if i recall correctly from my tkd days(that was long time ago), we use to use the top of our foot.

[Mo Lung]

Originally posted by IronFist
I think it would be difficult to kick someone hard with a roundhouse kick using the ball of your foot, especially in the middle of combat. Not at all. Same as anything - train it on the bags and then start to apply it in sparring. However, if you have injuries that affect aspects of your trianing, then you need to take that into account.

[Sim Koning]

I use the shin most of the time. Getting hit with a thai style kick feels like getting hit with a baseball bat. I use the instep when kicking to the head and neck and I use more of a snapping motion when kicking that high for the sake of speed.

[Strangler]

what is you guys's opinion on the cresent kick? WHy doesn't anyone use it in mma?

[Water Dragon]

Dig in with the shin.

[Judge Pen]

Instep to shin area. Gives you more striking surface and room for error in range.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Strangler
what is you guys's opinion on the cresent kick? WHy doesn't anyone use it in mma?

because you would get taken down. years or testing has shown that in MMA competitions, low line kicks work best. The kicks with the most success are the teep and roundhouse. If you are thai boxing, and the leg goes high, you are setting yourself up for a cut kick. that said, high kicks are still performed, but are generally used with caution.

Also, from a power perspective, the crescent kick is inferior to the above mentioned kicks.

[David Jamieson]

Instep and shin.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SevenStar
because you would get taken down. years or testing has shown that in MMA competitions, low line kicks work best. The kicks with the most success are the teep and roundhouse. If you are thai boxing, and the leg goes high, you are setting yourself up for a cut kick. that said, high kicks are still performed, but are generally used with caution.

Also, from a power perspective, the crescent kick is inferior to the above mentioned kicks.

This just in...

Crecent kicks can be aimed at the knees and ribs. They don't have to be high. My hip flexibility is horrible. I get much more power with a crescent than a roundhouse.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress...

[SevenStar]

yohu're right, they can be - no need to interrupt our regularly scheduled programming for that. A crescent to the ribs will still likely result in a takedown, due to the chambering of the leg. If you are able to step in on it prior to its extension.

as for your hip, you can't turn your hip over for a roundhouse? or are you opening your hips before the kick?

[norther practitioner]

I don't know how you'd chamber a cresent kick?

[SevenStar]

do you not chamber the same way you would chamber a front snapping kick? most people I have trained with throw them that way.

[Reggie1]

Originally posted by SevenStar
do you not chamber the same way you would chamber a front snapping kick? most people I have trained with throw them that way.

We don't. We keep the leg straight and swing in an arc.

But we're also taught to use them only in very specific situations.

[Becca]

Originally posted by SevenStar
do you not chamber the same way you would chamber a front snapping kick? most people I have trained with throw them that way.
Nope. A cresent kick is done with a strait leg. You start it off exactly like a stiff leg swing aimed to the side of your target, then at the apex of your natural swig, you torq your hips in the direction (in or out) of you target to get the arc. Leg will return to it's starting position naturally if you succesfully kick through or miss. Will turn your body to the side if you connect solidly, with sets you up nicely for a follow-up technique.

[Judge Pen]

I've seen an outside cresent kick thrown with a chamber to get more of a whipping action to it, but the leg's in the same position at the moment of contact as if it was thrown with a straight-line arc the entire time.

My hip flexibility is bad too, but I have learned to poen my hips up prior to throwing the kick through footwork. I only throuw round-house kicks whn I'm in position to generate a lot of power on them by my position. Most of the time I use front thrust and side kciks along with my hands to move into position. My cresent kicks have some pop on them, but I've found there better for a set-up then a finishing technique. At least for me.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SevenStar
yohu're right, they can be - no need to interrupt our regularly scheduled programming for that. A crescent to the ribs will still likely result in a takedown, due to the chambering of the leg. If you are able to step in on it prior to its extension. Like everyone else said, no chamber. Though, I will admit, they are easier to catch than a roundhouse.


as for your hip, you can't turn your hip over for a roundhouse? or are you opening your hips before the kick? I have like freakishly narrow hips, and I've even had X-rays to see if something is wrong with them, but they are just narrow. I have trouble opening my hips on any roundhouse kick thrown above thigh level. To go higher, I basically have to turn sideways and lean way back, which puts me way off center and an easy target for a sweep. So, they aren't my main staple.

For the most part, I throw front heel kicks like they are going out of style to set my hands up or enter the clinch. I'm just not much of a kicker.

[norther practitioner]

Almost all my outside crecents would be thrown with the intent of getting around the shoulder and landing it in an axe kick motion.... inside is like a slap with the bottom of the foot.

[Ming Yue]

our crescent kick chambers exactly like our front kick, and our round kick. We train a high knee centerline chamber on all our kicks, gives us options without telegraphing.

The path of the foot is something like a light bulb shape.


we do have a 2 man drill with a straight leg crescent, but that's it.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
Almost all my outside crecents would be thrown with the intent of getting around the shoulder and landing it in an axe kick motion.... inside is like a slap with the bottom of the foot. We make contact with the in-side of the foot or in-side of the shin. Outside/Spinning Outside crescent is the same, except we use out-side of the foot/shin.

[norther practitioner]

I don't know if I'm that precise with it yet.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
I don't know if I'm that precise with it yet. When you do Yi Lu Mai Fu and you come up from the sitting stance to start the second road, you do a left inside crescent kick with the leg straight, followed by a slap to the right foot, right? That's how we throw crescents.

[norther practitioner]

OK...

me too.. I'm just saying when I actually throw it sparring,

[SifuAbel]

I posted this before on another thread and might be appropriate here.

roundhouse kick (http://home.earthlink.net/~sifuabel/kick2.mpg)

Note: this is just one way we thow it so please no "what if" questions regarding which leg and so on. Also to preempt the foot question, I have to adjust for the grass and dirt otherwise I would just turn the foot as I kicked.

[Swordless]

I prefer the top of the foot as opposed to the ball, because I feel like I can get better power/accuracy out of it.

We chamber our crescents as well, due to the not wanting to telegraph that someone mentioned earlier.

Hip flexibility is definitely an issue. I don't have any problems but I have a friend that has trouble turning his hip over - it starts to hurt after too many roundhouses in a row.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Becca
Nope. A cresent kick is done with a strait leg. You start it off exactly like a stiff leg swing aimed to the side of your target, then at the apex of your natural swig, you torq your hips in the direction (in or out) of you target to get the arc. Leg will return to it's starting position naturally if you succesfully kick through or miss. Will turn your body to the side if you connect solidly, with sets you up nicely for a follow-up technique.

the few I know who do throw it that way have a tendency to put too much weight on their front leg when they return it to the ground. Makes leg kicking them a tad easier.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
[B]I've seen an outside cresent kick thrown with a chamber to get more of a whipping action to it, but the leg's in the same position at the moment of contact as if it was thrown with a straight-line arc the entire time.[./b]

yes - that's what I was referring to in the post about chambering the kick.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Swordless
I prefer the top of the foot as opposed to the ball, because I feel like I can get better power/accuracy out of it.


what about instep vs shin?

[IronFist]

Crescent kicks are good for warming up, I think. I've never tried to use one in sparring, tho.

It's like a leg lift except you bring your leg over (in or out) at the top to try and hit the guy, right? How much do you guys bend your knees?

[Swordless]

Originally posted by SevenStar
what about instep vs shin?

Instep in that case b/c we never train specifically to hit with our shins, although I practice it on my own sometimes.

Then again, I've got a bag at home I can practice hitting with my shins, whereas we don't have bags at the studio, only small focus mits, which we hit with the instep.

[Becca]

Originally posted by SevenStar
the few I know who do throw it that way have a tendency to put too much weight on their front leg when they return it to the ground. Makes leg kicking them a tad easier.
I have had people try it on me, but the cresent done right is a bit too fast to actually get in before the leg returns. Also, if you add a moon jump/bolck on the "return" you also avoid sweeps. This is a very expolsive technique, IME, and it's very easy to morph into something else if you opponant correctly counters it.

[Strangler]

what about the ax kick? Why do some styles like kyoukishin use it often and others don't at all?

[Strangler]

SevenStar thinks all kicks or attacks that aren't muay thai suck I bet.

By the way, Becca ever try jumping in mid air with left low cresent kick and before you hti the opponent you just fake it and retreat your leg than come with the right high cresent kick while still in mid air to the face? I just developed this technique on my own I wonder if anybody else tried it?

[Becca]

It is not so much they don't have it, as they don't use it much. I know it's part of Pai Lum, but called something else. (Can't remember the name right now) I also know it is not taught untill the very highst levels, because it is believed that a student has a better chance of not being injured or causing injury at these levels.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Strangler
SevenStar thinks all kicks or attacks that aren't muay thai suck I bet.

By the way, Becca ever try jumping in mid air with left low cresent kick and before you hti the opponent you just fake it and retreat your leg than come with the right high cresent kick while still in mid air to the face? I just developed this technique on my own I wonder if anybody else tried it? I have seen it used, but I am not bouncy enough to do it.

[Strangler]

what I like to do is instead of throwing a thai kick to my opponents legs I throw a cresent kick except my toes are pointed straight. I hit with the toes or the part of the foot that comes after the toe, and I do it to the side of my opponents kneecap area or where the joint is. It's longer distance and stings/hurts, and you wont have to worry about them blocking it by raising their leg because even if they raise their leg you could still hit them with it. It also works to the inside of their kneecap.

I also like throwing ax kicks in all directions and form both legs. Sometimes it gets raised from right side and sometimes I raise it from the left. I also don't fully extend it until the end when I drop it down on them.

[Becca]

How do you get training partners?!? You are definantly talking street fighting, but not of training, right? If you are just going out and trying this on opponants out on the street, I'd have to causion you against the knee cap thing. Eventually, the cops are going to catch you fighting just for the fun of it, and crippling someone will get you lots of jail time.

Better to train safe, gain skills, and only use them for pure self defence.

[Strangler]

NO I was talking about sparring. I am not kind to my sparring partners, we go all out 100% sometimes so when they hit me hard and **** me off I unleash the furry, lol. Another move I forgot that I like to do is a low kick with the foot in a inside horizontal posision aiming straight at the knee, it's kind of like a low kick I use to set up another kick or a punch.

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by Strangler
SevenStar thinks all kicks or attacks that aren't muay thai suck I bet.

By the way, Becca ever try jumping in mid air with left low cresent kick and before you hti the opponent you just fake it and retreat your leg than come with the right high cresent kick while still in mid air to the face?

jumpy people are fun

ever have anybody sweep your feet out from underneath you while you're in the air? I love doing that.

[Becca]

That is rather fun, isn't it.:D Fancy moves are good for suprize, but little else unless you are a masicist. I believe there is a vid clip (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35208) on a current thread that ilistrates this point very nicely.;) :p

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
jumpy people are fun

ever have anybody sweep your feet out from underneath you while you're in the air? I love doing that.

I've seen and done both. And had it done to me. :mad: Depends on the opponent, the situtation, and the timeing.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Strangler
SevenStar thinks all kicks or attacks that aren't muay thai suck I bet.

dead wrong. I spent some time in karate and in longist. I love kicking in general. I do think some kicks suck though, and the crescent is one of them. I am however, a big fan of the hook kick.

Also, all of those kicks ARE in muay thai. you don't see them often because fighters have found that the kicks they have most success with are the teep, roundhouse and back kick. "crocodile whips it's tail" is a spinning hook kick. Thai boxing classifies kicks into two categories - arcing and thrusting. many kicks fall into those categories.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
jumpy people are fun

ever have anybody sweep your feet out from underneath you while you're in the air? I love doing that.

I have. Like doing it, but it sucks to be on the receiving end of it...:( :D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Strangler
what I like to do is instead of throwing a thai kick to my opponents legs I throw a cresent kick except my toes are pointed straight. I hit with the toes or the part of the foot that comes after the toe, and I do it to the side of my opponents kneecap area or where the joint is. It's longer distance and stings/hurts, and you wont have to worry about them blocking it by raising their leg because even if they raise their leg you could still hit them with it. It also works to the inside of their kneecap.

We actually use a kick similar to that in thai - go figure, huh? :rolleyes: it's more of a distraction type kick or a stop kick - not alot of power at all, but it can be enough to prevent the thigh from lifting for a kick. Our leg is bent though, and you "slap" them with the ball of your foot.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Strangler
NO I was talking about sparring. I am not kind to my sparring partners, we go all out 100% sometimes so when they hit me hard and **** me off I unleash the furry, lol.

I truly hope you meant "Unleash the fury."

You're an idiot either way, but the latter is a less objectionable mental picture.

[SevenStar]

:D

[SevenStar]

by the way, strangler - or should I say enforcer - I was wondering how long it would take you to come back. I had my suspicions, but you gave it away when you mentioned jarek.

[Strangler]

How bout a cresent kick and before the foot reaches the ground on the other side of the face you bring it back up and sidekick them in the face? 2 kciks in one.

[Strangler]

Also, all of those kicks ARE in muay thai. you don't see them often because fighters have found that the kicks they have most success with are the teep, roundhouse and back kick. "crocodile whips it's tail" is a spinning hook kick. Thai boxing classifies kicks into two categories - arcing and thrusting. many kicks fall into those categories.

than why does sanda use the side kick so often and kyoushin use the ax kick? They all do full contact I mean? Also can you describe the hook kick? Is it a kick that hits with the back of the foot?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Strangler
than why does sanda use the side kick so often and kyoushin use the ax kick? They all do full contact I mean? Also can you describe the hook kick? Is it a kick that hits with the back of the foot?

stylistic preferecne due to the nature of the fights. a roundhouse is easier to catch than a sidekick, and in san da you can throw. so, they prefer to use the harder to catch sidekick. TKD favors head level kicks in competition, so they use the axe kick with their stuff. I personally odn't know any kyokushin guys that use alot of axe kicks, so can't comment on them.

[Strangler]

In the drunken boxing vs kyoushin clip I posted they seemed to use it alot. But yea tae kwon do is more known for it. But tae kwon do is always made fun of by the full contact group for some reason and often savate, kyoushin, and sanda are made fun of as well jsut because mt is the "in" thing to do.

[Strangler]

I thought sanda uses a roundhouse as well but instead of a teep they use a sidekick?

[SevenStar]

I'm not saying they don't roundhouse. But, the preference it the sidekick, for the reason I stated.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Strangler
In the drunken boxing vs kyoushin clip I posted they seemed to use it alot. But yea tae kwon do is more known for it. But tae kwon do is always made fun of by the full contact group for some reason and often savate, kyoushin, and sanda are made fun of as well jsut because mt is the "in" thing to do.

I see you haven't changed, enforcer...

[Swordless]

I think of the hook kick as being the opposite of the roundhouse, in that the foot comes around the other direction to strike with the heel.

To quote a friend of mine on fancy jump up spinning kicks, "So you're going to launch yourself up into the air AND turn your back to me? Well, thanks for doing half of the work for me!"
I think you have to be pretty fast to pull them off.