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Strangler
01-31-2005, 12:00 AM
does anyone have any sketches or can put them online (via scanner and tinypic.com or something) of footwork or stepping drills? I know that in Park Bok Nam's book "The Fundamentals of Pa Kua Chang" there are some drills but I don't want to spend 20 bucks just for that since I already read the rest of that book and that is the only thing I care for (since I don't even train bagua or the internal).

count
01-31-2005, 07:42 AM
bagua footwork (http://kabooom.com/circle.gif)

:D :D :D

Maybe if you were more specific what your looking for. Bagua footwork is the most important thing to train if you're learning bagua. Otherwise, what's the point. I know literally hundreds of drills, training methods, etc. for applications, evasions, mechanics, speed, power, and on and on. What are you really interested in. If you really want to understand it without learning bagua, I might recommend watching how a cat walks.

Park's books might be useful if you train with him, but besides that, I wouldn't spend the money.

Strangler
01-31-2005, 04:03 PM
I'm interested in anything you got.

BAI HE
01-31-2005, 05:46 PM
http://trinity.psnw.com/~dlmurray/footdrills.html

Very general, but a good starting point.

SPJ
01-31-2005, 06:34 PM
Cool link.

Gou Bu and Bai Bu.

Strangler
02-01-2005, 01:29 AM
interesting. I am wondering if a bagua practitioner would fight in a similar fashion as he walks the circle meaning would he switch left and right foot every step or would he keep his left foot forward and right back like a boxer and only switch occasionally or to fight soughpaw?

count
02-02-2005, 07:13 AM
I am wondering if a bagua practitioner would fight in a similar fashion as he walks the circle

To put it simply, many aspects of circle walking are brought into fighting. But no, you do not always move forward, one foot in front of the other. And of course, you do not walk circles around your opponent at all times. You do however, change constantly and smoothly, the way a boxer might change from right handed style to left handed style. You may step around your opponent or through them, but training on the circle teaches that centerline is 360 degrees and not up and down the middle. And many other aspects of power, speed, agility, and change, come right from the circle walking.

The circle is the training ground. It trains the whole body including the leg/foot. A bagua fighter does not always step sequentially, as in going around a circle or in a line. The attributes gained during circle walking are numerous and they are brought into a fight.

Other training steps (as in all martial arts) include crossing forward and backward, half steps where the back foot steps only to the back of the front foot. Triangle patterns, "C" steps and others, as in the diagrams posted by Bai He. Of course, all steps (as in all martial arts) can be used for hooking, kicking, sweeping, trapping, etc.

As SPJ pointed out, ko (toe turns in) and bai (toe turns out) steps are obvious to an outsider watching bagua. The foot stays horizontal to the ground at all times. In other words, you don't push off your toe or land heel rolling to your toe. The reason is that you can easily be off balanced at the moment you do land on or lift your heel.

Instead, circle walking teaches you to lift with force from the hip area, while you are twisting inward on the circle. This is also training the spiraling power known as "luo xuan jin". Circle walking also teaches you about changing. Changing direction, speed, tempo, inside, outside, and quick changes, etc.

Bagua walking teaches the use of "tang ni bu" or mud stepping. In addition to the foot staying horizontal with the ground, you step lightly and carefully as if you were walking in mud to avoid slipping. Each step you grip the ground with your toes in coordination with other internal aspects which I won't get into here, since they don't involve the foot. You should imagine that your back foot has sunken into the mud and must be lifted with a bit of force to break the suction that has formed around it. Different ideas come from different teachers about other details, but in general, training is done in a 70-30 weight distribution.

Knees remain flexed and loose. All the joints twist inward. Each step is folding and unfolding the kua area, which is the area around the waist/hips/groin. This opening and closing of the joints and kua are part of the internal power issues of bagua. Once you learn to walk the circle, this just becomes your habit.

I hope this helps. I might be able to dig up some diagrams or photo's to match these descriptions if you can't imagine what I'm saying.

SPJ
02-02-2005, 08:31 AM
Excellent post.

count
02-03-2005, 10:46 AM
Thank you SPJ. I thought this would make sense to you coming from your background. But I wonder if it makes sense to people with little or no knowledge of bagua, or the way CMA are taught in China, Taiwan and the rest of the far east?

SPJ
02-03-2005, 07:48 PM
It is very difficult to appreciate all the ins and outs in the beginning.

And yes, it will be tough for any other MA people to grasp everything right away.

I myself was taught to do the steps for a couple of months in a straight line then figure 8 and circle. And then randomly.

I was confused all the time. I was told to focus on the lead hand and your steps follow.

The next step for me is to stand with 8 big palm forms for 25 min. Zhan Zhuang.

There are also standing practice with Green Dragon extending claws. Qing Long Tang Zhua.

Even though I know about Yi Fu -> Gong Bao Tien Ba Gua.

I was taught Cheng Ting Hua Ba Gua.

SPJ
02-03-2005, 07:53 PM
I grew up in Taiwan.

However, most of my teachers are from mainland China that migrated to Taiwan along with the Nationalist government in 1949.

I learned a lot of stories and legends.

However, I have never been to China.

All things I know about China are from hearsay and reading.

I only know about the proper or original training methods.

I am not aware of other new ways of training in China or south east Asia.

Brad
02-03-2005, 08:42 PM
I've got instructional videos of Kang Ge Wu from mainland China(from http://www.plumpub.com), and your descriptions fit pretty much perfectly with the stuff he shows.

count
02-03-2005, 09:01 PM
SPJ,
Well, you may be one of the few people here who have met my Grandmaster. You might be interested in this clip someone posted on another forum. It's a television interview with Liu Yun Qaio talking about Baji (I think). I'm not sure of the date, but it seems to be about 30 years ago. If you look close where he's correcting a student's stance, you can see my Sifu standing behind him. Since he moved to the US around 71, I put the clip before than.

Grandmaster Liu Yun Qaio (http://mleng.com/baji_association/library/liuyunchyau.WMV)

BAI HE
02-03-2005, 10:04 PM
Great post Count. Big hats off.

The circle walking teaches stability at ALL angles in all movements.

SPJ
02-04-2005, 08:37 AM
Thanks for link.

That brought tears to my eyes and memories.

We are indebted to many great teachers from the past.

Say hello to your teacher and everyone in your school.

Warmest Regards.

count
02-04-2005, 08:45 AM
You come and say hello yourself! :p

LOL, just kidding around, I'll pass on your regards. One of these days, I'm going to get you over there though. ;)